Study says self-esteem soars in religious teens

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

They get into the real world and cant handle it. How the real world is and what they exepected the real world to be like are often the exact opposite.

I'm preparing my children for the "real world" by giving them love and encouragement and sending them to a religious school that provides a nurturing environment and reinforces the values they learn at home and at church.

How do you plan on preparing your children for the "real world"?

I plan to prepare my children for the real world by allowing them to choose their own religious beliefs without pressure from parents or schools. Religious schools are places where you can get assistance in cramming narrowminded religious beliefs down your children's throats. I know, I went to one for 6 years simply because it was the best school around. But lucky for me my parents encouraged me to think for myself, because that school did their best to make me believe exactly what they thought I should believe. I would rather have my kids go to a worse school as long as they aren't subjected to that crap. Maybe you're kids want to be religious, and if so, then that's ok. But what if they don't want to be? I doubt that wonderful school would be so nurturing. If there is one main reason I'm not religious, it's the school where I spent 6 years dealing with closeminded and arrogant people who thought that being religious not only made them better than other people, but gave them the right to tell me how I should live my life.

Sorry, but I think kids freedom to make their own decisions about religion is important enough to risk worse schools. Because if you force your beliefs about religion on them, how are they going to make any other choices in the "real world"?

 

[lebe0024]

Even the idea of "self-esteem" is a contridiction of the gospel. Any Christian who says that the gospel improves there self-esteem doesn't understand the gospel. The whole point of the gospel is to be drawn away from yourself and towards Christ.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: lebe0024
Even the idea of "self-esteem" is a contridiction of the gospel. Any Christian who says that the gospel improves there self-esteem doesn't understand the gospel. The whole point of the gospel is to be drawn away from yourself and towards Christ.

I disagree.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

They get into the real world and cant handle it. How the real world is and what they exepected the real world to be like are often the exact opposite.

I'm preparing my children for the "real world" by giving them love and encouragement and sending them to a religious school that provides a nurturing environment and reinforces the values they learn at home and at church.

How do you plan on preparing your children for the "real world"?

same, sans the religious part

 

[0roo0roo]

religious people are more likely to lie about their self esteem since they spend their time lying about how certain they are of their certainty. 🙂

you know what really raises self esteem?

belief in racial superiority🙂 look at what it did for the nazis🙂


and u must be kidding if you believe studies that aren't supported by the scientific community. people with agendas find ways to support their beliefs anyway they can. peer review? oversight? naw.....


have you learned nothing from things like political ads? if it says "funded by the people for the equitable treatment of agricultural workers" or something its probably run by the tobacco companies or something instead.


u gotta be niave.

 

[PowerEngineer]

Let me put it like this. Everything is about perception.

Suppose a mother has two children, Alice and Bob. The mother loves both children

Now Alice believes her mother loves her. Alice's self esteem is better that it would have been if she did not believe that. I doubt there is much controversy there.

Now Bob believes his mother does not. Everything else being equal, PERCEIVING that he is loved less lowers his self esteem. K?

Hayabusrider, let's add another fact: that the mother does not love either Alice or Bob. 🙁

So who is better off? I'll agree Alice probably has higher self esteem, but it is due to an incorrect perception. Bob may have lower self-esteem, but it's because he has a more accurate perception of the facts. I suppose some people would prefer to be Alice. Not me, I'd rather be Bob.

I'm not surprised that some teenagers find reassurance in a religion that promises to answer all life's tough questions for them, that guarantees that all good will be rewarded and evil punished (after death), and that they will live forever. And I'd expect them to be happier and have higher self-esteem (as one of God's creatures) -- at least until they come up against a situation that forces them to reevaluate their beliefs.

Sorry...Santa Claus is not real either.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
religious people are more likely to lie about their self esteem since they spend their time lying about how certain they are of their certainty. 🙂

you know what really raises self esteem?

belief in racial superiority🙂 look at what it did for the nazis🙂


and u must be kidding if you believe studies that aren't supported by the scientific community. people with agendas find ways to support their beliefs anyway they can. peer review? oversight? naw.....


have you learned nothing from things like political ads? if it says "funded by the people for the equitable treatment of agricultural workers" or something its probably run by the tobacco companies or something instead.


u gotta be niave.

i don't really see this as supporting any agenda.... so some people need some religion to feel good about themselves... big deal. not my problem.

