Stronglifts + running?

[nixium]

I've been doing a 3x5 version of stronglifts. It's going well so far, but I ran into a couple of problems -

* My work life is hectic, so I can't make all workouts
* During the times I do a steady 3 workouts a week, I find recovery between workouts pretty hard. It's easier for me if I do it 2x a week.
* I have some interest in running.

There are a lot of advanced SS/Stronglifts program followers here, and I've had many questions answered before. Just wondering, does the following workout make sense?

M - Workout A (Squats/Bench Press/Inverted Rows/Pushups/Bridges)
T - Light cardio (Dance/Walk)
W - Run (start with 1 mile and add 0.2 miles per week)
R - Light Cardio
F - Workout B (Squats/Overhead Press/Deadlifts/Pullups/Reverse Crunches)
S/S - Rest

I feel this gives me the 2x a week that my body seems comfortable with, and the run on Wednesday combines my interest in running.

It might make sense to switch to an strength training program for runners.. but I really like the stronglifts exercises and the core workout it provides. Comments?


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Lots of interesting comments and feedback in this post .. thanks guys! Since this is a little experimental, I've decided to keep a journal in case anyone has an interest in seeing how this turns out. I'll summarize my weeks in this post. So the plan is:

Overall goals: Lost fat, maintain muscle, develop core strength, flexibility, and stamina. A sort of jack-of-all-trades plan.

Time period: Oct 09 - Dec 09.
End goals: As close to a body weight squat as I can get (170 lbs), 80% BW bench press, and the ability to run 4 miles.

-> SS 2x a week, with the middle workout substituted by a run (starting at 1 mile, adding a quarter mile per week.)
-> I did find 2.5 pound plates, so my weight progression is going to be +5 for squats/dl, and either +5 or +10 for the presses
-> The rest days are going to contain 1/2 hour of dynamic stretching, because of posterior imbalance issues (as documented in the excellent post by Briskis) and another 1/2 hour of walking or dancing.

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...ey=y&keyword1=lordosis

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[NGC_604]

Well first off, what are your goals? I think the advice you're going to get is dependent on that.

Personally, I think you should listen to your body. Give the 2x a week a try and see how you feel. If you feel better then perhaps that is the way to go.

 

[KingGheedora]

Should be fine with 2x a week. I wanted to do similar things. In June i started StrongLifts, and was only able to lift 2x a week more often than not. I got excellent results in just under 2 months.

There is nothing wrong with doing StrongLifts along with running. What's your fitness level like right now and have you run in the the past? You might want to do your mileage increases by % rather than absolute distance. You will take forever to progress if you stick to .2, but then again if you actually stick to it you will be running more than 99% of all of America in 3-4 months. What is your light cardio that involves dancing, classes at the gym? Or dancing in the privacy of your own home? Curious why you are doing "light cardio" 2x a week. Depends on your goal I guess, but if you are interested in running you might want to run on Tuesday and Thursday and either rest or do something else on wednesday. Running once a week isn't gonna get you a lot of progress whatever your running goal may be.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Alright, well, if you're only doing a 3x5 version of Stronglifts, there are some things I have to say to you. First of all, since you're only doing a 3x5, you're significantly reducing the volume that you're lifting. This overall effects how fast your gains are. Secondly, you need to lift every other day (MWF, TThS, whatever) so your body adapts. It will adapt rather quickly and you won't get sore anymore. Lack of soreness will allow you to work out without any problems induced by the last workout. If you really have trouble with work and can't work out three times a week, up the volume back to 5x5. The overall volume of the weight you lift really changes how your body responds. In only doing a 3x5, your body isn't getting as much out of it as it would a 5x5. This especially applies if your workout frequency is only twice a week.

If you want to be a runner then I'd say train for that. Two extra workout days a week would really help you pick up the pace. That's where your goals come into play. If you want to be well-rounded, then maybe something like this is pretty good. However, it's gonna slow your running progress down.

