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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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No reason he gives will ever be able fully explain it to those of us who are sane and rational, I'm afraid.

I'm still sticking with the 'random violence' act for now as most likely.

But I do think there's a possibility that if this family had to flee Chechnya because of violence, with all the terrorism and Putin oppression, that it's quite plausible that as kids these men were traumatized in a way that contributed to their being more susceptible to something like this - analogous to the way that a child being molested makes it far more likely they will become a molestor. 'Cycle of violence' type stuff.

Politically, many people react with fury to this sort of thing, in a 'how DARE you suggest ANYTHING sympathetic to these monsters' type reaction, but IMO, it's often the truth, as unsatisfying as it is to people to have their desire to think it's just some sort of mysterious 'monster syndrome' that can't POSSIBLY have the perpetrators be victims in any way.

But sticking with the molesting analogy, it can often be a sad story of multiple victims, victims becoming perpetrators.

Even if you look at our jails with violent criminals, there's a reason so many have mental problems and come from homes with problems and so on. It doesn't excuse, but it makes it more complicated.

What these guys did is totally inexcusable, but it would help to understand what makes it more likely for people to do something like this - which can often include a legitimate wrong done to them. It helps to appreciate more fully the harm of things like violence, like a Chechnya - we see a bit of it with PTSD among troops, but how much worse can it be for civilian populations?

Terrorsts so often come from opressed populations - you have a hard case to make to preach about the 'sanctity of life' to them when they are treated so badly.

This could apply to a cycle like Israel and Palestinians also - you're not just asking Palestinians to treat Israelis nicely, but asking them to treat oppressors nicely, and that's not easy - and a bit ironic given that Israel themselves has a special reason for a passion for security given their own history of being oppressed, including mass murder.

And even THOSE perpetrators of mass violence - the Germans of WWII - trace a lot of THEIR hatred and desire to oppress to their own horrible treatment and situation when they were in stravation following very harsh sanctions put on them for World War I by the allied powers who won, where Germans largely blamed 'the Jews' for their horrible treatment. Cycle of violence type stuff.
 
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Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
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Look at this thread, no wonder American media thrives....

No one seems to be talking about 24 people killed in Iraq bombing yesterday.....
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Look at this thread, no wonder American media thrives....

No one seems to be talking about 24 people killed in Iraq bombing yesterday.....

Careful, you can get an infraction for mentioning any other issue to compare about the media coverage. But you're right, people don't care about that, sadly.
 

SphinxnihpS

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2005
8,368
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Side question - how can the police enter homes to search for this guy without asking? They're legitimately breaking into houses if no one answers the door.

Because the Constitution only prohibits unreasonable searches. It's a good question. What are you doing here?
 
Feb 6, 2007
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Look at this thread, no wonder American media thrives....

No one seems to be talking about 24 people killed in Iraq bombing yesterday.....

I like that people keep bringing this up as though it's somehow shocking. Pop quiz; 100 people die in a suicide bombing in Afghanistan the same day your wife is killed by a drunk driver. Which one do you care more about?

Tragedy has more to do with personal impact than scale. It impacts us more as Americans when a tragic event happens here than when it happens overseas, even if the death count in the overseas event is higher.
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
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Careful, you can get an infraction for mentioning any other issue to compare about the media coverage. But you're right, people don't care about that, sadly.

Just typical American media hysteria.

For god sakes they shut down the entire city? ROTFLMAO

WOW

What does that accomplish exactly? I love the way America deals with this sort of thing.....

don't get me wrong, what happened was HORRIBLE

I like that people keep bringing this up as though it's somehow shocking. Pop quiz; 100 people die in a suicide bombing in Afghanistan the same day your wife is killed by a drunk driver. Which one do you care more about?

Tragedy has more to do with personal impact than scale. It impacts us more as Americans when a tragic event happens here than when it happens overseas, even if the death count in the overseas event is higher.

Yes, it's called arrogance

I don't buy what you said AT ALL

No one seems to give a shit about 10s of murder victims in Boston this year alone.

Or how about "9/11" scale of traffic deaths EVERY MONTH due to our shitty driver education system and poor License requirements?

Meh
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
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I like that people keep bringing this up as though it's somehow shocking. Pop quiz; 100 people die in a suicide bombing in Afghanistan the same day your wife is killed by a drunk driver. Which one do you care more about?

Tragedy has more to do with personal impact than scale. It impacts us more as Americans when a tragic event happens here than when it happens overseas, even if the death count in the overseas event is higher.

Actually, this whole Boston thing doesn't affect me much more at all than the bombings in Afghanistan - maybe even less in ways.

I'm afraid the 'impact' argument is sort of circular, when 'impact' is higher because you care more to an extreme about what happens in your country, because it's 'more impact'...

People have often compared the British press that pays a lot more attention to other countries' news.

It's actually a bit of a shock to a lot of Americans to read a British newspaper and see all kinds of 'in Malaysia' and 'in Kenya' type of stories as if they had any importance.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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Yes, it's called arrogance

I don't buy what you said AT ALL

No one seems to give a shit about 10s of murder victims in Boston this year alone.

