Stuart Chase: lolquote

[PaperclipGod]

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.”
~Stuart Chase

From someones sig, forgot who. My guess is he's referring to Xenu. Yea/Nay?

 

[Dr. Zaus]

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.”
~Stuart Chase

From someones sig, forgot who. My guess is he's referring to Xenu. Yea/Nay?

Being as how he lived before Xenu was invented, I highly doubt it.

So, are you trying to make an in-direct comment about the new-deal and economists or are you a'tard?

 

[theflyingpig]

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.”
~Stuart Chase

lol. This is what makes P&N fun. Everyone knows this.

 

[PaperclipGod]

That quote is arrogant as shit. It's assuming that everyone is retarded, no matter what they believe.

 

[child of wonder]

See my signature.

 

[Borealis7]

or mine...

 

[Moonbeam]

That quote is arrogant as shit. It's assuming that everyone is retarded, no matter what they believe.

Why? What does your quote really mean? Isn't it about faith, a belief without proof for which there can be no proof? What is arrogant about that. It's just what faith is, no?

To be arrogant, in my opinion, you would have to believe that those with faith should have some obligation to prove what they believe, and those who do not believe, some way to justify that.

But faith is grace, it is given and can't be taken. The proof is in the grace.

 

[child of wonder]

<drivel>

Fixed.

I'm fine with people clinging to faith if they feel it benefits them in some personal way. Don't then force that faith upon trusting kids who don't know any better or try to legislate that faith upon others (same sex marriage bans, "Intelligent Design," etc.) and we'll all get along fine.

 

[shira]

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.”
~Stuart Chase

From someones sig, forgot who. My guess is he's referring to Xenu. Yea/Nay?

This quote refers solely to the right-wing mindset.

 

[xj0hnx]

This quote refers solely to the right-wing mindset.

This quote refers solely to the loony left mindset.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Fixed.

I'm fine with people clinging to faith if they feel it benefits them in some personal way. Don't then force that faith upon trusting kids who don't know any better or try to legislate that faith upon others (same sex marriage bans, "Intelligent Design," etc.) and we'll all get along fine.

Yep...if we just all had beliefs similar to yours and taught them to our kids...we'd all get along just peachy. Too funny.

 

[child of wonder]

Yep...if we just all had beliefs similar to yours and taught them to our kids...we'd all get along just peachy. Too funny.

I don't teach my kids to believe anything religious, if that's what you're getting at. I tell them that many people believe many different things and when they get to be older they can decide for themselves what they want to believe.

My parents being hard core Christians and my in-laws being Mormons don't make that an easy task, but my kids can make any religious decisions all on their own when they're adults.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I don't teach my kids to believe anything religious, if that's what you're getting at. I tell them that many people believe many different things and when they get to be older they can decide for themselves what they want to believe.

My parents being hard core Christians and my in-laws being Mormons don't make that an easy task, but my kids can make any religious decisions all on their own when they're adults.

Really...here's a thought....maybe it's OK for people to be different and have different beliefs than you. In fact...some would say diversity is a good thing.

So religion doesn't work for you...fine. But your initial comment comes across as incredibly egocentric to the point of being ridiculous. I'm thinking we need to teach our kids tolerance...the real deal, not some empty words full of hypocrisy.

 

[child of wonder]

Really...here's a thought....maybe it's OK for people to be different and have different beliefs than you. In fact...some would say diversity is a good thing.

So religion doesn't work for you...fine. But your initial comment comes across as incredibly egocentric to the point of being ridiculous. I'm thinking we need to teach our kids tolerance...the real deal, not some empty words full of hypocrisy.

Diversity is a good thing. We need people to have different beliefs. What we don't need is people saying "I believe in religious ideology 'A' so I will attempt to get my ideology taught in high school science classes."

IMO (and everyone feels differently) one's personal faith should be just that: personal. Being personal, it can hold no merit or weight with anyone else and only its owner can derive any meaning or comfort from it. When someone takes their personal beliefs and attempts to force it upon others then I have a problem with it and is exactly what I iterated in my post. It made no mention of anyone else believing anything that I do, just that people keep their faith to themselves and not use it as something to rule, dictate, or cojule others.

 

[shira]

This quote refers solely to the loony left mindset.

Excellent point! Let me amend my previous post:

The quote refers almost exclusively to the right-wing mindset, but also includes the mindset of the tiny minority of left-wingers holding loony ideas.