 

[nixium]

Originally posted by: KingGheedora
Should be fine with 2x a week. I wanted to do similar things. In June i started StrongLifts, and was only able to lift 2x a week more often than not. I got excellent results in just under 2 months.

There is nothing wrong with doing StrongLifts along with running. What's your fitness level like right now and have you run in the the past? You might want to do your mileage increases by % rather than absolute distance. You will take forever to progress if you stick to .2, but then again if you actually stick to it you will be running more than 99% of all of America in 3-4 months. What is your light cardio that involves dancing, classes at the gym? Or dancing in the privacy of your own home? Curious why you are doing "light cardio" 2x a week. Depends on your goal I guess, but if you are interested in running you might want to run on Tuesday and Thursday and either rest or do something else on wednesday. Running once a week isn't gonna get you a lot of progress whatever your running goal may be.

I've run in the past (but no more than 2 miles at a time.) At this point, I'm just interested in general fitness.. Stronglifts is just really hard for me to stick to 3x a day, full workouts. At the same time, I feel 2x a week and complete rest/light cardio for the next three days straight is too 'light' overall.. I want to do something for that 'middle' day that's not as strenuous as a full workout.

As for the 'light' cardio.. well my body type is an ectomorph (I think) and it's very easy for me to put on weight. The light cardio is a daily type of thing, just to keep my body active, since I have a pretty sedentary job otherwise.

I'm going to be dancing at home, but will join a salsa type class pretty quickly. Right now, I'm not so concerned about my running progress. If I do 0.2 - 0.25 a week, in about 3-4 months, i should be running 4 miles... which I'm OK with (I can always focus on the running if I like it that much.)

I suppose the overall point is that with this workout, I probably won't go that far either in weights or in running... But I should be OK with fat loss, overall fitness, core strength and flexibility, right?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: nixium
I've run in the past (but no more than 2 miles at a time.) At this point, I'm just interested in general fitness.. Stronglifts is just really hard for me to stick to 3x a day, full workouts. At the same time, I feel 2x a week and complete rest/light cardio for the next three days straight is too 'light' overall.. I want to do something for that 'middle' day that's not as strenuous as a full workout.

As for the 'light' cardio.. well my body type is an ectomorph (I think) and it's very easy for me to put on weight. The light cardio is a daily type of thing, just to keep my body active, since I have a pretty sedentary job otherwise.

I'm going to be dancing at home, but will join a salsa type class pretty quickly. Right now, I'm not so concerned about my running progress. If I do 0.2 - 0.25 a week, in about 3-4 months, i should be running 4 miles... which I'm OK with (I can always focus on the running if I like it that much.)

I suppose the overall point is that with this workout, I probably won't go that far either in weights or in running... But I should be OK with fat loss, overall fitness, core strength and flexibility, right?

Just a quick correction, ectomorphs have trouble keeping weight on. Endomorphs have trouble losing weight. Mesomorphs are in between.

 

[nixium]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Alright, well, if you're only doing a 3x5 version of Stronglifts, there are some things I have to say to you. First of all, since you're only doing a 3x5, you're significantly reducing the volume that you're lifting. This overall effects how fast your gains are. Secondly, you need to lift every other day (MWF, TThS, whatever) so your body adapts. It will adapt rather quickly and you won't get sore anymore. Lack of soreness will allow you to work out without any problems induced by the last workout. If you really have trouble with work and can't work out three times a week, up the volume back to 5x5. The overall volume of the weight you lift really changes how your body responds. In only doing a 3x5, your body isn't getting as much out of it as it would a 5x5. This especially applies if your workout frequency is only twice a week.

If you want to be a runner then I'd say train for that. Two extra workout days a week would really help you pick up the pace. That's where your goals come into play. If you want to be well-rounded, then maybe something like this is pretty good. However, it's gonna slow your running progress down.

Thanks for the advice. Being well-rounded is my goal, till the end of the year at least.

