Study: False statements preceded war

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Jun 26, 2007
11,925
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Seriously, the world has known of this since before Powell took it to the UN and knew that his presentation wasn't truthful.

This is a tad too late, we all know that GW just wanted to invade Iraq and made up any reasons he could to do so.

I am not kidding either, in no country on this gods green earth will you find anyone who actually believes that the US invaded Iraq for WMD's (nonexistant), terrorist ties (same as most other countries, they sent money to widows, yes ALL widows) and then all the desperate measures "Saddam IS a WMD" i mean, that is just pathetic, really really pathetic, i'd despise a nation for less than that but i do not despise the US because in between the CAD who just buys what his party says an techs that just buy anything that is negative for the other party.

seriously people, Hillary will be president and pabster will cry, that is all that is going to happen.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
81
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: bamacre
This mumbo-jumbo, inspections, etc., is all meant to make logic seem more complicated than it really is. The truth is even if Saddam did have those weapons, they weren't any threat to us. And they weren't why we went in there.
Why did we go in then?

I don't think there is one reason. I'm sure there was a list of reasons. A long, good list that made a few cowboys drool.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,973
55,364
136
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Are you actually STILL trying to insist that Blix claimed Iraq was complying after you already failed to do so and then began your tap-dancing routine?

lol. What a weasel you are.

Yes, I'm flat out saying it.

The only way that someone could view what was going on in March 2003 as non-compliance would be those interested in taking the narrowest possible definition of the word in order to back up a decision they have already made/a position they have already decided to defend to the death. (this would be where you come in) You know this as well as I do.

You realize that with the reputation you have on these boards that calling someone else a weasel is pretty hilarious, right?
Reputation? When I want a BDS afflicted moron's opinion of what they think of me I'll flat out ask you.

The plain truth is that Iraq did not COMPLY (In caps because you seem to neglect the fact that it's the operative word here.) with resolution 1441 and Blix being anti-war himself and claiming that 'Well, Iraq is kind of cooperating, even though they are not giving us what we are asking for.' was not nearly enough. Besides that, his own personal anti-war views on the matter should have never come into play in the first place as they did when he tried to softball things in Febuary and March.

Saddam had manipulated the UN for 12+ years already and his useful idiots in the sphere of public opinion were ready to enable him again. Not this time.

Interesting... because your original post said that Blix said Iraq was NOT complying in March, which is the only thing that the post that I made said. Now you're saying his anti-war views made his statements biased. Ohhh... poor TLC, now you're being hung with your own stupid posts.

Nice try though.

EDIT: The best thing is that even after about 6 gin and tonics I can still show back up and beat you down. Poor poor TLC. When will you ever give up?
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,059
73
91
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Reputation? When I want a BDS afflicted moron's opinion of what they think of me I'll flat out ask you.

Your own posts are the best proof of how full of shit you are, and nobody needs your permission to tell you about it.

Brainless brown nosed Bushwhacko neocon sycophants like you are the only ones who would be stupid enough NOT to understand that your Traitor In Chief and his criminal cabal are liars, murderers, traitors and torturers. If "BDS" means wanting to see them tried and convicted for their crimes in open court, I'm proud to be called a "BDSer" on AT P&N.

Don't like it? :Q

:lips: my (_!_)
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Reputation? When I want a BDS afflicted moron's opinion of what they think of me I'll flat out ask you.

Your own posts are the best proof of how full of shit you are, and nobody needs your permission to tell you about it. Brainless brown nosed Bushwhacko neocon sycophants like you are the only ones who would be stupid enough NOT to understand that your Traitor In Chief and his criminal cabal are murderers, traitors and torturers. If "BDS" means wanting to see them tried and convicted for their crimes in open court, I'm proud to be called a "BDSer" on AT P&N.

