Stores asking for additional ID when using CC... I thought it wasn't allowed.

[mugs]

Originally posted by: BigToque

Originally posted by: mugs
Man you suck at reading... you keep saying they are not allowed to ask you for ID. They ARE allowed to ask you for ID. They are not allowed to refuse service based on refusal to show ID. That's where they went wrong.

If a store is asking you for ID when you make a purchase, they're making that ID a requirement for the purchase.

No, they're not.

I have yet to see a place that asked for ID that allowed me to make my purchase after refusing to show my ID.

That's nice and all, but they're not violating their Mastercard (or Visa) merchant agreement UNTIL they refuse.

 

[MrPickins]

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
all my cards says "SEE ID" where you're supposed to have your signature. I'm hardly ever asked for my ID and when I am I thank the person.

Same here.

:thumbsup:

 

[RossMAN]

The signature is worn out on my two favorite cc's.

 

[Kelemvor]

I wish Credit Cards would have my picture on the front like my health club card and things like that. Much harder for someone to use it if it gets stolen since they just look at the guy.

But technically, Yes, it's against the agreement the merchant has with Visa or Mastercard if they do that. I'd call up the number on the back of the card and complain that you were refused service because you wouldn't show ID.

Technically it's just for your own safety when they do it but they aren't supposed to.

My wife writes "See ID" on the back of her card, also for security reasons, but even that invalidates the card and no one has to accept it. Only place she ever has trouble is the Post office though.

 

[MegaVovaN]

Man these "sign cc or not?"

"they be (not) asking me ID!!111"


threads are getting boring. We must get at least two of these a week...

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Kelemvor
I wish Credit Cards would have my picture on the front like my health club card and things like that. Much harder for someone to use it if it gets stolen since they just look at the guy.

But technically, Yes, it's against the agreement the merchant has with Visa or Mastercard if they do that. I'd call up the number on the back of the card and complain that you were refused service because you wouldn't show ID.

Technically it's just for your own safety when they do it but they aren't supposed to.

My wife writes "See ID" on the back of her card, also for security reasons, but even that invalidates the card and no one has to accept it. Only place she ever has trouble is the Post office though.

Wrong.




Guys..it's not that complicated..

From the OP...

A merchant must not refuse to complete a MasterCard card transaction solely
because a cardholder who has complied with the conditions for presentment
of a card at the POI refuses to provide additional identification information,
except as specifically permitted or required by the Standards. A merchant may
require additional identification from the cardholder if the information is
required to complete the transaction, such as for shipping purposes. A
merchant in a country or region that supports use of the MasterCard Address
Verification Service (AVS) may require the cardholder?s ZIP or postal code to
complete a cardholder-activated terminal (CAT) transaction, or the cardholder?s
address and ZIP or postal code to complete a mail order, phone order, or
e-commerce transaction.

Another section from their policy:

2.1.1.2 Determine if the Card is Valid
The card acceptor must complete the following steps to determine whether
each card presented is a valid MasterCard card:

For unique transactions processed in a face-to-face environment (with the
exception of truck stop transactions and card-read transactions where a
non-signature CVM is used), request personal identification of the
cardholder in the form of an unexpired, official government document.
Compare the signature on the personal identification with the signature on
the card.

Or am I missing something completely obvious?

 

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
all my cards says "SEE ID" where you're supposed to have your signature. I'm hardly ever asked for my ID and when I am I thank the person.

From the "Rules for Visa Merchants"

Some customers write ?See ID? or ?Ask for ID? in the signature panel, thinking
that this is a deterrent against fraud or forgery; that is, if their signature is not on
the card, a fraudster will not be able to forge it . In reality, criminals don?t take the
time to practice signatures: they use cards as quickly as possible after a theft and
prior to the accounts being blocked . They are actually counting on you not to look
at the back of the card and compare signatures?they may even have access to
counterfeit identification with a signature in their own handwriting .
?See ID? or ?Ask for ID? is not a valid substitute for a signature . The customer
must sign the card in your presence, as stated above .