Or how about "9/11" scale of traffic deaths EVERY MONTH due to our shitty driver education system and poor License requirements?

Meh

You're comparing one-time events to ongoing problems, which, inadvertently brings us back to your example of the bombing in Baghdad. When the war was fresh, we got updates on progress constantly on every news station. And then public opinion soured and we got wallowed in quagmire and we started to feel like all these war updates were just the same old thing. We stopped caring. We didn't need to see which Americans died today unless they were from our town. And that fatigue over coverage of the war is why we don't really care that there was another explosion in Iraq.

Similarly, we don't care about every traffic accident that happens because they happen every single day by the thousands. We can't keep up with that; all the stories start to look the same. But a terrorist attack? That's an isolated incident. That happens once every few months in this country tops (if you include mass shootings), and usually it isn't even in a major city like New York or Boston. No one here knew where Newtown or Aurora or Clackamas was before some horrible tragedy hit them. It's singular events, horrifying tragedies, that pique interest, and the bigger the media market, the better. You honestly have to ask why a terrorist attack and manhunt that has shut down the 10th largest city in the country is bigger news than another bomb in a country halfway across the world that is actively at war?
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,365
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It's not. Just seems likely. Did they have anything in their history a background check would have blocked their buying guns? Did they buy any? Did they steal any that wouldn't have been available to steal with stronger measures? We don't know for sure at this point. It sounds likely they got guns by killing the officer and taking his.

Eric Holder and Obama were trying to make it easier for immigrants to buy guns. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...r-push-to-loosen-alien-gun-sales-restrictions

Did their efforts succeed?
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
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BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
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Breitbart.com is less credible than the NY Post.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...fe-ruined-him-and-now-he-gets-100-000/273841/

Only rightwing nutjobs read that bullshit. Take it away from this thread, you fucking idiot.

You are a worthless troll. Here's the government report, http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201210&RIN=1140-AA44 If you weren't a complete idiot you would have read the source.

The Atlantic. LOL. You are nothing but a mindless hypocrite. Could you be any stupider?
 
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preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,754
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You are a worthless troll. Here's the government report, http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201210&RIN=1140-AA44 You lying half wit. If you weren't a complete idiot you would have read the source.

The Atlantic. LOL. You are nothing but a mindless hypocrite. Could you be any stupider?

If you knew anything about evaluating sources, then yes, you'd know that the Atlantic has far more credibility than Breitbart.

Conor Friedersdorf, the writer of the Atlantic piece, is a conservative.

The Brietbart piece has no reporting attached to it. They don't actually ask the DOJ why the rule was changed or who decided to make it. Do you honestly think that either Holder or Obama changed were behind the decision to change the rule?
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,754
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The article was accurate and cited it's source. You are just a lying troll.

It presents one webpage as evidence and gives no reporting to establish why that webpage was published. That webpage does not support the headline: " Obama, HolderPush to Loosen Gun Sale Restrictions—for Legal Immigrants"

That is an obvious lie. If you weren't an idiotic wingnut, you'd have caught it.
 
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nf4m

Member
Apr 19, 2013
52
0
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Those guys are at all major sporting events.

hardly. local law enforcement sure. but certainly not to the level eyewitnesses saw that day:

http://www.local15tv.com/mostpopula...Spotters-on-Roofs/BrirjAzFPUKKN8z6eSDJEA.cspx

not to mention those unidentified contractors spotted working with the FBI shortly after bombings. the same ones who left the vicinity of the blast before they detonated.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2013/04/contractors-at-boston-marathon-stood.html
 
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TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
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hardly. local law enforcement sure. but certainly not to the level eyewitnesses saw that day:

http://www.local15tv.com/mostpopula...Spotters-on-Roofs/BrirjAzFPUKKN8z6eSDJEA.cspx

not to mention those unidentified contractors spotted working with the FBI shortly after bombings. the same ones who left the vicinity of the blast before they detonated.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2013/04/contractors-at-boston-marathon-stood.html

Lmao. That post is more insane than the two bombers.

Professional EOD personnel wouldn't be standing anywhere near homemade explosives, even if they were a part of some nefarious conspiracy. And those are just random civilians with arrows on their head.
 

AustinInDallas

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2012
1,127
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www.amitelerad.com

Wyndru

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2009
7,318
4
76

He created an account to tell everyone that suspect #1 was questioned in 2011 by the FBI for extremist activity.

What he didn't mention is that it was request of a foreign government (that they have not named) that put him through that questioning, and it was quickly dismissed.
 

Demo24

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
8,356
9
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Will the FBI acknowledge who these contractors are standing right beside the blast vicinity? They moved away shortly before the blasts.

http://imgur.com/GxPt4Lk

and then reappeared working with the FBI during the cleanup process (blast vinicity and same contractors can be seen in the bottom of photo 1):

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2013/04/contractors-at-boston-marathon-stood.html


They are CST, civilian support team, going to be at more or less all events like this. That is their standard wear.
 
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