Don't like it? :Q

:lips: my (_!_)
Undoubtedly you don't care one iota if I opine that you're so full of shit, rhetoric, and delusional claptrap accompanied by an overt case of OCD, Harvey. So why should anyone with a semblence of sanity imagine the reverse is true and that I give a flying flip what you have to say about me?

iow, you're wasting your breath. But it wouldn't be the first time for that for you in P&N. Practically everything you post in here is a waste of breath bits, and bandwidth. So please stop with your incessant murdering the digital domain.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
"The plain truth is that Iraq did not COMPLY (In caps because you seem to neglect the fact that it's the operative word here.) with resolution 1441..."


Funny. When I first started reading this thread, I thought the question was whether Iraq was complying with the inspectors. But now, if I'm reading TLC correctly, the question is actually whether Iraq was complying with 1441. Surely, nobody here is trying to 'pull a fast one'. ;)
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: Gaard
"The plain truth is that Iraq did not COMPLY (In caps because you seem to neglect the fact that it's the operative word here.) with resolution 1441..."


Funny. When I first started reading this thread, I thought the question was whether Iraq was complying with the inspectors. But now, if I'm reading TLC correctly, the question is actually whether Iraq was complying with 1441. Surely, nobody here is trying to 'pull a fast one'. ;)

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Gaard
"The plain truth is that Iraq did not COMPLY (In caps because you seem to neglect the fact that it's the operative word here.) with resolution 1441..."


Funny. When I first started reading this thread, I thought the question was whether Iraq was complying with the inspectors. But now, if I'm reading TLC correctly, the question is actually whether Iraq was complying with 1441. Surely, nobody here is trying to 'pull a fast one'. ;)
Funny, but I expect when someone claims Iraq was "complying" it was in refernce to their resolution obligations since comply, compliance, and complying were commonly used in that context when referring to Iraq. In fact, I already remember explaining about "complying" and "cooperating" much earlier in this thread.

But I guess during your oh-so-diligent reading of this thread you missed that bit, eh?

Besides that, it really doesn't matter if Iraq was cooperting if they still weren't ultimately complying, and they weren't.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Gaard
"The plain truth is that Iraq did not COMPLY (In caps because you seem to neglect the fact that it's the operative word here.) with resolution 1441..."


Funny. When I first started reading this thread, I thought the question was whether Iraq was complying with the inspectors. But now, if I'm reading TLC correctly, the question is actually whether Iraq was complying with 1441. Surely, nobody here is trying to 'pull a fast one'. ;)
Funny, but I expect when someone claims Iraq was "complying" it was in refernce to their resolution obligations since comply, compliance, and complying were commonly used in that context when referring to Iraq. In fact, I already remember explaining about "complying" and "cooperating" much earlier in this thread.

But I guess during your oh-so-diligent reading of this thread you missed that bit, eh?

Besides that, it really doesn't matter if Iraq was cooperting if they still weren't ultimately complying, and they weren't.

We will invade your country based on lies for the greater common good~!
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Gaard
"The plain truth is that Iraq did not COMPLY (In caps because you seem to neglect the fact that it's the operative word here.) with resolution 1441..."


Funny. When I first started reading this thread, I thought the question was whether Iraq was complying with the inspectors. But now, if I'm reading TLC correctly, the question is actually whether Iraq was complying with 1441. Surely, nobody here is trying to 'pull a fast one'. ;)
Funny, but I expect when someone claims Iraq was "complying" it was in refernce to their resolution obligations since comply, compliance, and complying were commonly used in that context when referring to Iraq. In fact, I already remember explaining about "complying" and "cooperating" much earlier in this thread.

But I guess during your oh-so-diligent reading of this thread you missed that bit, eh?

Besides that, it really doesn't matter if Iraq was cooperting if they still weren't ultimately complying, and they weren't.

We will invade your country based on lies for the greater common good~!
After the US invades Mexico, gets sent packing, and then fails to comply with its Chapter VII UN resolution obligations for 12 years...feel free to invade.
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
1
76
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Gaard
"The plain truth is that Iraq did not COMPLY (In caps because you seem to neglect the fact that it's the operative word here.) with resolution 1441..."