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Riprorin

They get into the real world and cant handle it. How the real world is and what they exepected the real world to be like are often the exact opposite.

I'm preparing my children for the "real world" by giving them love and encouragement and sending them to a religious school that provides a nurturing environment and reinforces the values they learn at home and at church.

How do you plan on preparing your children for the "real world"?

same, sans the religious part

Exactly.

 

[silverpig]

Religion can definitely be a good thing. But then again, so can morphine...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Let me put it like this. Everything is about perception. Suppose a mother has two children, Alice and Bob. The mother loves both children Now Alice believes her mother loves her. Alice's self esteem is better that it would have been if she did not believe that. I doubt there is much controversy there. Now Bob believes his mother does not. Everything else being equal, PERCEIVING that he is loved less lowers his self esteem. K?

except atheists don't perceive that, by definition. but you're really missing the point. you wrote:

Could it be that because they think God loves them and that being worth being loved improves self esteem?

and my question to you is this.... if being loved by god is something that everybody gets, how can it possibly *improve* self esteem? saying htat god loves you is like saying nothing, if god truly does love everybody. how can you derive self-esteem from something that is common to everyone? maybe it's just me, but i pity the person who gets their self-esteem from being the status quo.

Going back to the mother analogy, if you believe your parent loves your siblings the same as you, do you feel less worthy for it? The point is not that EVERY person who believes in God always has higher self esteem than EVERY athiest or agnostic, but if the world is crap and you believe you are loved by someone unconditionally, then you are better off ego wise than someone who believes NO ONE loves them, therefore I am not suprised the average self esteem level is higher.

 

[gopunk]

Going back to the mother analogy, if you believe your parent loves your siblings the same as you, do you feel less worthy for it?

the question is not whether you lose self-esteem, but whether somebody else gains it. at least that's what i took the word "improve" to mean... usually when you say "improve" you don't mean "not worsen".

The point is not that EVERY person who believes in God always has higher self esteem than EVERY athiest or agnostic, but if the world is crap and you believe you are loved by someone unconditionally, then you are better off ego wise than someone who believes NO ONE loves them, therefore I am not suprised the average self esteem level is higher.

which makes no sense if god really does love everyone. i don't see how your ego can be better from something that makes you the same as everyone else.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Going back to the mother analogy, if you believe your parent loves your siblings the same as you, do you feel less worthy for it?

the question is not whether you lose self-esteem, but whether somebody else gains it. at least that's what i took the word "improve" to mean... usually when you say "improve" you don't mean "not worsen".

The point is not that EVERY person who believes in God always has higher self esteem than EVERY athiest or agnostic, but if the world is crap and you believe you are loved by someone unconditionally, then you are better off ego wise than someone who believes NO ONE loves them, therefore I am not suprised the average self esteem level is higher.

which makes no sense if god really does love everyone. i don't see how your ego can be better from something that makes you the same as everyone else.

I must be expressing myself badly.

 

[Ryan]

It's just because they have yet to accept the fact that when they die, they will never exist again. Once you come to that realization, life just seems kinda depressing 😉

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: rbloedow
It's just because they have yet to accept the fact that when they die, they will never exist again. Once you come to that realization, life just seems kinda depressing 😉

Do you really believe that? Once your dead, poof, that's it?

Man.. how depressing. I mean, seriously. Why would you want to think like that? To me, it's the same thing as perhaps, puffing away on your cigarette, with the mentality of "Who cares, everyone dies eventually". WTF? That's certainly no way to live your life.

Since nobody really knows, it is best to keep an open mind. That way of thinking is pessimistic.. It's not positive.

A positive attitude is important in anybodys life, nomatter what they believe in.

We have more evidence supporting that there is *something* after death, rather than there is not. When you have thousands of people saying virtually the same thing about death, you have th open your eyes a little.