If my wallet is stolen and they "have to" compare to the name on my signature to the name/photo on my license or ID, I have a better chance of it not being used since some petty theif isn't going to take the time to get a fake id with my name on it. Of course, if they don't check at all then a signature or a see id request will make no difference anyway.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
all my cards says "SEE ID" where you're supposed to have your signature. I'm hardly ever asked for my ID and when I am I thank the person.

From the "Rules for Visa Merchants"

Some customers write ?See ID? or ?Ask for ID? in the signature panel, thinking
that this is a deterrent against fraud or forgery; that is, if their signature is not on
the card, a fraudster will not be able to forge it . In reality, criminals don?t take the
time to practice signatures: they use cards as quickly as possible after a theft and
prior to the accounts being blocked . They are actually counting on you not to look
at the back of the card and compare signatures?they may even have access to
counterfeit identification with a signature in their own handwriting .
?See ID? or ?Ask for ID? is not a valid substitute for a signature . The customer
must sign the card in your presence, as stated above .

If my wallet is stolen and they "have to" compare to the name on my signature to the name/photo on my license or ID, I have a better chance of it not being used since some petty theif isn't going to take the time to get a fake id with my name on it. Of course, if they don't check at all then a signature or a see id request will make no difference anyway.

No, you don't get it... merchants aren't even supposed to accept your card from YOU when you write "See ID" on the back unless you sign it in their presence. Signing the back of the card constitutes agreement to the cardholder agreement.

 

[MrPickins]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
all my cards says "SEE ID" where you're supposed to have your signature. I'm hardly ever asked for my ID and when I am I thank the person.

From the "Rules for Visa Merchants"

Some customers write ?See ID? or ?Ask for ID? in the signature panel, thinking
that this is a deterrent against fraud or forgery; that is, if their signature is not on
the card, a fraudster will not be able to forge it . In reality, criminals don?t take the
time to practice signatures: they use cards as quickly as possible after a theft and
prior to the accounts being blocked . They are actually counting on you not to look
at the back of the card and compare signatures?they may even have access to
counterfeit identification with a signature in their own handwriting .
?See ID? or ?Ask for ID? is not a valid substitute for a signature . The customer
must sign the card in your presence, as stated above .

If my wallet is stolen and they "have to" compare to the name on my signature to the name/photo on my license or ID, I have a better chance of it not being used since some petty theif isn't going to take the time to get a fake id with my name on it. Of course, if they don't check at all then a signature or a see id request will make no difference anyway.

No, you don't get it... merchants aren't even supposed to accept your card from YOU when you write "See ID" on the back unless you sign it in their presence. Signing the back of the card constitutes agreement to the cardholder agreement.

I do both. Sign, then write "See ID" really small above it.

 

[fstime]

Back when I used to be a Cashier, we asked for an ID for purchases over $500 and for sure if they were over $1000.

And we wrote the customers license # on our receipt copy.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
all my cards says "SEE ID" where you're supposed to have your signature. I'm hardly ever asked for my ID and when I am I thank the person.

From the "Rules for Visa Merchants"

Some customers write ?See ID? or ?Ask for ID? in the signature panel, thinking
that this is a deterrent against fraud or forgery; that is, if their signature is not on
the card, a fraudster will not be able to forge it . In reality, criminals don?t take the
time to practice signatures: they use cards as quickly as possible after a theft and
prior to the accounts being blocked . They are actually counting on you not to look
at the back of the card and compare signatures?they may even have access to
counterfeit identification with a signature in their own handwriting .
?See ID? or ?Ask for ID? is not a valid substitute for a signature . The customer
must sign the card in your presence, as stated above .

If my wallet is stolen and they "have to" compare to the name on my signature to the name/photo on my license or ID, I have a better chance of it not being used since some petty theif isn't going to take the time to get a fake id with my name on it. Of course, if they don't check at all then a signature or a see id request will make no difference anyway.

