Stunning Arrest Made in Milwaukee

[waggy]

Aside from this being yet another fanatical muslim...The"machine" gun was procured via FBI informants. It is highly unlikely that he was able to obtain the first one on his own - provided it was truly automatic to begin with.

that's one my issues. Did he have the "machine gun" before the FBI got involved or did they give it to him? and is it a real "machine gun"?

I would guess if the FBI gave it to him it was full auto. IF he got it before i question if the news has it right.

While legal to have a Fully auto gun. It's very hard and expensive. so i have my doubts on someone getting one without a ton of trouble. Also the news has made many mistakes when dealing with guns in the past.

 

[cbrunny]

Who has defended him?

If you can't figure out who is defending this guy just by reading these comments, you are probably among those that are defending them.

Either that or you're just dumb fuck stupid as shit.

 

[Sulaco]

I still contend that, legally, you can't really prosecute someone for something that they haven't done--am I wrong

Uh...yes. Yes you are.

It's called Conspiracy to murder

And it's not limited specifically to murder. Conspiracy laws can cover a wide range of illegal acts.

Under most U.S. laws, for a person to be convicted of conspiracy, not only must he or she agree to commit a crime, but at least one of the conspirators must commit an overt act (the actus reus) in furtherance of the crime. However, in United States v. Shabani the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that this "overt act" element is not required under the federal drug conspiracy statute, 21 U.S.C. section 846.

So saying, basically, "I want to murder at least 30 people in the temple to strike fear in the hearts of the West", and then planning your getaway after doing it, and then buying the gun you'd like to do it with, kinda falls in line there.

I mean...really?

 

[Genx87]

I hear what you're saying, but if you find out someone is plotting to go to Isreal and kill people (or whatever else) then what else do you do?

Wait around until the threat is real? Or is it more effective to let the person hang themselves (provided plenty of self-incriminating rope)in a 'plot' that's under control and not likely to go 'fast and furious' on you?

I personally just don't buy that anyone but someone who probably well deserves attention of some kind from law enforcement is *ever* going to be unfairly entrapped in such things because most people aren't raving loons that would go anywhere near plots to kill a bunch of other people, fake or not.

If they have credible evidence he was plotting to attack Israel why the need to provide him with logistics and weapons to attack in Milwaukee? That is where they lose me on these busts. It always starts with some loner that FBI informants befriend. Then they head down the path to attack together with the FBI providing everything, sometimes including the idea itself.

As for this attack on Israel. If it were credible they should be able to charge with that crime.

I guess we have to wait and see what they will release for public consumption and not hide behind state secrets.

 

[PliotronX]

Semi-auto is way better than full auto. You waste all your bullets with full auto, and then you have to waste time reloading, and aiming again.

True.

 

[Homerboy]

*sigh*
So many idiots.

 

[zinfamous]

If you can't figure out who is defending this guy just by reading these comments, you are probably among those that are defending them.

Either that or you're just dumb fuck stupid as shit.

you're probably confusing me for someone defending him.

I'm not.

I would submit that this makes you dumb fuck stupid as shit.

 

[werepossum]

Aside from this being yet another fanatical muslim...The"machine" gun was procured via FBI informants. It is highly unlikely that he was able to obtain the first one on his own - provided it was truly automatic to begin with.

Two points here. First, ISIS provided automatic weapons for the Paris attack, and France has much more restrictive gun laws than do we. Second, they could also have carried out the attacks with civilian semi automatic rifles. Or shotguns. Or homemade bombs.

I think Zinfamous makes a good point about the FBI (and BATFE, etc.) helping grow terrorists. But these agencies aren't necessary for terrorists.

Uh...yes. Yes you are.

It's called Conspiracy to murder

And it's not limited specifically to murder. Conspiracy laws can cover a wide range of illegal acts.

So saying, basically, "I want to murder at least 30 people in the temple to strike fear in the hearts of the West", and then planning your getaway after doing it, and then buying the gun you'd like to do it with, kinda falls in line there.

I mean...really?

Exactly, and well put. It would be the height of stupidity to render ourselves unable to prosecute for intent, especially for a cult enthralled by suicide murders. It's a more difficult conviction, of course, as it should be.

 

[zinfamous]

Uh...yes. Yes you are.

It's called Conspiracy to murder

And it's not limited specifically to murder. Conspiracy laws can cover a wide range of illegal acts.



So saying, basically, "I want to murder at least 30 people in the temple to strike fear in the hearts of the West", and then planning your getaway after doing it, and then buying the gun you'd like to do it with, kinda falls in line there.

I mean...really?

Interesting. I assumed that something like this must exist, certainly today, but I imagine that it is a very difficult thing to prosecute. You can understand that my concern runs along the lines of "thought crime" or "future crime," which isn't something that we should be engaging in.

Of course there is precedent when you have verified murder cults running around. At the same time, projecting claims of "I do this for ISIS!" is a difficult arena to investigate with real certainty. It sounds easy to simply enforce a blanket statute that takes all claims of ISIS support as serious claims of intent at this point, but I also think that rather dangerously ignores the simple fact that many spoiled suburbanite teenagers are just going to angst like they always do. It seems that some of them are and will continue to be very serious about it, but I would think that it is a very minimal percentage.

 

[Zaap]

If they have credible evidence he was plotting to attack Israel why the need to provide him with logistics and weapons to attack in Milwaukee? That is where they lose me on these busts. It always starts with some loner that FBI informants befriend. Then they head down the path to attack together with the FBI providing everything, sometimes including the idea itself.

As for this attack on Israel. If it were credible they should be able to charge with that crime.

I guess we have to wait and see what they will release for public consumption and not hide behind state secrets.

I'm guessing:

So prosecutors don't wind up in a courtroom with their dicks in their hand a judge telling them:
"Uh... these choirboys had backpacks and rice cookers. GTFO of my courtroom."