The reason I'm doing 3x5 is because my Gym doesn't have any 2.5 pound plates... So I can't go up by 5 pounds per workout, and going up by 10 is causing form problems (I have a "weak" lower back.) Instead, my progression is something like this:

On squats, for example:

Squats 3x5 W1
Squats 3x8 W1
Squats 3x5 W1 + 10
... and so on.

If I did the same thing with 5x5, I might be doing like 5x8, which is just insanely long!

Oh, one other thing. Due to my lower back problems, I'm not deadlifting till I hit 120 on squats (currently on 95.) On Deadlift days, I just do one additional rep of squats instead. The other problem is I can't deadlift light weights because the bar isn't at mid-shin; I figure if I can squat 120, then I can probably start deadlifting at 135. Comments?

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: nixium

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Alright, well, if you're only doing a 3x5 version of Stronglifts, there are some things I have to say to you. First of all, since you're only doing a 3x5, you're significantly reducing the volume that you're lifting. This overall effects how fast your gains are. Secondly, you need to lift every other day (MWF, TThS, whatever) so your body adapts. It will adapt rather quickly and you won't get sore anymore. Lack of soreness will allow you to work out without any problems induced by the last workout. If you really have trouble with work and can't work out three times a week, up the volume back to 5x5. The overall volume of the weight you lift really changes how your body responds. In only doing a 3x5, your body isn't getting as much out of it as it would a 5x5. This especially applies if your workout frequency is only twice a week.

If you want to be a runner then I'd say train for that. Two extra workout days a week would really help you pick up the pace. That's where your goals come into play. If you want to be well-rounded, then maybe something like this is pretty good. However, it's gonna slow your running progress down.

Thanks for the advice. Being well-rounded is my goal, till the end of the year at least.

The reason I'm doing 3x5 is because my Gym doesn't have any 2.5 pound plates... So I can't go up by 5 pounds per workout, and going up by 10 is causing form problems (I have a "weak" lower back.) Instead, my progression is something like this:

On squats, for example:

Squats 3x5 W1
Squats 3x8 W1
Squats 3x5 W1 + 10
... and so on.

If I did the same thing with 5x5, I might be doing like 5x8, which is just insanely long!

Oh, one other thing. Due to my lower back problems, I'm not deadlifting till I hit 120 on squats (currently on 95.) On Deadlift days, I just do one additional rep of squats instead. The other problem is I can't deadlift light weights because the bar isn't at mid-shin; I figure if I can squat 120, then I can probably start deadlifting at 135. Comments?

First, just buy 2.5 lb plates.

Second, deadlift. Even if you're just deadlifting 65 lbs, deadlift. Stack plates underneath the bar to make it the proper height. A deadlift and squat aren't the same exercise at all. Also, deadlifting with light weight will teach you proper form so you don't hurt your back. Jumping in at 135 lbs is asking to get hurt.

 

[katank]

Don't sub out DLs. If you aren't doing DLs, then you aren't doing Stronglifts. Watch lots of videos, practice with light weights, and take videos to post as form checks. Just doing the movement with just a bar (if necessary) will help you get the form down and provide the correct stimuli.

I'd also recommend you lift 3x a week. Doing cardio afterwards may actually be better. Having full days to recover is nice. That's my personal experience. YMMV.

 

[RagingBITCH]

If you're truly trying to get into running...you'll find that heavy squats/deadlifts absolutely tear up your legs. (They do to mine, my legs feel like lead weights trying to do anything from an easy run, hills, tempo runs, intervals, track workouts, and long runs)

I do a full body workout 2x a week - M/F - works out all body parts. One day emphasizes compound movements/barbells and heavier weights, the other more dumbbell based and lighter weights/higher reps. Just keep up current muscle mass and not become super lean/no muscle. People already complain that while yes, I'm ripped/lean/in better shape than I've ever been, that I'm not as big as I used to be.

