Study: Army Stretched to Breaking Point

[techs]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060124/ap_...wvIE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-
Stretched by frequent troop rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan, the Army has become a "thin green line" that could snap unless relief comes soon, according to a study for the Pentagon.

Andrew Krepinevich, a retired Army officer who wrote the report under a Pentagon contract, concluded that the Army cannot sustain the pace of troop deployments to Iraq long enough to break the back of the insurgency. He also suggested that the Pentagon's decision, announced in December, to begin reducing the force in Iraq this year was driven in part by a realization that the Army was overextended.

As evidence, Krepinevich points to the Army's 2005 recruiting slump ? missing its recruiting goal for the first time since 1999 ? and its decision to offer much bigger enlistment bonuses and other incentives.

"You really begin to wonder just how much stress and strain there is on the Army, how much longer it can continue," he said in an interview. He added that the Army is still a highly effective fighting force and is implementing a plan that will expand the number of combat brigades available for rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan.

The 136-page report represents a more sobering picture of the Army's condition than military officials offer in public. While not released publicly, a copy of the report was provided in response to an Associated Press inquiry.



Whether you support the Iraq invasion or not, whether you believe the troops should be withdrawn now or later, I think everyone can agree on this:
America has stood behind its troops enthusiastically with words and symbolism. Now let's support our troops with our wallets. Greater benefits. A new G.I. bill so any soldier can go to college tuition free. Free travel when on leave. Military discounts for soldiers during a time of war at Wal-Mart, McDonalds, etc. Put up a sign in small businesses for discounts for soldiers.
Its a day and age where it seems more important to proclaim our support than actually doing something.
In a time where its hard to find something to believe in these young men and women have chosen a path of honor and duty.
What ever needs to be done should be done.
Our troops have performed brilliantly. However, our armed forces have been built for high intensity, short duration conflicts.
It will cost money to keep them in the field.

 

[Dissipate]

Now let's support our troops with our wallets. Greater benefits. A new G.I. bill so any soldier can go to college tuition free. Free travel when on leave. Military discounts for soldiers during a time of war at Wal-Mart, McDonalds, etc. Put up a sign in small businesses for discounts for soldiers.

What do you mean our wallets? I wanted nothing to do with the war or the military. I think my wallet should stay firmly shut.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Now let's support our troops with our wallets. Greater benefits. A new G.I. bill so any soldier can go to college tuition free. Free travel when on leave. Military discounts for soldiers during a time of war at Wal-Mart, McDonalds, etc. Put up a sign in small businesses for discounts for soldiers.

What do you mean our wallets? I wanted nothing to do with the war or the military. I think my wallet should stay firmly shut.

And you do not value your freedom?
This has nothing to do with the war; it is providing a measure of repsect and thanks for ALL that are willing to put themselves in harms way so you can be safe and comfy.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Now let's support our troops with our wallets. Greater benefits. A new G.I. bill so any soldier can go to college tuition free. Free travel when on leave. Military discounts for soldiers during a time of war at Wal-Mart, McDonalds, etc. Put up a sign in small businesses for discounts for soldiers.

What do you mean our wallets? I wanted nothing to do with the war or the military. I think my wallet should stay firmly shut.

And you do not value your freedom?
This has nothing to do with the war; it is providing a measure of repsect and thanks for ALL that are willing to put themselves in harms way so you can be safe and comfy.

I value freedom, but the fascist military industrial complex is everything that a freedom lover ought to be opposed to.

I don't give anyone in the military industrial warfare state thanks. In fact, I think a lot of people in the military don't understand that they are fighting for politicians and fat cat execs of military contracting firms.

 

[Meuge]

It's high time we started spending more money on the soldiers, versus the equipment. We should start by raising salaries at least 50%. The military used to be an attractive career throughout history... a career that attracted the bright and the ambitious. We shouldn't turn it into the outlet for McDonalds rejects.

 

[Steeplerot]

I think most know how used they are in the service, but they do not care as the us military is nothing but another aspect of our welfare state, one that uses its recipents to kill for big industry profits sucking in the poor and easily led.

One of the first things you learn is not to ask questions, to just be a tool, in a way this is exactly why the media nowdays trumpets military service as so "heroic", it is pure obedience they want to feed the public.

Defending yourself is not heroic, it is a nessasary action, but then a population in a bubble as americans are swallow fairy stories easily nowdays.

I can never remember a time when the military and bright and ambitious were one in the same, it is more a haven for career types whos family did the same and those in a dead end situation, this is why they have to draft people, there are a lot better thing to do in life then die for someone elses manipulations.

 

[DickFnTracy]

It's high time we started spending more money on the soldiers, versus the equipment. We should start by raising salaries at least 50%.