Funny. When I first started reading this thread, I thought the question was whether Iraq was complying with the inspectors. But now, if I'm reading TLC correctly, the question is actually whether Iraq was complying with 1441. Surely, nobody here is trying to 'pull a fast one'. ;)
Funny, but I expect when someone claims Iraq was "complying" it was in refernce to their resolution obligations since comply, compliance, and complying were commonly used in that context when referring to Iraq. In fact, I already remember explaining about "complying" and "cooperating" much earlier in this thread.

But I guess during your oh-so-diligent reading of this thread you missed that bit, eh?

Besides that, it really doesn't matter if Iraq was cooperting if they still weren't ultimately complying, and they weren't.

We will invade your country based on lies for the greater common good~!
After the US invades Mexico, gets sent packing, and then fails to comply with its Chapter VII UN resolution obligations for 12 years...feel free to invade.

Lies. You cannot use UN laws as an excuse to invade when you break UN laws by invading. The US invasion, that is Bush, broke the UN charter just as much as Saddam ever did.

The truth is the UN resolutions had nothing to do with the invasion. You are lying by trying to pretend they are. The UN sideshow was only a pretext to try and paint the invasion in some kind of legitimacy. Instead the US made a complete spectacle of itself in front of the whole world and that loss of face continues to hunt the US to this day.

Saddam and his actions are totally irrelevant. No matter what he did the US would invade Iraq, the decision was already made. All facts were being fixed around the policy to invade; fact fixing = lies. Fascinating that you whine about Saddam's lies to the UN but are ok with Bush's lies.



 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Gaard
"The plain truth is that Iraq did not COMPLY (In caps because you seem to neglect the fact that it's the operative word here.) with resolution 1441..."


Funny. When I first started reading this thread, I thought the question was whether Iraq was complying with the inspectors. But now, if I'm reading TLC correctly, the question is actually whether Iraq was complying with 1441. Surely, nobody here is trying to 'pull a fast one'. ;)
Funny, but I expect when someone claims Iraq was "complying" it was in refernce to their resolution obligations since comply, compliance, and complying were commonly used in that context when referring to Iraq. In fact, I already remember explaining about "complying" and "cooperating" much earlier in this thread.

But I guess during your oh-so-diligent reading of this thread you missed that bit, eh?

Besides that, it really doesn't matter if Iraq was cooperting if they still weren't ultimately complying, and they weren't.

We will invade your country based on lies for the greater common good~!
After the US invades Mexico, gets sent packing, and then fails to comply with its Chapter VII UN resolution obligations for 12 years...feel free to invade.

Lies. You cannot use UN laws as an excuse to invade when you break UN laws by invading. The US invasion, that is Bush, broke the UN charter just as much as Saddam ever did.

The truth is the UN resolutions had nothing to do with the invasion. You are lying by trying to pretend they are. The UN sideshow was only a pretext to try and paint the invasion in some kind of legitimacy. Instead the US made a complete spectacle of itself in front of the whole world and that loss of face continues to hunt the US to this day.

Saddam and his actions are totally irrelevant. No matter what he did the US would invade Iraq, the decision was already made. All facts were being fixed around the policy to invade; fact fixing = lies. Fascinating that you whine about Saddam's lies to the UN but are ok with Bush's lies.
Lies. If what I described above happened and Bush was President for decades already I bet you couldn't wait for someone to invade.

Now imagine how many people in Iraq felt that very same way.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,059
73
91
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Lies. If what I described above happened and Bush was President for decades already I bet you couldn't wait for someone to invade.

Now imagine how many people in Iraq felt that very same way.

BULLSHIT! "Not waiting" for "someone" to invade is not the same as committing the crime of doing it without U.N. authorization.

You are very sick. :roll:
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Lies. If what I described above happened and Bush was President for decades already I bet you couldn't wait for someone to invade.

Now imagine how many people in Iraq felt that very same way.