No, you don't get it... merchants aren't even supposed to accept your card from YOU when you write "See ID" on the back unless you sign it in their presence. Signing the back of the card constitutes agreement to the cardholder agreement.

Which brings us full circle to the point that the whole system is screwed up. The banks are pushing easy credit so hard that they don't care if someone else gets ripped off due to their own policies.:|

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

It happens to me especially in low class places like where I go to school.... Berkeley.

I've almos tnever had it happen back at home in the Silicon Valley. Low class places FTL.

 

[bluestrobe]

I get asked for my ID all the time with my debit/visa card. Threads like this make me sad.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: marvdmartian
I actually THANK the checkout person when they ask me for identification. I look at it this way......how bad would it suck, if someone got ahold of your credit card, and was going around town on a shopping spree, and no one ever asked them to verify they were you?? Oh yeah, most of them don't, do they??

Far as I'm concerned, it should be required. No id, no sale, period.

I couldn't care less if some one stole my credit card and used it. It isn't may problem or my money.

And who pays for cc fraud? Everyone in higher prices.

Wrong, Merchants with lower profits.

Retailer's profits are not my problem.

So the merchants have two choices: Raise prices to make up the difference, or go out of business. Which means that you're paying more. Get it?

As for "not my problem"...the world would be a much better place without your kind. Sadly, you were already born, and I suppose something in your upbringing broke you...it is too bad that we can't go back and do whatever is necessary to make sure you develop into a fully responsible adult, but it's too late now. All we can do is try to do a better job on the next generation.

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

Whenever I bought something with a credit card in the US, I could have written "You are a tool" or similar on all of the slips cos the employees were giving the card back before I'd even signed.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: BigToque

Originally posted by: LoKe
Did you sign the back of your card?

Yes, my card is signed.

I just wrote to Mastercard. I'll see what they say.

You're going to be very suprised when Mastercard tells you they arent in charge of every business in the world.

Businesses make their own rules. They can choose to not sell Maxim to anyone under the age of 18. Even if the state decided Maxim didnt need to have an age limit the stores can sill make their own policy on it. Ageism is legal.
Racism is not. If a store came up with a policy that they only wanted to admit whites they would find themselves in a world of trouble.

Same with how they conduct sales with things like credit cards and checks. They can choose not to take them at all, or have certain requirements for their use.
If you dont like them dont patron them.

As for all the "Terms of Use" nonsense: If MC gets all uppity the worst they could do is decide not to support the store in question (which is a business decision, not a legal one).
Then you would see all the Mastercard stickers peeled off the registers, but thats it.
The Mastercard corporation cant actually tell other businesses how to conduct their business. They're a company, not a government agency. They can just choose to not deal with the store.

 

[TitanDiddly]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: marvdmartian
I actually THANK the checkout person when they ask me for identification. I look at it this way......how bad would it suck, if someone got ahold of your credit card, and was going around town on a shopping spree, and no one ever asked them to verify they were you?? Oh yeah, most of them don't, do they??

Far as I'm concerned, it should be required. No id, no sale, period.

I couldn't care less if some one stole my credit card and used it. It isn't may problem or my money.

People like you are what is wrong with this world.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: marvdmartian
I actually THANK the checkout person when they ask me for identification. I look at it this way......how bad would it suck, if someone got ahold of your credit card, and was going around town on a shopping spree, and no one ever asked them to verify they were you?? Oh yeah, most of them don't, do they??

Far as I'm concerned, it should be required. No id, no sale, period.

I couldn't care less if some one stole my credit card and used it. It isn't may problem or my money.

And who pays for cc fraud? Everyone in higher prices.

Wrong, Merchants with lower profits.

Retailer's profits are not my problem.

So the merchants have two choices: Raise prices to make up the difference, or go out of business. Which means that you're paying more. Get it?