 

[maddog2030]

Originally posted by: ed21x

there aren't any factual evidence disproving it either. my point is, be open to all possibilities. the absents of evidence does not prove the absents of event.

True, but think along the lines of Occam's razor. There's really no sense in making half-baked claims if there's no reason to believe them. There's literally an infinite number of possible realities. Are you open to all of them? Have you considered all religions? How many have you disproved?

My point is, it's silly to imply that lack of disproof, while not explicitly expected in a situation, gives any credibility to a claim. It makes much more sense to start from the bottom up (atheism - lack of belief in gods) rather than the top down (theist).

</rant>

 

[maddog2030]

Originally posted by: Eli

Do you really believe that? Once your dead, poof, that's it?

Man.. how depressing. I mean, seriously. Why would you want to think like that? To me, it's the same thing as perhaps, puffing away on your cigarette, with the mentality of "Who cares, everyone dies eventually". WTF? That's certainly no way to live your life.

Since nobody really knows, it is best to keep an open mind. That way of thinking is pessimistic.. It's not positive.

A positive attitude is important in anybodys life, nomatter what they believe in.

We have more evidence supporting that there is *something* after death, rather than there is not. When you have thousands of people saying virtually the same thing about death, you have th open your eyes a little.

What exactly have these thousands of people been saying? What are their observations based on? Do not underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups (thank you, ThinkGeek 🙂).

I believe when we die, yes, "poof, that's it." But I don't see how its necessarily pessimistic. It gives me incentive to know I only have one shot at bettering the world and enjoying life, so I better do my best to achieve that. Perhaps I'm not shallow enough for expecting some type of reward for my deeds (or maybe I am 🙂). People can take it pessimistically, but I'm guessing those are probably the same people who believe they need some afterlife or metaphysical realm to give meaning to their lives.

 

[SWScorch]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: rbloedow
It's just because they have yet to accept the fact that when they die, they will never exist again. Once you come to that realization, life just seems kinda depressing 😉

Do you really believe that? Once your dead, poof, that's it?

Man.. how depressing. I mean, seriously. Why would you want to think like that? To me, it's the same thing as perhaps, puffing away on your cigarette, with the mentality of "Who cares, everyone dies eventually". WTF? That's certainly no way to live your life.

Since nobody really knows, it is best to keep an open mind. That way of thinking is pessimistic.. It's not positive.

A positive attitude is important in anybodys life, nomatter what they believe in.

We have more evidence supporting that there is *something* after death, rather than there is not. When you have thousands of people saying virtually the same thing about death, you have th open your eyes a little.

I firmly believe that once we die, we are gone forever. I find it far from depressing however. This means that I should make the most out of my life, and for that reason, I embrace the philosophy of living life to its fullest. carpe Diem. If this is the only life we've got, we better enjoy it, right? Which is exactly why I hate it when people tell me HOW I should live my life. I may not agree with your beliefs, but dammit, I assume that you, like me, want to enjoy life, so I will try my hardest not to shove my beliefs down your throat, which is more than I can say about most Christians (and all people of religion for that matter)

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider

Originally posted by: gopunk

Going back to the mother analogy, if you believe your parent loves your siblings the same as you, do you feel less worthy for it?

the question is not whether you lose self-esteem, but whether somebody else gains it. at least that's what i took the word "improve" to mean... usually when you say "improve" you don't mean "not worsen".

The point is not that EVERY person who believes in God always has higher self esteem than EVERY athiest or agnostic, but if the world is crap and you believe you are loved by someone unconditionally, then you are better off ego wise than someone who believes NO ONE loves them, therefore I am not suprised the average self esteem level is higher.

which makes no sense if god really does love everyone. i don't see how your ego can be better from something that makes you the same as everyone else.

I must be expressing myself badly.

Naw, you're doing fine.

Summary of hayabusa's idea:

It's not the love of God that increases your self esteem. It's the belief in that love. Whether or not it exists is beside the point. That's basically it.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: rbloedow
It's just because they have yet to accept the fact that when they die, they will never exist again. Once you come to that realization, life just seems kinda depressing 😉

Do you really believe that? Once your dead, poof, that's it?