BULLSHIT! "Not waiting" for "someone" to invade is not the same as committing the crime of doing it without U.N. authorization.

You are very sick. :roll:
I'm not aware the UN charged us with any crime, Harvey.

btw, the ironic thing is that IF the situation I described previously actually happened (Bush was our dictator for life and he had invaded a neighboring country...etc.), people like you would be on the front lines denouncing it and making a stink about it. And if Bush were anywhere close to the evil that Saddam was, the very first time you publicly prnounced him "TRAITOR-IN-CHIEF" you'd be gone the very next day and we'd never have to listen to your pathetically redundant partisan pissing and moaning here in P&N.

While that has its own allure it's not a price I'm willing to pay. Thankfully, we don't have to. Count your blessings.
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
1
76
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Gaard
"The plain truth is that Iraq did not COMPLY (In caps because you seem to neglect the fact that it's the operative word here.) with resolution 1441..."


Funny. When I first started reading this thread, I thought the question was whether Iraq was complying with the inspectors. But now, if I'm reading TLC correctly, the question is actually whether Iraq was complying with 1441. Surely, nobody here is trying to 'pull a fast one'. ;)
Funny, but I expect when someone claims Iraq was "complying" it was in refernce to their resolution obligations since comply, compliance, and complying were commonly used in that context when referring to Iraq. In fact, I already remember explaining about "complying" and "cooperating" much earlier in this thread.

But I guess during your oh-so-diligent reading of this thread you missed that bit, eh?

Besides that, it really doesn't matter if Iraq was cooperting if they still weren't ultimately complying, and they weren't.

We will invade your country based on lies for the greater common good~!
After the US invades Mexico, gets sent packing, and then fails to comply with its Chapter VII UN resolution obligations for 12 years...feel free to invade.

Lies. You cannot use UN laws as an excuse to invade when you break UN laws by invading. The US invasion, that is Bush, broke the UN charter just as much as Saddam ever did.

The truth is the UN resolutions had nothing to do with the invasion. You are lying by trying to pretend they are. The UN sideshow was only a pretext to try and paint the invasion in some kind of legitimacy. Instead the US made a complete spectacle of itself in front of the whole world and that loss of face continues to hunt the US to this day.

Saddam and his actions are totally irrelevant. No matter what he did the US would invade Iraq, the decision was already made. All facts were being fixed around the policy to invade; fact fixing = lies. Fascinating that you whine about Saddam's lies to the UN but are ok with Bush's lies.
Lies. If what I described above happened and Bush was President for decades already I bet you couldn't wait for someone to invade.

Now imagine how many people in Iraq felt that very same way.

Nonsense.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Gaard
"The plain truth is that Iraq did not COMPLY (In caps because you seem to neglect the fact that it's the operative word here.) with resolution 1441..."


Funny. When I first started reading this thread, I thought the question was whether Iraq was complying with the inspectors. But now, if I'm reading TLC correctly, the question is actually whether Iraq was complying with 1441. Surely, nobody here is trying to 'pull a fast one'. ;)
Funny, but I expect when someone claims Iraq was "complying" it was in refernce to their resolution obligations since comply, compliance, and complying were commonly used in that context when referring to Iraq. In fact, I already remember explaining about "complying" and "cooperating" much earlier in this thread.

But I guess during your oh-so-diligent reading of this thread you missed that bit, eh?

Besides that, it really doesn't matter if Iraq was cooperting if they still weren't ultimately complying, and they weren't.

We will invade your country based on lies for the greater common good~!
After the US invades Mexico, gets sent packing, and then fails to comply with its Chapter VII UN resolution obligations for 12 years...feel free to invade.

Lies. You cannot use UN laws as an excuse to invade when you break UN laws by invading. The US invasion, that is Bush, broke the UN charter just as much as Saddam ever did.

The truth is the UN resolutions had nothing to do with the invasion. You are lying by trying to pretend they are. The UN sideshow was only a pretext to try and paint the invasion in some kind of legitimacy. Instead the US made a complete spectacle of itself in front of the whole world and that loss of face continues to hunt the US to this day.

