Student Faces Expulsion For Playing With Toy Gun In His Own Yard

[her209]

To use some P&N logic: The children should have stood their ground then against these thugs and we'd have a couple of bodies on the ground.

:exactly:

If a cop rolled up and he pointed it at a cop, he'd be dead.

Or even GZ.

 

[cubby1223]

It took place near the bus stop, while people were waiting for the bus, which is absolutely in the school's jurisdiction. It was not isolated to private property. Using your flat, unbendable logic, a student on a field trip should not be punishable either. After all, that's off school grounds too. But that isn't the case. A field trip, much like a bus stop, is an off-grounds, but still within the school's jurisdiction to mete out punishment and enforce appropriate behavior.

As the letter points out, he isn't being expelled. He's been suspended from normal school and being provided with alternative schooling. His behavior and improvement will be reviewed at 6 months to see if he can reintegrate with the normal school.

Do you even stop to consider what you are typing? How does one have a discussion with someone who has completely detached himself from being a human? Review in 6 months to see if he can reintegrate?

 

[cubby1223]

To use some P&N logic: The children should have stood their ground then against these thugs and we'd have a couple of bodies on the ground.

Now I know for sure you are just trolling the thread.

 

[Brainonska511]

Do you even stop to consider what you are typing? How does one have a discussion with someone who has completely detached himself from being a human? Review in 6 months to see if he can reintegrate?

How else would you deal with it? Just keep the troublesome child in the general school population, so that he can continue to be a problem? You still need to provide him with an education, and he obviously has problems being in a normal school. Give him some time away and see if his behavior improves. I don't see an issue with that.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

My initial reaction was that this was just another example of progressives going batshit insane over really stupid stuff. But the guns, which I believed to be innocent nerf-like toys, actually look quite real and threatening. Also, the airsoft pellets, while not BBs or conventional pellets, will hurt if it hits exposed skin and are capable of putting out an eye.

 

[brycejones]

will hurt if it hits exposed skin and are capable of putting out an eye.

You'll shoot your eye out kid!

A kid shooting other kids with an airsoft gun at a bus stop is not acceptable behavior. Since it seems this young man has quite the history in the last 18 months maybe its time for his parents to start doing some parenting.

 

[Brovane]

I can see that thread now: "Virginia Beach Police wasting tax payer money by going after children with toy guns"

If they were harassing people going to the bus stop, then I don't see an issue with the school taking the lead on punishing the children in question.

The probably is that schools can sometimes have such a low standard of evidence in wrong doing especially when it occurs off campus. Basically in investigations with the schools the principal acts as the investigator, judge and jury. Their is no neutral 3rd party to look at the evidence to try and determine what the truth is. Realistically if kids where firing at other kids walking to the school bus stop then something should be done.

However it seems in dealing with schools you are guilty until proven innocent so as soon as the accusation was labeled the kids where guilty regardless of what the evidence had shown. It is one thing to be guilty until proven innocent when you are just dealing with a couple of detentions or saturday school etc. However when you are looking at explusion or suspension for months at a time you need to have a higher standard of evidence. Realistically the principal could have just looked at the entire situation as a easy out. These kids are trouble on campus for me. So I will just find find them guilty of firing air softs at other kids and get them kicked out of school so they become somebody else problem.

 

[Jaskalas]

What if the bystanders were just walking to the bus stop? Where is the demarcation line for the school's jurisdiction? Why should this jackass be able to harass people on their way to school with impunity? His record clearly shows that his hands are not squeaky clean.

None of which has anything to do with a school and should instead involve police to deal with an actual crime.

 

[surfsatwerk]

None of which has anything to do with a school and should instead involve police to deal with an actual crime.

Students potentially taking action to harm other students on the way to school should definitely be of interest to administrators.

 

[Atreus21]

What if the bystanders were just walking to the bus stop? Where is the demarcation line for the school's jurisdiction? Why should this jackass be able to harass people on their way to school with impunity? His record clearly shows that his hands are not squeaky clean.

The demarcation line starts at the bus stop. Walking to the school bus from 50 miles away doesn't mean that everything that happens to you while you're walking is within the schools jurisdiction.

The jackass shouldn't be able to harass people on their way to school with impunity. But the school is not an enforcement arm of the state.

 

[Exterous]

The demarcation line starts at the bus stop. Walking to the school bus from 50 miles away doesn't mean that everything that happens to you while you're walking is within the schools jurisdiction.

What is your view on projectiles moving through the airspace directly above the demarcation line? The school has stated that a child was stuck within 10 feet of the bus stop so it seems conceivable that projectiles were flying through that area especially since it was reported he was aiming at people who were at the bus stop.

 

[Exterous]

None of which has anything to do with a school

The school's legal department feels differently. What legal expertise\information do you have that counters their assertion?

 

[Brovane]

What is your view on projectiles moving through the airspace directly above the demarcation line? The school has stated that a child was stuck within 10 feet of the bus stop so it seems conceivable that projectiles were flying through that area especially since it was reported he was aiming at people who were at the bus stop.

That would be a matter for the police to look into if there is evidence of such activity.

 

[Exterous]

Unbelievable. Possession of a firearm? You've lost your damn mind.

I agree - or at least highly suspicious that what the kid said is correct as none of the official school releases refer to a firearm - only a pellet gun or airsoft gun.

 

[Exterous]

That would be a matter for the police to look into if there is evidence of such activity.