Your heart is no doubt in the right place but the reality is that someones base pay does not protect them from getting killed or allow them to complete a mission. I will agree with you that our junior enlisted personnel are underpaid but I will argue an immediate 50% pay raise is neither warranted or prudent. I think the best way to spend our money is to balance between excellent equipment and training and pay that is comprable with what their civilian counterparts are making (all government service lags the civilian sector). On top of that I would add specialty and situational pay or allowances (allowances are not taxed) such as hostile fire, sea pay, sub pay, flight pay, etc. It is those situational pays that need to be increased drastically to try to make up for specific skills or high risk environments.

 

[OrganizedChaos]

if it comes down to it they'll juct activate the whole IRR thats what its there for.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
if it comes down to it they'll juct activate the whole IRR thats what its there for.

I wonder how that will affect local economies then? Yanking people out of their jobs, businesses lose experience and may not be able to replace it (on the temporary basis that it must be for).

The smartest thing to do would be to implement the Murtha proposal and leave Iran the fvck alone.

This country cannot afford another war in the Middle East.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
if it comes down to it they'll juct activate the whole IRR thats what its there for.

The IRR would not be easy to activate as a whole. The number of troop processing locations is limited. It would probably take 6+ months to get a large number through.

Also, FYI, individuals have already been activated from my understanding.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
if it comes down to it they'll juct activate the whole IRR thats what its there for.

The IRR would not be easy to activate as a whole. The number of troop processing locations is limited. It would probably take 6+ months to get a large number through.

Also, FYI, individuals have already been activated from my understanding.

IRR? A bunch of guys who have not trained in years?
Not the best option.

 

[shadow9d9]

Guys, this is obviously the fault of Clinton and the liberals...

 

[Zebo]

Supply is'nt meeting demand. If they paid $10000 a month combat pay I'd wager this would'nt be a problem. But as it is most american kids arnt dumb enough to risk getting thier ass shot off for basically minimum wage. Junior enlisted make about $1200-$1900 a month. Face it - You'd have to be really desperate to risk your ass for an unesseary conflict like iraq. The iraqis fight for free and we would too if we really believed in the cause.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Supply is'nt meeting demand. If they paid $10000 a month combat pay I'd wager this would'nt be a problem. But as it is most american kids arnt dumb enough to risk getting thier ass shot off for basically minimum wage. Junior enlisted make about $1200-$1900 a month. Face it - You'd have to be really desperate to risk your ass for an unesseary conflict like iraq. The iraqis fight for free and we would too if we really believed in the cause.

QFT

Pay the people what they deserve for risking their lives in order to protect your economic interests. Up the base salary 50% and triple combat pay. No other way about it. If that means I'll have to pay an extra 2% in taxes, then so be it.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Zebo
Supply is'nt meeting demand. If they paid $10000 a month combat pay I'd wager this would'nt be a problem. But as it is most american kids arnt dumb enough to risk getting thier ass shot off for basically minimum wage. Junior enlisted make about $1200-$1900 a month. Face it - You'd have to be really desperate to risk your ass for an unesseary conflict like iraq. The iraqis fight for free and we would too if we really believed in the cause.

QFT

Pay the people what they deserve for risking their lives in order to protect your economic interests. Up the base salary 50% and triple combat pay. No other way about it. If that means I'll have to pay an extra 2% in taxes, then so be it.

All they'd have to do is cut what the pay to the well connected who are profiting off the war. They ever find that 9 billion in missing CPA funds?

Anyway base sal is too high IMO. When not fighting military does'nt do much to deserve thier pay but combate pay should be at least as much as a g13-14 pencil pusher make. 10,000 a month.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Zebo
Supply is'nt meeting demand. If they paid $10000 a month combat pay I'd wager this would'nt be a problem. But as it is most american kids arnt dumb enough to risk getting thier ass shot off for basically minimum wage. Junior enlisted make about $1200-$1900 a month. Face it - You'd have to be really desperate to risk your ass for an unesseary conflict like iraq. The iraqis fight for free and we would too if we really believed in the cause.

QFT

Pay the people what they deserve for risking their lives in order to protect your economic interests. Up the base salary 50% and triple combat pay. No other way about it. If that means I'll have to pay an extra 2% in taxes, then so be it.

All they'd have to do is cut what the pay to the well connected who are profiting off the war. They ever find that 9 billion in missing CPA funds?

Anyway base sal is too high IMO. When not fighting military does'nt do much to deserve thier pay but combate pay should be at least as much as a g13-14 pencil pusher make. 10,000 a month.

Sorry, but an active duty person is still doing a full time job. Just because they may not be in a combat zone does not mean they have nothing to do. Frankly, your comment is insulting.

 

[Generator]

Soldiers who see combat derserve to be paid one million dollars a year. It is chump change anyway. Christ even pay that piece of garbage Lyndie England a million dollars, maybe she could buy some integrity with it one day.