Saddam and his actions are totally irrelevant. No matter what he did the US would invade Iraq, the decision was already made. All facts were being fixed around the policy to invade; fact fixing = lies. Fascinating that you whine about Saddam's lies to the UN but are ok with Bush's lies.
Lies. If what I described above happened and Bush was President for decades already I bet you couldn't wait for someone to invade.

Now imagine how many people in Iraq felt that very same way.

Nonsense.
Is it nonsense that you would deny Iraqis what you yourself would undoubtedly desire in the same situation?

I don't think so.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,279
14,700
146
http://www.informationclearing...e.info/article2835.htm

"?F--- Saddam,? Bush said. ?We?re taking him out.? March 2002

By Robert Parry
April 8, 2003

In the latest sign of a troubled American democracy, a large majority of U.S. citizens now say they wouldn?t mind if no weapons of mass destruction are found in Iraq, though it was George W. Bush?s chief rationale for war. Americans also don?t seem to mind that Bush appears to have deceived them for months when he claimed he hadn?t made up his mind about invading Iraq.

As he marched the nation to war, Bush presented himself as a Christian man of peace who saw war only as a last resort. But in a remarkable though little noted disclosure, Time magazine reported that in March 2002 ? a full year before the invasion ? Bush outlined his real thinking to three U.S. senators, ?Fuck Saddam,? Bush said. ?We?re taking him out.?

" Bush offered his pithy judgment after sticking his head in the door of a White House meeting between National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and three senators who had been discussing strategies for dealing with Iraq through the United Nations. The senators laughed uncomfortably at Bush?s remark, Time reported. [Time story posted March 23, 2003]

It now is clear that Bush never intended to avoid a war in Iraq, a conflict which has so far claimed the lives of at least 85 American soldiers and possibly thousands of Iraqis."

"The Bush administration?s deceit was so obvious that even Washington Post columnist David Broder spotted it. Broder, who has built a career ignoring unpleasant realities about Washington?s powerful, observed how Bush had choreographed the march to war.

?Looking back, the major landmarks of the past year appear to have been carefully designed to leave no alternative but war with Iraq ? or an unlikely capitulation and abdication by Hussein,? Broder wrote on the eve of the war. Noting Bush?s post-Sept. 11th doctrine of waging preemptive war against any nation that he deemed a potential threat, Broder said, ?It quickly became clear that Iraq had been chosen as the test case of the new doctrine.? [Washington Post, March 18, 2003]

"This new emphasis on military might to bring other countries into line -- occurring in tandem with the cheapening of the democratic debate inside the United States -- may have been described best by U.S. diplomat John Brady Kiesling, who resigned earlier this year rather than help give diplomatic cover to the war strategy.

"We have not seen such systematic distortion of intelligence, such systematic manipulation of American opinion, since the war in Vietnam," Kiesling wrote in a resignation letter on Feb. 27. "We spread disproportionate terror and confusion in the public mind, arbitrarily linking the unrelated problems of terrorism and Iraq."

"Bush apparently sees his mission in messianic terms, believing that he is the instrument of God as he strikes at Saddam Hussein and other U.S. adversaries. In a profile of Bush at war, USA Today cited Commerce Secretary Don Evans, one of Bush?s closest friends, describing Bush?s belief that he was called on by God to do what he?s doing.

Bush?s obsession with Hussein also was traced to a personal loathing for the dictator. Bush ?is convinced that the Iraqi leader is literally insane and would gladly give terrorists weapons to use to launch another attack on the United States,? the newspaper reported. In that conviction, however, Bush is at odds with CIA analysts who concluded last year that the secular Hussein would only share weapons with Islamic terrorists if the United States invaded Iraq.

While assessing Hussein as nuts, Bush has not proven to be a model of psychological stability either. As he readied himself for the speech announcing the start of the war, he was behaving more like a frat boy than a world leader undertaking a grave act that would end the lives of thousands. He pumped his fist and exclaimed about himself, ?feel good.?