As for "not my problem"...the world would be a much better place without your kind. Sadly, you were already born, and I suppose something in your upbringing broke you...it is too bad that we can't go back and do whatever is necessary to make sure you develop into a fully responsible adult, but it's too late now. All we can do is try to do a better job on the next generation.

Are you going to pay more at a store because they have high shrink? I'm not if the store raises price by 10% I will go shop somewhere else.

Every store is already chargine the price highest price the market will bear. Raising price would reduce sales. I don't get where people get this idea that stores can just say I want to net X and we can raise prices to make it happen.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: TitanDiddly

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: marvdmartian
I actually THANK the checkout person when they ask me for identification. I look at it this way......how bad would it suck, if someone got ahold of your credit card, and was going around town on a shopping spree, and no one ever asked them to verify they were you?? Oh yeah, most of them don't, do they??

Far as I'm concerned, it should be required. No id, no sale, period.

I couldn't care less if some one stole my credit card and used it. It isn't may problem or my money.

People like you are what is wrong with this world.

 

[Kelemvor]

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Originally posted by: Kelemvor
I wish Credit Cards would have my picture on the front like my health club card and things like that. Much harder for someone to use it if it gets stolen since they just look at the guy.

But technically, Yes, it's against the agreement the merchant has with Visa or Mastercard if they do that. I'd call up the number on the back of the card and complain that you were refused service because you wouldn't show ID.

Technically it's just for your own safety when they do it but they aren't supposed to.

My wife writes "See ID" on the back of her card, also for security reasons, but even that invalidates the card and no one has to accept it. Only place she ever has trouble is the Post office though.

Wrong.

Umm, nothing I Saw was wrong. It's all exactly correct.

According to the TOA that Mastercard and Visa have with people who accept thei cards as payment:
Companies aren't allowed to have a minimum purchase amount to use a CC, but some do.
They aren't allowed to charge you an extra fee for using a CC, but some do.
They aren't allowed to REQUIRE you to show ID in order to use a CC, but some do.

But Mastercard probably isn't going to do anything about it so either just do it, or take your business elsewhere.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Kelemvor

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Originally posted by: Kelemvor
I wish Credit Cards would have my picture on the front like my health club card and things like that. Much harder for someone to use it if it gets stolen since they just look at the guy.

But technically, Yes, it's against the agreement the merchant has with Visa or Mastercard if they do that. I'd call up the number on the back of the card and complain that you were refused service because you wouldn't show ID.

Technically it's just for your own safety when they do it but they aren't supposed to.

My wife writes "See ID" on the back of her card, also for security reasons, but even that invalidates the card and no one has to accept it. Only place she ever has trouble is the Post office though.

Wrong.

Umm, nothing I Saw was wrong. It's all exactly correct.

According to the TOA that Mastercard and Visa have with people who accept thei cards as payment:
Companies aren't allowed to have a minimum purchase amount to use a CC, but some do.
They aren't allowed to charge you an extra fee for using a CC, but some do.
They aren't allowed to REQUIRE you to show ID in order to use a CC, but some do.

But Mastercard probably isn't going to do anything about it so either just do it, or take your business elsewhere.

*sigh*

Originally posted by: CadetLee
2.1.1.2 Determine if the Card is Valid
The card acceptor must complete the following steps to determine whether
each card presented is a valid MasterCard card:

For unique transactions processed in a face-to-face environment (with the
exception of truck stop transactions and card-read transactions where a
non-signature CVM is used), request personal identification of the
cardholder in the form of an unexpired, official government document.
Compare the signature on the personal identification with the signature on
the card.

 

[Drakkon]

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Originally posted by: CadetLee
2.1.1.2 Determine if the Card is Valid
The card acceptor must complete the following steps to determine whether
each card presented is a valid MasterCard card:

For unique transactions processed in a face-to-face environment (with the
exception of truck stop transactions and card-read transactions where a
non-signature CVM is used), request personal identification of the
cardholder in the form of an unexpired, official government document.
Compare the signature on the personal identification with the signature on
the card.

