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STRATEGY: Sparing civilians leads to heavier casualties

Tominator

Diamond Member
Toughest Day...

Without the power of the US Military, which is unequaled, there would be THOUSANDS of non-combatants killed. It is the technology provided by the US taxpayer that makes this war, and the liberation of Iraq possible.

A two-edged sword to be sure!
 
BUMP!


Fun fact, we are still in this war.
Many of you have become married, divorced, and married again in the same amount of time it takes America to get the fuck out of that quagmire.
 
Also, spoiler: there were still massive civilian casualties, including the ripple effect of fostering ISIS and otherwise destabilizing the region. Turns out that the best solution to minimizing civilian deaths is to avoid entering a war on false pretenses.
 
Holy necro thread Batman! Meanwhile, in Afghanistan, we made peace with the Taliban, forgot to include “don’t attack the Afghan government” in the peace agreement, and they launched 44 attacks this week.
 
Holy necro thread Batman! Meanwhile, in Afghanistan, we made peace with the Taliban, forgot to include “don’t attack the Afghan government” in the peace agreement, and they launched 44 attacks this week.
Yet I'm sure Trump's cheerleaders won't mention those attacks when touting how wonderful a negotiator Trump is.
 
I wrote to Senator McCain in late December, 2002. "Stop the President!" I urged. I had been on top of the news concerning Scott Ritter -- the American UN official and his pronouncement that Saddam had no WMDs. I was on-board when Senator Byrd filibustered funding for Bush's war.

An unexpected reply arrived around middle of January -- dated the 14th. It was a two-page, 12-pitch, single-spaced letter signed in blue ink by the Senator, enumerating "all the WMDs" accumulated by Saddam Hussein. Legislators likely keep a database of recent response boiler-plate text. They use a device called an "auto-pen" for creating a signature and a personal touch for the recipient. So don't accuse me of boasting of getting McCain's personal attention.

I laughed. I laughed for several weeks. But there was nobody with whom to make a bet. So I bet myself: "They ain't no WMDs!" And my respect for the Senator receded significantly. Today, we look at his treatment by the Virus in the White House, and see him in a different light.

And, of course, this was confirmed in the aftermath by the CIA and other parties. A year later, FOX news announced daily for a full week that "Ted Kennedy would deliver a speech at the National Press Club" -- to be broadcast on FOX, criticizing Bush for his decision. I waited. And I waited.

The scheduled date arrived. Ted Kennedy appeared, slamming the Bush administration -- for all of three minutes. The Senator's abridged remarks were followed by at least a half-hour's comment from the FOX pundits.

I know about the National Press Club. I had attended presentations there several times during my work-life inside the Beltway. Those presentations don't take a mere three minutes. The CEO of Marriot Corporation had once consumed my entire lunch hour, and I had to leave before he finished.

So I scanned the TV guide and flipped the channel to CSPAN. Kennedy's speech was 40 minutes long. If I didn't have the presence of mind, I would've missed it.

For a $3 trillion+ unnecessary war that upset the uneasy status-quo of a (past and current) Cold War hot-spot, I should be paid something for my prescience. If people had listened to me before March, 2003, and if they had done something in response to stop Bush's impulsive choice, we would've saved the $3 trillion, avoided 4,000 American deaths and many more injured and crippled. Al Baghdadi would not have created ISIS, causing an extended quagmire. Less likely anyone would have politicized Obama and his "red-line in the sand" remark. Less likely that the current Asshole-in-Chief could make a cluster-fuck of blunders.

And perhaps there would've been an earlier response to the 2007/08 financial crisis, or its impact would not have been so great.

Ah! But I'm just the little guy! The Nobody! [Even if I predicted 911 the night before it happened, sitting around a campfire in the North Cascades . . . People can be forgiven for not heeding a warning I made to the trees and the breeze five hours before Ground Zero . . . ]
 
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I wrote to Senator McCain in late December, 2002. "Stop the President!" I urged. I had been on top of the news concerning Scott Ritter -- the American UN official and his pronouncement that Saddam had no WMDs. I was on-board when Senator Byrd filibustered funding for Bush's war.