 

[1EZduzit]

The Iraqi's freedom isn't my problem and I never believed it was. What seems to be the hold up in training them to fight their own war so we can get our boys the hell out of harms's way??

Could it be war profitering maybe?? Hmmmm, methinks some of you people should have thought of this when we were cutting taxes, eliminating the inheritance taxes, etc. Now you want to come to people who can't pay their frickin heat bill and ask for some money because it's there patriotic duty???

Excuse me if it falls on deaf ears.

 

[SMOKE20]

There are roughly 25% of our military active troops deployed to Iraq. The problem is all the other places they are deployed around the world, the number of places we have troops deployed and the number of troops we actually have would surprise you....

Found this after I posted so I thought I'd post it.........this is as of 8/2005

Afghanistan
Albania
Algeria
Antigua
Argentina
Australia
Austria
Azerbaijan
Bahamas
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belgium
Belize
Bolivia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Botswana
Brazil
Bulgaria
Burma
Burundi
Cambodia
Cameroon
Canada
Chad
Chile
China
Colombia
Congo
Costa Rica
Cote D?lvoire
Cuba
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Djibouti
Dominican Republic
East Timor
Ecuador
Egypt
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Fiji Finland
France
Georgia
Germany
Ghana
Greece
Guatemala
Guinea
Haiti
Honduras
Hungary
Iceland
India
Indonesia
Iraq
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kenya
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Latvia
Lebanon
Liberia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Macedonia
Madagascar
Malawi
Malaysia
Mali
Malta
Mexico
Mongolia
Morocco
Mozambique
Nepal
Netherlands
New Zealand
Nicaragua
Niger
Nigeria
North Korea
Norway
Oman
Pakistan
Paraguay
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Qatar
Romania
Russia
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Serbia and Montenegro
Sierra Leone
Singapore
Slovenia
Spain
South Africa
South Korea
Sri Lanka
Suriname
Sweden
Switzerland
Syria
Tanzania
Thailand
Togo
Trinidad and Tobago
Tunisia
Turkey
Turkmenistan
Uganda
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
Uruguay
Venezuela
Vietnam
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Meuge
It's high time we started spending more money on the soldiers, versus the equipment. We should start by raising salaries at least 50%. The military used to be an attractive career throughout history... a career that attracted the bright and the ambitious. We shouldn't turn it into the outlet for McDonalds rejects.

The Republicans' plan for America involves turning all jobs into outlets for McDonald's rejects. Why should their military be any different.

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: techsAs evidence, Krepinevich points to the Army's 2005 recruiting slump ? missing its recruiting goal for the first time since 1999 ? and its decision to offer much bigger enlistment bonuses and other incentives.

"You really begin to wonder just how much stress and strain there is on the Army, how much longer it can continue," he said in an interview. He added that the Army is still a highly effective fighting force and is implementing a plan that will expand the number of combat brigades available for rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan.

I doubt wages constitute a large part of the military budget. This means that this problem is not likely to be a serious one. If there is a shortfall increase wages.

 

[Starbuck1975]

One of the first things you learn is not to ask questions, to just be a tool, in a way this is exactly why the media nowdays trumpets military service as so "heroic", it is pure obedience they want to feed the public.

Soldiers and officers are taught, above all else, to apply their capacity for thinking outside of the box...a necessary survival skill for adapting to high stress, high tempo operations, where things can go to hell in a hand basket in a hurry...soldiers, and particularly officers, are taught to not blindly follow orders...blindly following orders is what gets people killed and loses wars.

I can never remember a time when the military and bright and ambitious were one in the same, it is more a haven for career types whos family did the same and those in a dead end situation, this is why they have to draft people, there are a lot better thing to do in life then die for someone elses manipulations.

Some of the most intelligent people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing I met in the military...even if they did not have the benefit of an ivy league or prestigious education...and most of the soldiers I served with, including officers, did not come from career military families...if anything, our society has shifted away from the white collar elite ruling class of the military officer corps.

You know not of which you speak, as clearly demonstrated by your total lack of understanding in how the military operates.

I value freedom, but the fascist military industrial complex is everything that a freedom lover ought to be opposed to.

AKA the boogey man

 

[Todd33]

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1960

 

[Aimster]

Currently, there are 499,000 active duty Army troops, backed up by 700,000 National Guard and Army reservists. That's a third less than when the U.S. fought its last big war in the Persian Gulf, in 1991;

-copy pasted

 

[Agrooreo]

Definately think soldiers in war zones need more pay. As far as the army not being able to deal with troop deployments long enough to "break the back or insurgency" I dont think thats necessarily true. Something will happen before the leaders of our country allow their army to dwindle till nothing. Without an strong army to do their bidding they all lose.