 

[shira]

lol. This is what makes P&N fun. Everyone knows this.

Yep. The constant give and take between - on the one hand - the blind, the bigoted, the bombastic, the boorish, and the bilious, and - on the other hand - the left.

 

[blackangst1]

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.”
~Stuart Chase

From someones sig, forgot who. My guess is he's referring to Xenu. Yea/Nay?

That would be my sig

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Diversity is a good thing. We need people to have different beliefs. What we don't need is people saying "I believe in religious ideology 'A' so I will attempt to get my ideology taught in high school science classes."

I agree...but, on the other hand, science classes need to teach that science does not (in any way shape or form) have anything to do with religion. Many people who believe in evolution (and rightly so IMO) also wrongly think evolution precludes the existence of a Creator. This distinction needs to be clearly taught in our schools as we have a lot of 'well educated' people that believe this common fallacy. If someone doesn't want to believe in a Creator...fine...but they need to recognize that the basis for their belief is not based on evolution or science.

IMO (and everyone feels differently) one's personal faith should be just that: personal. Being personal, it can hold no merit or weight with anyone else and only its owner can derive any meaning or comfort from it. When someone takes their personal beliefs and attempts to force it upon others then I have a problem with it and is exactly what I iterated in my post. It made no mention of anyone else believing anything that I do, just that people keep their faith to themselves and not use it as something to rule, dictate, or cojule others.

But you just got through telling me that the world would be a better place if everyone believed like you do...yet you villify others that do the same as you've done in this thread?!? Don't you see that! Seriously.

 

[child of wonder]

I agree...but, on the other hand, science classes need to teach that science does not (in any way shape or form) have anything to do with religion. Many people who believe in evolution (and rightly so IMO) also wrongly think evolution precludes the existence of a Creator. This distinction needs to be clearly taught in our schools as we have a lot of 'well educated' people that believe this common fallacy. If someone doesn't want to believe in a Creator...fine...but they need to recognize that the basis for their belief is not based on evolution or science.


But you just got through telling me that the world would be a better place if everyone believed like you do...yet you villify others that do the same as you've done in this thread?!? Don't you see that! Seriously.

I'm fine with people clinging to faith if they feel it benefits them in some personal way. Don't then force that faith upon trusting kids who don't know any better or try to legislate that faith upon others (same sex marriage bans, "Intelligent Design," etc.) and we'll all get along fine.

Where did I say here that everyone should believe what I do?

I am perfectly fine with people having faith. They should not force that faith on others such as kids who cannot know any better (young kids trust whatever their parents tell them) or by passing legislation to push their faith into others' lives, such as same sex marriage bans (whose primary opponents are cite religious reasons) or teaching "Intelligent Design" in high school science classes ("Intelligent Design" is a religious re-wording of Creationism).

The world would be a better place if people did not force their personal beliefs on others.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Where did I say here that everyone should believe what I do?

Right here:
"I'm fine with people clinging to faith if they feel it benefits them in some personal way. Don't then force that faith upon trusting kids who don't know any better or try to legislate that faith upon others (same sex marriage bans, "Intelligent Design," etc.) and we'll all get along fine."

So....you don't mind people believing differently than you as long as they actually don't advocate anything ("force their beliefs") in a way that conflicts with your beliefs....such as teaching their beliefs to their children or supporting a morality that conficts with yours. What I think I'm hearing from you is that people with different beliefs are OK as long as they don't actually do anything you disagree with...such as sex marriage bans, "Intelligent Design," etc. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you somehow.

I am perfectly fine with people having faith. They should not force that faith on others such as kids who cannot know any better (young kids trust whatever their parents tell them) or by passing legislation to push their faith into others' lives, such as same sex marriage bans (whose primary opponents are cite religious reasons) or teaching "Intelligent Design" in high school science classes ("Intelligent Design" is a religious re-wording of Creationism).

Do you have children? If so, don't you think that you've somehow directly or indirectly taught them your secular beliefs and value system? You say "they should not force their faith on others"...yet you are here in a public forum advocating ("forcing") your beliefs ("faith"). I'm not trying to cut you down or demean you...but how are you really much different than those you despise?

I'm not saying that you should put up with ID in the classroom or roll over on gay rights issues. Just don't expect others who believe differently than you to do what you yourself are rightly, unwilling and unable to do.

The world would be a better place if people did not force their personal beliefs on others.

This world is full of people who want you to believe a certain way...even you.