An unexpected reply arrived around middle of January -- dated the 14th. It was a two-page, 12-pitch, single-spaced letter signed in blue ink by the Senator, enumerating "all the WMDs" accumulated by Saddam Hussein. Legislators likely keep a database of recent response boiler-plate text. They use a device called an "auto-pen" for creating a signature and a personal touch for the recipient. So don't accuse me of boasting of getting McCain's personal attention.

I laughed. I laughed for several weeks. But there was nobody with whom to make a bet. So I bet myself: "They ain't no WMDs!" And my respect for the Senator receded significantly. Today, we look at his treatment by the Virus in the White House, and see him in a different light.

And, of course, this was confirmed in the aftermath by the CIA and other parties. A year later, FOX news announced daily for a full week that "Ted Kennedy would deliver a speech at the National Press Club" -- to be broadcast on FOX, criticizing Bush for his decision. I waited. And I waited.

The scheduled date arrived. Ted Kennedy appeared, slamming the Bush administration -- for all of three minutes. The Senator's abridged remarks were followed by at least a half-hour's comment from the FOX pundits.

I know about the National Press Club. I had attended presentations there several times during my work-life inside the Beltway. Those presentations don't take a mere three minutes. The CEO of Marriot Corporation had once consumed my entire lunch hour, and I had to leave before he finished.

So I scanned the TV guide and flipped the channel to CSPAN. Kennedy's speech was 40 minutes long. If I didn't have the presence of mind, I would've missed it.

For a $3 trillion+ unnecessary war that upset the uneasy status-quo of a (past and current) Cold War hot-spot, I should be paid something for my prescience. If people had listened to me before March, 2003, and if they had done something in response to stop Bush's impulsive choice, we would've saved the $3 trillion, avoided 4,000 American deaths and many more injured and crippled. Al Baghdadi would not have created ISIS, causing an extended quagmire. Less likely anyone would have politicized Obama and his "red-line in the sand" remark. Less likely that the current Asshole-in-Chief could make a cluster-fuck of blunders.

And perhaps there would've been an earlier response to the 2007/08 financial crisis, or its impact would not have been so great.

Ah! But I'm just the little guy! The Nobody! [Even if I predicted 911 the night before it happened, sitting around a campfire in the North Cascades . . . People can be forgiven for not heeding a warning I made to the trees and the breeze five hours before Ground Zero . . . ]

The sad thing is that it became increasingly clear the justifications for going in were bunk the closer the US edged toward an invasion. Like how the US only reluctantly agreed to allow inspectors into Iraq, but cut them off as quickly as it could. It was like trying to placate a 3-year-old who wants cookies right this very minute.

Bush admin: "We need to invade now!"

World: "But we should really verify that there are WMDs before such an operation..."

B: "No, now! We need to invade now!"

W: "Can you at least let us send in some inspectors?"

B: "Okay, fine... so, can we invade now?"

W: "But they've barely done any work, and there's still no evidence!"

B: "That's enough! We need to invade now! Now now now now now now now now!"
 
OP's got the ultimate trump card though: Even more people would have died without the power of the US military.

"What about when the US kinda, you know, sat out the sectarian strife/civil war following the downfall of Sadda..."

"Shut-Up"
 
BUMP!


Fun fact, we are still in this war.
Many of you have become married, divorced, and married again in the same amount of time it takes America to get the fuck out of that quagmire.
What's even crazier for me is that our son was born in June of 2003 so it is crazy to think that we was born the year this war was started and in a couple of months could be drafted to fight in this war when he turns 18.

No w I know he won'r be drafted but just the thought of the timeline of this war is mind blowing.
 
I am so glad there's no more drafting but given the number of volunteers we have it's still possible to carry on pointless wars indefinitely. I think we need to somehow convince the billionaires its NOT in their best interest to stay in Iraq and Afghanistan. I promise things would change quickly then.
 
I am so glad there's no more drafting but given the number of volunteers we have it's still possible to carry on pointless wars indefinitely. I think we need to somehow convince the billionaires its NOT in their best interest to stay in Iraq and Afghanistan. I promise things would change quickly then.
So you want to convince billionaires that money is not in their best interest?

Good luck with that.
 
What's even crazier for me is that our son was born in June of 2003 so it is crazy to think that we was born the year this war was started and in a couple of months could be drafted to fight in this war when he turns 18.

No w I know he won'r be drafted but just the thought of the timeline of this war is mind blowing.

that would be really weird if your son gets drafted.
 
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