Man.. how depressing. I mean, seriously. Why would you want to think like that? To me, it's the same thing as perhaps, puffing away on your cigarette, with the mentality of "Who cares, everyone dies eventually". WTF? That's certainly no way to live your life.

Since nobody really knows, it is best to keep an open mind. That way of thinking is pessimistic.. It's not positive.

A positive attitude is important in anybodys life, nomatter what they believe in.

We have more evidence supporting that there is *something* after death, rather than there is not. When you have thousands of people saying virtually the same thing about death, you have th open your eyes a little.

yup, but depressing is also wasting your life believing the wrong faith😛 there are so many. you can close your mind to that possibility, but i don't see how rationally😛

open mind is the best in any case. basically agnostic belief.

why worry about what happens after death if you live a good life? unless you think that god is an evil spiteful biatch, then in that case why believe at all🙂

worry about this life, too many people on earth waste time worrying about the next while people in this one suffer.

 

[gopunk]

Naw, you're doing fine.

Summary of hayabusa's idea:

It's not the love of God that increases your self esteem. It's the belief in that love. Whether or not it exists is beside the point. That's basically it.

i don't think i ever doubted that was his intended message... obviously your self esteem can't be improved if you are altogether unaware of it. but why would it improve if you are aware of it? it is nothing special if he loves everyone.

 

[DanTMWTMP]

Originally posted by: BatmanNate
Don't confuse self esteem with a superiority complex.

🙂

all i'll say is this...

ignorance is bliss!!!! ----> religion is happiness....

ahhaha so yeah, when u don't knw that ur cousin died..u'll be happy....ignorance is truly bliss...

 

[Riprorin]

I plan to prepare my children for the real world by allowing them to choose their own religious beliefs without pressure from parents or schools. Religious schools are places where you can get assistance in cramming narrowminded religious beliefs down your children's throats. I know, I went to one for 6 years simply because it was the best school around. But lucky for me my parents encouraged me to think for myself, because that school did their best to make me believe exactly what they thought I should believe. I would rather have my kids go to a worse school as long as they aren't subjected to that crap. Maybe you're kids want to be religious, and if so, then that's ok. But what if they don't want to be? I doubt that wonderful school would be so nurturing. If there is one main reason I'm not religious, it's the school where I spent 6 years dealing with closeminded and arrogant people who thought that being religious not only made them better than other people, but gave them the right to tell me how I should live my life.

Sorry, to hear you had such a miserable experience at your school. Fortunately, my children are thrilled with the school they attend and are thriving intellectually and socially.

I guess we have some differences of opinion about parenting. Maybe you'll feel different when you're a parent youself.

I believe that the person a child will become is shaped by the parent's influence during the adolescent years. Parents must provide the necessary instruction, guidance, training and example which are fundamental for the child's development.

For me, a large part of that is bringing up my children with a knowledge and love of God. I don't have one iota of doubt that I am doing the right thing.

 

[calbear2000]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Naw, you're doing fine.

Summary of hayabusa's idea:

It's not the love of God that increases your self esteem. It's the belief in that love. Whether or not it exists is beside the point. That's basically it.

i don't think i ever doubted that was his intended message... obviously your self esteem can't be improved if you are altogether unaware of it. but why would it improve if you are aware of it? it is nothing special if he loves everyone.

Would your self-esteem be better off or worse off if you knew your mother loved you? What if you had 50 siblings... you are nothing special if she loves all X of her children

 

[Maleficus]

Of course they'll be happier, wouldnt it be wonderful if their were some greater purpose and our exsistence wasnt so meaningless and life didnt suck so much, if i could force myself to believe that id prolly be happy too...

 

[Riprorin]

Would your self-esteem be better off or worse off if you knew your mother loved you? What if you had 50 siblings... you are nothing special if she loves all X of her children

This reminds me of the debate about how many angels could dance on the head of a pin.

Obviously, if you feel loved and valued you'll have an improved sense of self-worth.