"Bush's behavior seems to be tracking with the imperial style he unveiled last year to Bob Woodward in an interview for the book, Bush at War. "That's the interesting thing about being the president," Bush said. "Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation."



 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
1
76
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Gaard
"The plain truth is that Iraq did not COMPLY (In caps because you seem to neglect the fact that it's the operative word here.) with resolution 1441..."


Funny. When I first started reading this thread, I thought the question was whether Iraq was complying with the inspectors. But now, if I'm reading TLC correctly, the question is actually whether Iraq was complying with 1441. Surely, nobody here is trying to 'pull a fast one'. ;)
Funny, but I expect when someone claims Iraq was "complying" it was in refernce to their resolution obligations since comply, compliance, and complying were commonly used in that context when referring to Iraq. In fact, I already remember explaining about "complying" and "cooperating" much earlier in this thread.

But I guess during your oh-so-diligent reading of this thread you missed that bit, eh?

Besides that, it really doesn't matter if Iraq was cooperting if they still weren't ultimately complying, and they weren't.

We will invade your country based on lies for the greater common good~!
After the US invades Mexico, gets sent packing, and then fails to comply with its Chapter VII UN resolution obligations for 12 years...feel free to invade.

Lies. You cannot use UN laws as an excuse to invade when you break UN laws by invading. The US invasion, that is Bush, broke the UN charter just as much as Saddam ever did.

The truth is the UN resolutions had nothing to do with the invasion. You are lying by trying to pretend they are. The UN sideshow was only a pretext to try and paint the invasion in some kind of legitimacy. Instead the US made a complete spectacle of itself in front of the whole world and that loss of face continues to hunt the US to this day.

Saddam and his actions are totally irrelevant. No matter what he did the US would invade Iraq, the decision was already made. All facts were being fixed around the policy to invade; fact fixing = lies. Fascinating that you whine about Saddam's lies to the UN but are ok with Bush's lies.
Lies. If what I described above happened and Bush was President for decades already I bet you couldn't wait for someone to invade.

Now imagine how many people in Iraq felt that very same way.

Nonsense.
Is it nonsense that you would deny Iraqis what you yourself would undoubtedly desire in the same situation?

I don't think so.

Logical fallacies like the above one (Strawman) are your hallmark TLC.

 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Gaard
"The plain truth is that Iraq did not COMPLY (In caps because you seem to neglect the fact that it's the operative word here.) with resolution 1441..."


Funny. When I first started reading this thread, I thought the question was whether Iraq was complying with the inspectors. But now, if I'm reading TLC correctly, the question is actually whether Iraq was complying with 1441. Surely, nobody here is trying to 'pull a fast one'. ;)
Funny, but I expect when someone claims Iraq was "complying" it was in refernce to their resolution obligations since comply, compliance, and complying were commonly used in that context when referring to Iraq. In fact, I already remember explaining about "complying" and "cooperating" much earlier in this thread.

But I guess during your oh-so-diligent reading of this thread you missed that bit, eh?

Besides that, it really doesn't matter if Iraq was cooperting if they still weren't ultimately complying, and they weren't.

We will invade your country based on lies for the greater common good~!
After the US invades Mexico, gets sent packing, and then fails to comply with its Chapter VII UN resolution obligations for 12 years...feel free to invade.

Lies. You cannot use UN laws as an excuse to invade when you break UN laws by invading. The US invasion, that is Bush, broke the UN charter just as much as Saddam ever did.

The truth is the UN resolutions had nothing to do with the invasion. You are lying by trying to pretend they are. The UN sideshow was only a pretext to try and paint the invasion in some kind of legitimacy. Instead the US made a complete spectacle of itself in front of the whole world and that loss of face continues to hunt the US to this day.