 

[shira]

I agree...but, on the other hand, science classes need to teach that science does not (in any way shape or form) have anything to do with religion. Many people who believe in evolution (and rightly so IMO) also wrongly think evolution precludes the existence of a Creator. This distinction needs to be clearly taught in our schools as we have a lot of 'well educated' people that believe this common fallacy. If someone doesn't want to believe in a Creator...fine...but they need to recognize that the basis for their belief is not based on evolution or science.

The CORRECT points to teach are:

(a) No amount of physical evidence constitutes either proof or disproof of the existence of a deity.
(b) The absence of an understanding as to the cause of a physical phenomenon in no way supports the hypothesis that the cause is supernatural.

 

[Moonbeam]

The CORRECT points to teach are:

(a) No amount of physical evidence constitutes either proof or disproof of the existence of a deity.
(b) The absence of an understanding as to the cause of a physical phenomenon in no way supports the hypothesis that the cause is supernatural.

Hence faith is by grace alone and by grace alone is it known.

 

[Moonbeam]

Right here:
"I'm fine with people clinging to faith if they feel it benefits them in some personal way. Don't then force that faith upon trusting kids who don't know any better or try to legislate that faith upon others (same sex marriage bans, "Intelligent Design," etc.) and we'll all get along fine."

So....you don't mind people believing differently than you as long as they actually don't advocate anything ("force their beliefs") in a way that conflicts with your beliefs....such as teaching their beliefs to their children or supporting a morality that conficts with yours. What I think I'm hearing from you is that people with different beliefs are OK as long as they don't actually do anything you disagree with...such as sex marriage bans, "Intelligent Design," etc. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you somehow.


Do you have children? If so, don't you think that you've somehow directly or indirectly taught them your secular beliefs and value system? You say "they should not force their faith on others"...yet you are here in a public forum advocating ("forcing") your beliefs ("faith"). I'm not trying to cut you down or demean you...but how are you really much different than those you despise?

I'm not saying that you should put up with ID in the classroom or roll over on gay rights issues. Just don't expect others who believe differently than you to do what you yourself are rightly, unwilling and unable to do.


This world is full of people who want you to believe a certain way...even you.

What I said and what he attacked was completely neutral, but he thinks I'm going to pollute my kids, hehe. He just projects the fact that he is polluted on me.

 

[child of wonder]

Right here:
"I'm fine with people clinging to faith if they feel it benefits them in some personal way. Don't then force that faith upon trusting kids who don't know any better or try to legislate that faith upon others (same sex marriage bans, "Intelligent Design," etc.) and we'll all get along fine."

So....you don't mind people believing differently than you as long as they actually don't advocate anything ("force their beliefs") in a way that conflicts with your beliefs....such as teaching their beliefs to their children or supporting a morality that conficts with yours. What I think I'm hearing from you is that people with different beliefs are OK as long as they don't actually do anything you disagree with...such as sex marriage bans, "Intelligent Design," etc. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you somehow.

People can state their opinions on whatever they want. What I'm opposing is someone saying "my religion says eating fish on Mondays is a sin so we should outlaw eating fish on Mondays!"

What I'm trying to say is that if someone's beliefs say homosexuality is a sin or that a divine being created the universe I do not oppose their right to those beliefs. I only oppose them taking those beliefs and imposing them on other people.

Do you have children? If so, don't you think that you've somehow directly or indirectly taught them your secular beliefs and value system? You say "they should not force their faith on others"...yet you are here in a public forum advocating ("forcing") your beliefs ("faith"). I'm not trying to cut you down or demean you...but how are you really much different than those you despise?

I'm not saying that you should put up with ID in the classroom or roll over on gay rights issues. Just don't expect others who believe differently than you to do what you yourself are rightly, unwilling and unable to do.


This world is full of people who want you to believe a certain way...even you.

I have little doubt my children pick up on my religious beliefs indirectly from me. That's human nature. When we talk about the subject directly, I tell them whatever they believe is something they should research and think about when they get to be closer to adulthood and to not worry about it right now.

We'll have to disagree that stating my beliefs on a public forum is a form of "force." I state my opinion and everyone is free to ignore them. Now, if I was petitioning the government to make changes per my personal beliefs, then I'm engaged in "force."

 

[Dr. Zaus]

People can state their opinions on whatever they want. What I'm opposing is someone saying "my religion says eating fish on Mondays is a sin so we should outlaw eating fish on Mondays!

Then what do we build the morays, folkways and laws of our society on?