A police interaction\investigation does not absolve or preclude the schools liability\responsibility in this matter

 

[cubby1223]

What if the bystanders were just walking to the bus stop? Where is the demarcation line for the school's jurisdiction? Why should this jackass be able to harass people on their way to school with impunity? His record clearly shows that his hands are not squeaky clean.

I see we're reduced to playing the "what if" game once again to settle discussions... always a winning strategy!

You're the one arguing this person must be convicted and punished. It is up to you to present evidence. What you've presented is insufficient, I and many others am not convinced this deserves a very lengthy suspension and possible expulsion.

The bigger question is, why did you immediately jump to the conclusion that this "jackass" is getting what he deserves, then you begin seeking out any piece of evidence you can to prove yourself right - as opposed to entering the topic with an open mind and seeking out more facts to determine how you feel? Is there a related personal story involved? What?

On the basis of "shooting toy gun" = suspension, it's bullshit. Maybe this child needs some punishment, maybe not. But the evidence is not here yet, and this situation does not demand it.

 

[bshole]

On the basis of "shooting toy gun" = suspension, it's bullshit. Maybe this child needs some punishment, maybe not. But the evidence is not here yet, and this situation does not demand it.

He was shooting a weapon that had the potential to BLIND his targets. It was a toy gun in much the same way a paintball gun or bb gun is a toy gun.

Another problem is that the projectiles could be dangerous. The Waterloo-Cedar Falls Courier in Iowa reports that the BBs leaving the barrel of an airsoft pistol travel 130 feet per second; 650 feet per second for a sniper rifle. One rifle that fires at 375 feet per second has a warning on the box that states it "may be dangerous to 100 yards."

 

[Kadarin]

If the kid was aiming at targets in his yard, this should not be a crime, and should warrant no punishment. However, if the kid was aiming at and/or firing at people, then absolutely arrest him. An airsoft gun is NOT a firearm, but it should still be respected as a gun that can injure someone. Gun safety rules should apply.

 

[Brovane]

A police interaction\investigation does not absolve or preclude the schools liability\responsibility in this matter

The problem is that schools don't seem to have a process for a investigative process that is non-bias and a non-bias decision on guilt or innocence.

 

[Zargon]

He was shooting a weapon that had the potential to BLIND his targets. It was a toy gun in much the same way a paintball gun or bb gun is a toy gun.

they were cheap ass ones, a bb gun or paintball gun is way way more dangerous

 

[Exterous]

The problem is that schools don't seem to have a process for a investigative process that is non-bias and a non-bias decision on guilt or innocence.

They don't? Please elaborate on how this investigation was handled in a biased manner. Please site your sources.

 

[Brovane]

They don't? Please elaborate on how this investigation was handled in a biased manner. Please site your sources.

Simple in normal school investigations the principal is essentially acting as the investigator, judge and jury. There is no trial with judge and jury etc. Criminals have more rights than a student does when dealing with charges by school administration. Was their any mention of a trial in the story? Any mention of a chance for the student and parents to present their side of the story and possible witnesses that would contradict what the principal was saying happened? Basically the hearing was to find out what their punishment would be.

 

[Exterous]

Simple in normal school investigations the principal is essentially acting as the investigator, judge and jury.

What the heck does that have to do with this case? The Police, administration and legal department were involved in the investigation along with the principal and the administration and legal department were involved in the judge and jury phase as well. If you are going to argue the point on this case you could at least bother to use relevant information.

Was their any mention of a trial in the story? Any mention of a chance for the student and parents to present their side of the story and possible witnesses that would contradict what the principal was saying happened? Basically the hearing was to find out what their punishment would be.

First - a trial is not the only method to get an un-biased result out of the incident. Second - we have no idea if the parents were there to present their side of the story or have a 'hearing'. You cannot use the fact that a news story didn't report something as proof it didn't happen.

 

[werepossum]

What if he was wearing a hoodie?

Or a shirt that reminds this woman of a hoodie and therefore makes her uncomfortable.
Today:
"This is not a real [gun], but it makes people uncomfortable," she told a dispatcher. "I know that it makes me [uncomfortable], as a mom, to see a boy pointing a gun."

Tomorrow?
"He's not wearing a real hoodie, but it makes people uncomfortable," she told a dispatcher. "I know that it makes me uncomfortable, as a mom, to see a boy in a hoodie."

From the original article's photo, this is a kid with an orange-tipped green Airsoft pistol. If you think feel this is a problem, might as well advocate teaching the kids to graze grass so that government can really raise them as sheep.

EDIT: No freakin' wonder soccer is so popular, we have an entire subgroup (in every possible meaning of the word) that cannot stand to see kids with something as violent and deadly as a baseball or, heaven forbid, a bat!

 

[Atomic Playboy]

From the original article's photo, this is a kid with an orange-tipped green Airsoft pistol. If you think feel this is a problem, might as well advocate teaching the kids to graze grass so that government can really raise them as sheep.

No freakin' wonder soccer is so popular, we have an entire subgroup (in every possible meaning of the word) that cannot stand to see kids with something as violent and deadly as a baseball or, heaven forbid, a bat!

I don't care if it's a squirt gun; you shouldn't be aiming/firing it at people who don't want you to. If he's actually shooting at other kids waiting for the bus, he's crossed the line and the school is well within reason to suspend or expel him based on past history. If he wasn't actually shooting at other kids, this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion.