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Strength of 2nd amendment?

arcenite

arcenite

Lifer
So I live in NJ... I applied for a firearms purchasers ID and a permit for a hand gun.. If that is turned down for whatever reason, and I buy a gun anyway and register it... am I protected by federal law?
 
arcenite said:
So I live in NJ... I applied for a firearms purchasers ID and a permit for a hand gun.. If that is turned down for whatever reason, and I buy a gun anyway and register it... am I protected by federal law?
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Because of a supreme court ruling this year prohibiting you from owning a firearm is a civil rights violation. The 2nd amendment has been incorporated and violating it at the state level is illegal. The concept of strict scrutiny is also being brought up which basically means if the state can't come up with a very specific purpose for going against the 2nd amendment, they can't make a law against it - just like the 1st.

With that being said, you'd need some good lawyers to take the case with your state's laws to the supreme court. The 2nd amendment foundation may even do the case for you.

Learn more here:
http://www.saf.org/
 
spidey07 said:
Because of a supreme court ruling this year prohibiting you from owning a firearm is a civil rights violation. The 2nd amendment has been incorporated and violating it at the state level is illegal. The concept of strict scrutiny is also being brought up which basically means if the state can't come up with a very specific purpose for going against the 2nd amendment, they can't make a law against it - just like the 1st.

With that being said, you'd need some good lawyers to take the case with your state's laws to the supreme court. The 2nd amendment foundation may even do the case for you.

Learn more here:
http://www.saf.org/
Click to expand...

errr he's not talking about a law prohibiting people from owning firearms. He's talking about being denied a permit under the existing law and then still purchasing a firearm. Not really going to take the time to look up Constitutional challenges to NJ's firearms laws, but I assume it or something similar has already been challenged.

And lets not forget the SC said nothing prohibits a state from instituting reasonable controls/permitting processes. Is this reasonable? Hell if I know - but probably not a good idea to be the guinea pig by purchasing a gun anyway when the state denies you a permit.
 
Jeeebus said:
errr he's not talking about a law prohibiting people from owning firearms. He's talking about being denied a permit under the existing law and then still purchasing a firearm. Not really going to take the time to look up Constitutional challenges to NJ's firearms laws, but I assume it or something similar has already been challenged.

And lets not forget the SC said nothing prohibits a state from instituting reasonable controls/permitting processes. Is this reasonable? Hell if I know - but probably not a good idea to be the guinea pig by purchasing a gun anyway when the state denies you a permit.
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This. Just wondering Jeebus, you a gun owner?
 
Jeeebus said:
No, though we might get one at some point.
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Ah. Bummer, I've been looking for people in the area with which to go shooting. Sure, there's some catharsis to heading to the range solo and letting loose a few hundred rounds .. but it gets a bit boring sometimes. 😛
 
Jeeebus said:
errr he's not talking about a law prohibiting people from owning firearms. He's talking about being denied a permit under the existing law and then still purchasing a firearm. Not really going to take the time to look up Constitutional challenges to NJ's firearms laws, but I assume it or something similar has already been challenged.

And lets not forget the SC said nothing prohibits a state from instituting reasonable controls/permitting processes. Is this reasonable? Hell if I know - but probably not a good idea to be the guinea pig by purchasing a gun anyway when the state denies you a permit.
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Having to have a permit to purchase a handgun IS going to be ruled unconstitutional, it just hasn't gotten to the SC. I agree it wouldn't be good to break an existing law, you could forfeit your ability to own a firearm for life (convicted felon).

The reason this specific state law hasn't already been challenged is because they're targeting other state's laws first. This years ruling on 2nd amendment being incorporated changes everything. Everything.
 
TheVrolok said:
Ah. Bummer, I've been looking for people in the area with which to go shooting. Sure, there's some catharsis to heading to the range solo and letting loose a few hundred rounds .. but it gets a bit boring sometimes. 😛
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I go shooting occasionally with the father-in-law (retired cop). In fact, there's an outdoor shooting range adjacent to my firm's building. I hear the gentle pop of gunshots several times a day from my office. Last week, I swore someone was shooting long nines from a pirate ship it was so loud.