Saddam and his actions are totally irrelevant. No matter what he did the US would invade Iraq, the decision was already made. All facts were being fixed around the policy to invade; fact fixing = lies. Fascinating that you whine about Saddam's lies to the UN but are ok with Bush's lies.
Lies. If what I described above happened and Bush was President for decades already I bet you couldn't wait for someone to invade.

Now imagine how many people in Iraq felt that very same way.

Nonsense.
Is it nonsense that you would deny Iraqis what you yourself would undoubtedly desire in the same situation?

I don't think so.

Logical fallacies like the above one (Strawman) are your hallmark TLC.
So it's a fallacy that you would oppose a Bush dictatorship in the style of Saddam?

I think not. You're just doing your best to avoid answering honestly.
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
1
76
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Gaard
"The plain truth is that Iraq did not COMPLY (In caps because you seem to neglect the fact that it's the operative word here.) with resolution 1441..."


Funny. When I first started reading this thread, I thought the question was whether Iraq was complying with the inspectors. But now, if I'm reading TLC correctly, the question is actually whether Iraq was complying with 1441. Surely, nobody here is trying to 'pull a fast one'. ;)
Funny, but I expect when someone claims Iraq was "complying" it was in refernce to their resolution obligations since comply, compliance, and complying were commonly used in that context when referring to Iraq. In fact, I already remember explaining about "complying" and "cooperating" much earlier in this thread.

But I guess during your oh-so-diligent reading of this thread you missed that bit, eh?

Besides that, it really doesn't matter if Iraq was cooperting if they still weren't ultimately complying, and they weren't.

We will invade your country based on lies for the greater common good~!
After the US invades Mexico, gets sent packing, and then fails to comply with its Chapter VII UN resolution obligations for 12 years...feel free to invade.

Lies. You cannot use UN laws as an excuse to invade when you break UN laws by invading. The US invasion, that is Bush, broke the UN charter just as much as Saddam ever did.

The truth is the UN resolutions had nothing to do with the invasion. You are lying by trying to pretend they are. The UN sideshow was only a pretext to try and paint the invasion in some kind of legitimacy. Instead the US made a complete spectacle of itself in front of the whole world and that loss of face continues to hunt the US to this day.

Saddam and his actions are totally irrelevant. No matter what he did the US would invade Iraq, the decision was already made. All facts were being fixed around the policy to invade; fact fixing = lies. Fascinating that you whine about Saddam's lies to the UN but are ok with Bush's lies.
Lies. If what I described above happened and Bush was President for decades already I bet you couldn't wait for someone to invade.

Now imagine how many people in Iraq felt that very same way.

Nonsense.
Is it nonsense that you would deny Iraqis what you yourself would undoubtedly desire in the same situation?

I don't think so.

Logical fallacies like the above one (Strawman) are your hallmark TLC.
So it's a fallacy that you would oppose a Bush dictatorship in the style of Saddam?

I think not. You're just doing your best to avoid answering honestly.

You introduced a completely irrelevant argument instead of answering the original line of arguments, you then expect me to answer this new argument instead of discussing the original arguments. I'll spell them out for you.

Are you ok with Bush lying to the UN?

Are you upset Saddam lied to the UN? [Clearly you are as your whole line of argument rests on Saddam's defiance of the UN]

Are you ok with Bush breaking the UN charter to invade Iraq?

Are you upset Saddam broke the UN charter to invade Kuwait?

If both men broke the UN charter, why are you not a hypocrite for supporting the one over the other?

You argue the US went in as because Saddam was not cooperating with the UN. I argue that Iraq would have been invaded whether he cooperated or not as the decision to invade was already made. Saddam (and WMD's) was only a pretext for the invasion.

I argue that Bush (I paraphrased the words of the Downing Street memo) "fixed the facts to fit the policy", the policy obviously being the US invasion.


[[[[[As for your question. And this is really a totally seperate discussion.