"Uh... they had boxcutters. That's not a crime. GTFO of my courtroom."

Anyone got any *actual* workable idea how you nail a terrorism suspect before they kill a bunch of people, without letting them actually get hands on anything lethal, or actually committing an act of terror which as I said no legit LEA will ever allow to happen?

It ain't as easy as all the armchair crime fighters make it out to be apparently.

Stings are an obvious tool that are among the only way your gonna nail people before the fact. I personally have no problem with anyone hanging themselves on an FBI provided rope that was planning on committing mass murder.

 

[HomerJS]

Liberal views that everyone should be welcomed into the nation

Liberal views - welcome everyone except criminals.

Conservative views - Welcome everyone with white skin. Brown skin, eh, maybe, maybe not.

 

[BoberFett]

The whole thing sounds fishy to me. I'm in agreement with those who get tired of the government laying out juicy traps for people. Yes, this guy took the bait when he shouldn't have, and certainly sounds like an unstable person. But if federal agents hadn't offered to supply him with a machine gun, would he have gone out of his way to find one on his own? We'll never know, because these agencies can't just find a potential crime and watch to see what happens, they have to get involved and push the deal forward themselves so they can make a splashy headline. That's not what law enforcement should be about.

 

[Subyman]

The whole thing sounds fishy to me. I'm in agreement with those who get tired of the government laying out juicy traps for people. Yes, this guy took the bait when he shouldn't have, and certainly sounds like an unstable person. But if federal agents hadn't offered to supply him with a machine gun, would he have gone out of his way to find one on his own? We'll never know, because these agencies can't just find a potential crime and watch to see what happens, they have to get involved and push the deal forward themselves so they can make a splashy headline. That's not what law enforcement should be about.

I tend to agree with this. I think people can go through strange circumstances through their life and have phases of poor judgement. A lot of times not being able to act on those impulses is the only thing stopping someone from doing something they regret. I don't think the feds should be in the business of making it easier for someone to act on their impulses just so they can arrest them. Who knows, if this guy hadn't been offered guns (and likely emotionally engineered into buying them), he may have talked himself out of it over time or met someone he loved, etc etc. Life could have happened to get him out of his dark hole.

The feds snooping around to look for red flags is great and they should watch those individuals, but baiting them is questionable IMO.

 

[Victorian Gray]

If you can't figure out who is defending this guy just by reading these comments, you are probably among those that are defending them.

Either that or you're just dumb fuck stupid as shit.

Or, you have a reading comprehension issue.

 

[WelshBloke]

Mass murder was planned in my hometown. The shooter had procured a machine gun. In an utterly shocking moment, it was discovered that the man was using his Islamic religion as the basis for this attack.

Thought that you said that it didn't concern you and that we shouldn't do anything about it?

 

[michal1980]

I tend to agree with this. I think people can go through strange circumstances through their life and have phases of poor judgement. A lot of times not being able to act on those impulses is the only thing stopping someone from doing something they regret. I don't think the feds should be in the business of making it easier for someone to act on their impulses just so they can arrest them. Who knows, if this guy hadn't been offered guns (and likely emotionally engineered into buying them), he may have talked himself out of it over time or met someone he loved, etc etc. Life could have happened to get him out of his dark hole.

The feds snooping around to look for red flags is great and they should watch those individuals, but baiting them is questionable IMO.

how did they bait him?

Guy - I want to buy a machine gun
FBI Guy - Ok we can get you one
Guy- heres some money.

That's baiting?

Emotional Engineering? Just stop making up excuses for criminals. If this guy wasn't going to shot up someone, he wouldn't be buying guns to shot them up.

 

[michal1980]

Or, you have a reading comprehension issue.

or you and your ilk have a history of defending criminals.

 

[Texashiker]

Liberal views - welcome everyone except criminals.

Where are the background checks?

Efforts to tighten checks were defeated.

 

[purbeast0]

only on AT will you find people who think busting a terrorist plot for mass murder was a bad thing.

 

[Texashiker]

only on AT will you find people who think busting a terrorist plot for mass murder was a bad thing.

Not a bad thing at all.

Liberals tolerance is coming home to roost. What happens when the tolerant come face to face with the intolerant?

At least conservatives do not fly planes into buildings, bomb marathons, go on mass shooting sprees in the name of religion, or attempt a shooting spree when someone draws a picture of jesus.

 

[MongGrel]

Not a bad thing at all.

Liberals tolerance is coming home to roost. What happens when the tolerant come face to face with the intolerant?

At least conservatives do not fly planes into buildings, bomb marathons, go on mass shooting sprees in the name of religion, or attempt a shooting spree when someone draws a picture of jesus.

Nah, they just start wars in the name of religion because they want to be a "War President"



Why mess around on a small scale when you can do "Shock and Awe".

()

 

[MongGrel]

or you and your elk have a history of defending criminals.

An elk is an animal, I take it you were going for ilk.

But who would expect otherwise, you seem to know no better of course.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2459421&page=49

 

[Victorian Gray]

or you and your elk have a history of defending criminals.

Sorry, don't own an elk. You must have me confused with someone else.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I would like proof it was a real machine gun and not just a semi-auto..because that would be one of the first times it has happened. also they are against the law to have1

what does it matter if its against the law? That has no bearing on if it was a real machine gun! Drugs are against the law -- but people use them.....I am just saying...think before you speak...

 

[Blanky]

Mass murder was planned in my hometown. The shooter had procured a machine gun. In an utterly shocking moment, it was discovered that the man was using his Islamic religion as the basis for this attack.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/01/2...n-accused-planning-masonic-temple-attack.html

Not a real muslim! Islam is all about spreading peace, so there's no way he was a real muslim!