Quotd because apprently people cant read. When i worked retail so many years ago this was the required step to process a CC. Nowadays I hardly ever have the person look at my card even let alone my DL.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Originally posted by: Kelemvor
I wish Credit Cards would have my picture on the front like my health club card and things like that. Much harder for someone to use it if it gets stolen since they just look at the guy.

But technically, Yes, it's against the agreement the merchant has with Visa or Mastercard if they do that. I'd call up the number on the back of the card and complain that you were refused service because you wouldn't show ID.

Technically it's just for your own safety when they do it but they aren't supposed to.

My wife writes "See ID" on the back of her card, also for security reasons, but even that invalidates the card and no one has to accept it. Only place she ever has trouble is the Post office though.

Wrong.




Guys..it's not that complicated..

From the OP...

A merchant must not refuse to complete a MasterCard card transaction solely
because a cardholder who has complied with the conditions for presentment
of a card at the POI refuses to provide additional identification information,
except as specifically permitted or required by the Standards. A merchant may
require additional identification from the cardholder if the information is
required to complete the transaction, such as for shipping purposes. A
merchant in a country or region that supports use of the MasterCard Address
Verification Service (AVS) may require the cardholder?s ZIP or postal code to
complete a cardholder-activated terminal (CAT) transaction, or the cardholder?s
address and ZIP or postal code to complete a mail order, phone order, or
e-commerce transaction.

Another section from their policy:

2.1.1.2 Determine if the Card is Valid
The card acceptor must complete the following steps to determine whether
each card presented is a valid MasterCard card:

For unique transactions processed in a face-to-face environment (with the
exception of truck stop transactions and card-read transactions where a
non-signature CVM is used), request personal identification of the
cardholder in the form of an unexpired, official government document.
Compare the signature on the personal identification with the signature on
the card.

Or am I missing something completely obvious?

Yes it is called the header

[/quote]2.1 Acceptance Procedures
The following sections contain acceptance procedures excerpted in previous
editions from the Bylaws and Rules manual; however, effective with the
October 2002 edition of the guide, these acceptance procedures were removed
from the Bylaws and Rules manual and may be found only here.[/quote]

 

[Mucho]

I am guessing they do it randomly, just yesterday at Ikea they ask the guy ahead of me paying with Visa to show his ID but not me.

 

[jlee]

Yes it is called the header

http://www.mastercard.com/us/w...ard_Merchant_Rules.pdf

2.1 Acceptance Procedures
2.1.1 Acceptance Procedures for Purchase Transactions
The following sections contain information and requirements relevant to the
card acceptor?s acceptance procedures for purchase transactions.
2.1.1.1 Card Must be Present
A MasterCard card must be presented to the card acceptor for all transactions
except in the case of mail orders, telephone orders, non?face-to-face unique
transactions, electronic commerce transactions, and preauthorized orders.
2.1.1.2 Determine if the Card is Valid
The card acceptor must complete the following steps to determine whether
each card presented is a valid MasterCard card:
? Check the valid date and the expiration date on the face of the card. If the
card is expired or not yet valid, the card acceptor must obtain an
authorization from the issuer.
? Check the Electronic Warning Bulletin or international Warning Notice(s).
If the account number is listed, the card acceptor must not complete the
transaction without obtaining an authorization from the issuer.
? Compare the four-digit truncated account number imprinted in the
signature panel with the last four digits of the embossed account number
on the face of the card.
? Unless a hybrid terminal is used, compare the embossed account number
on the face of the card with the number displayed or printed from the POI
terminal.
? If a photograph of the cardholder is present on the card, compare the
photograph on the card with the person presenting the card.
? Check that the card is signed.
? For unique transactions processed in a face-to-face environment (with the
exception of truck stop transactions and card-read transactions where a
non-signature CVM is used), request personal identification of the
cardholder in the form of an unexpired, official government document.
Compare the signature on the personal identification with the signature on
the card.

Maybe I'm going blind...?