 

[Pantlegz]

I tried to do a 5x5 3x a week as well as run, after my first run day my lifts were much weaker than they were before. I decided that it wasn't worth it for me, right now anyway. Once I'm ready to cut, I may lift lighter and throw in some running.

 

[nixium]

Here's progress so far:

Starting weights - Squat 85/No DL/Bench Press 85/OH Press 55.

I've done about two weeks on this program, and I'm liking it so far. The lack of the Wednesday lifting session really helps; I'm not as sore with the running - well, at least for now. Also, I've added in some body weight exercises on the running days (pushups, pullups, etc)

=====================================================================================
Lifts as of Week 3:

Squat - 95
Deadlift - 95 (I think I can probably do more than this, but I'm a little scared about lower back injuries until I get form down perfect)
Bench Press - 95
OH press - 60 (Plan to replace this with the BP)

Running: 2.5 miles @ 5.0.
=========================================================================================

On the off days, I'm doing some light cardio (dancing/walking/etc) combined with dynamic stretches.

I have to do a BF% check - goal is to get to about 10% (Probably close to 17 right now)

Questions -

* Can I replace OH press with the bench press, since I'm doing only 2x a week and my upper body is getting plenty of rest? I like the BP a lot more than the OP?

* My the back of my thighs (hamstrings, glutes, etc) feel very sore the next day, but quads are OK (barely feel any soreness.) Is this OK? The good news is that thanks to all those glute activation and hip mobility exercises, my lower back doesn't feel sore anymore.

Would greatly appreciate any comments/feedback.

Another note - for the couch potatoes out there - doing this program really makes you realize how out-of-shape your body gets after years of sitting. I used to be a relatively active person, but these exercises have exposed numerous weaknesses in my posture, musculature and overall physical habits. I'm glad I found them so that I can do something about it. For example, I found -

* Weak lower back
* Tight hamstrings/glutes
* Weak rotator cuffs
* Lack of stamina
* Horribly poor core strength.

These took a while to fix, but the fixing has been very useful. My posture has improved dramatically; I don't slouch as much, and my energy levels are high.

For couch-potatoish beginners, I would strongly recommend an SS/Stronglifts program, with the caveat that you really need to listen to your body, and be very very careful with your form.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: nixium

* Can I replace OH press with the bench press, since I'm doing only 2x a week and my upper body is getting plenty of rest? I like the BP a lot more than the OP?

* My the back of my thighs (hamstrings, glutes, etc) feel very sore the next day, but quads are OK (barely feel any soreness.) Is this OK? The good news is that thanks to all those glute activation and hip mobility exercises, my lower back doesn't feel sore anymore.

1) You can do whatever you'd like, but you're only following Stronglifts if you're doing what is programmed. As someone who is new to weightlifting, I would highly recommend sticking with the pre-made programming. Stronglifts is a great program designed by a guy who, no offense, has a lot more lifting experience than you. If you follow the programming and pursue a good diet, you will get big and strong.

edit: I see that you're only doing 2x / week. At that point I'd say that you should stick with the OHP. It's a much more functional movement than the bench press.

2) Yes. Stronglifts emphasizes posterior chain strength. If you were feeling soreness in your quads you would be doing something wrong on the squat.

If you're worried about your deadlift, post a video or two here. Take the video in profile, so we can see your alignment over the bar and your body posture.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: nixium

* Can I replace OH press with the bench press, since I'm doing only 2x a week and my upper body is getting plenty of rest? I like the BP a lot more than the OP?

No, you really can't. You may like bench press better, but that doesn't mean you should forget about a whole other movement. Shoulder press is a great exercise that needs to be done for functionality and balance, if you want to be well rounded. If you want to be a power lifter, then sure, cut it out. Until then, keep it in the workout.

Also, hamstring soreness is common, especially if you're keeping good hamstring tension during your squat/deadlift. You may also have a weak posterior chain so it's getting worked harder. Either way, you're fine. I've had the same problem before.