Of course, if they knew there was a law firm over here, I'd probably want to stay away from the windows.


Oh, and Spidey, I'm too lazy to pull up either Heller (the case, not the retard) or the City of Chicago case, but you might want to re-read both.
 
The City of Chicago was the big one (McDonald I think?). It declared the 2nd amendment a "Fundamental Civil Right". Once classified as that all kinds of protections kick in, and as a result of that ruling you're seeing all kinds of lawsuits being filed against states requiring a permit, paying a fee to purchase or own a firearm, etc. Most all of that will be ruled unconstitutional. It takes time and the cases need to get to the SC, but that's the end result of the monumental Chicago ruling.
 
I'm pretty sure I've seen this discussed on the pafoa.org site, might want to check there. They don't have a search function so use google and specify "site😛afoa.org" as part of your search. That works pretty well for me.
 
arcenite said:
So I live in NJ... I applied for a firearms purchasers ID and a permit for a hand gun.. If that is turned down for whatever reason, and I buy a gun anyway and register it... am I protected by federal law?
Click to expand...

Wait you have to have a permit to buy a handgun there? WTF. Move. I wouldn't stand for that crap.

There are checks here - you can't have committed a felony or things of that nature and still purchase one but other than that you don't have to have a permit to buy a gun. What the fuck kind of crazy backward shit is that?
 
Numenorean said:
Wait you have to have a permit to buy a handgun there? WTF. Move. I wouldn't stand for that crap.

There are checks here - you can't have committed a felony or things of that nature and still purchase one but other than that you don't have to have a permit to buy a gun. What the fuck kind of crazy backward shit is that?
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It's one of the screwed up states like CA, IL, NY, etc. There's 5 of them I think.
 
Jeeebus said:
I wasn't aware that Spidey was recently added as the 10th Supreme Court justice and that his opinion overruled the 9 others.
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I followed the case and ruling very closely. That was the logical conclusion of the impact of that ruling in the McDonald case. The SAF is smart, their cases are part of a larger plan to build precedent to knock over the tougher ones, they're going after the low hanging fruit so to speak before they tackle the big ones like NFA.
 
The 2nd amendment does not in anyway declare it a constitutional right for every civilian to own a handgun.
 
Malak said:
The 2nd amendment does not in anyway declare it a constitutional right for every civilian to own a handgun.
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So now you just make up whatever fits your agenda?

The Bill of Rights assures rights to the People of the United States, not the government. The malitia refered to is the People.

Also it's not just for handguns, it's for all arms. Handguns, Rifles, Cannons, ect. anything that is classified as an Arm should be covered (but isn't.....yet)
 
JeffreyLebowski said:
So now you just make up whatever fits your agenda?

The Bill of Rights assures rights to the People of the United States, not the government. The malitia refered to is the People.

Also it's not just for handguns, it's for all arms. Handguns, Rifles, Cannons, ect. anything that is classified as an Arm should be covered (but isn't.....yet)
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No, the militia refers to the militia, a typical way to defend a country hundreds of years ago(and still in some countries) when the country cannot afford a standing army. This changed when America became more solidified in its government and a standing army was created.
 
Here we go again ...

The OP asks a simple question and then all hell breaks loose. Nothing good is going to come from this. The OP probably made this up just to stir the pot. I can't wait to read more inputs from arm-chair chief justices and expert interpreters of the constitution.
 
Malak said:
No, the militia refers to the militia, a typical way to defend a country hundreds of years ago(and still in some countries) when the country cannot afford a standing army. This changed when America became more solidified in its government and a standing army was created.
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As typical with your type you don't understand the full scope of an issue. the Militia IS the people.
At the time of the writing of the Bill of Rights the militia consisted of ALL able bodied men, the only reason it didn't say people was that they didn't expect women to fight.

Get a clue, get an education and learn what the Bill of Rights is about. It's about WE THE PEOPLE. Not What the government shall allow it's peasants.
 
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