Obviously I am against all dictatorships. But the fact of the matter is that the US did not invade just to overthrow Saddam, the US rode in on a wave of ulterior motives. And that is well known to the Iraqi people. Remember the US wanted to install a new puppet in Chalabi to replace the renegade puppet Saddam. Only the Iraqi people (esp the Shiite clerics) made it clear they would have none of it. Also the "liberate the Iraqi people" fiction is belied by, for example, the strength of the Sunni uprising against the US occupiers (it has subsided only now the US has started paying Danegeld to the Sunnis which I must say is an amusing twist).

Let's face it. The US has no wish to see Iraq Independent, Sovereign and Free (just look at the Green Zone monstrosity). At this very moment in time Bush is trying to set his Foreign Invasion forces up to protect Iraq from Foreign Invasion Forces (while still supporting Turkish Foreign Invasion forces and allow them to attack targets inside Iraq. Sigh one of these days Bush is going to kill me from laughter.

Question for you. Why would the Iraqi people accept the US as a new Overlord instead of the old Overlord Saddam. I thought you pretended the US invaded Iraq to free it from dictators? Would you accept a foreign power as a parasite on your back?

Bush has taken over Saddam's Secret Police (the Mukhabarat), Saddam's Prison Abu Grahib and is now restarting Saddam's Bath party. HAHAHAHA seriously can't someone make Bush president for life lmao he is more fun than Baghdad Bob.

In fact it looks to me you are supporting a Bush dictatorship in the style of Saddam over the Iraqi people. Support the Sunnis, fuck with the Kurds, kick the Shiites.

]]]]]]


 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
81
If the invasion of Iraq had been successful, people would be talking about the Bush Doctrine. The US would have invaded Iran and no one but the "haters and syncopaths" would remember that all of US imperialism was justified by "false statements".
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: GrGr
You argue the US went in as because Saddam was not cooperating with the UN. I argue that Iraq would have been invaded whether he cooperated or not as the decision to invade was already made. Saddam (and WMD's) was only a pretext for the invasion.
I'm not sure why he's using that argument. His words in this thread... "the Iraq invasion was more about providing the US with a strategic location from which to fight the WoT than anything else."

Maybe he means that we just used the 'not copperating' thing as just an excuse to go in.

 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GrGr
You argue the US went in as because Saddam was not cooperating with the UN. I argue that Iraq would have been invaded whether he cooperated or not as the decision to invade was already made. Saddam (and WMD's) was only a pretext for the invasion.
I'm not sure why he's using that argument. His words in this thread... "the Iraq invasion was more about providing the US with a strategic location from which to fight the WoT than anything else."

Maybe he means that we just used the 'not copperating' thing as just an excuse to go in.
Do I REALLY need to explain the difference to you between my opinion of the primary reason why we are in Iraq and why we went into Iraq without waiting for UN approval? They are really two separate issues so tell me you aren't that oblivious.

Besides that, notice how GrGr is deperately dodging and weaving to avoid answering the question I put to him?
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
81
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Is it nonsense that you would deny Iraqis what you yourself would undoubtedly desire in the same situation?

I don't think so.

Who was denying what? Even our own constitution states that rights are inalienable, not something given to us via the federal government. No, they are only there to protect those rights. Besides, we aren't there to spread freedom nor democracy.
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
1
76
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GrGr
You argue the US went in as because Saddam was not cooperating with the UN. I argue that Iraq would have been invaded whether he cooperated or not as the decision to invade was already made. Saddam (and WMD's) was only a pretext for the invasion.
I'm not sure why he's using that argument. His words in this thread... "the Iraq invasion was more about providing the US with a strategic location from which to fight the WoT than anything else."

Maybe he means that we just used the 'not copperating' thing as just an excuse to go in.
Do I REALLY need to explain the difference to you between my opinion of the primary reason why we are in Iraq and why we went into Iraq without waiting for UN approval? They are really two separate issues so tell me you aren't that oblivious.

Besides that, notice how GrGr is deperately dodging and weaving to avoid answering the question I put to him?

What question? I answered it. Now you answer mine.