Stop using the word "gay"

[Zen0]

I think there lies the difference, a heterosexual male can have sex with another male but he will never feel as comfortable as when being with a woman. The same is true for homosexuals .
The same is true for heterosexual and homosexual females.
Having homosexual sex does not mean you are automatically homosexual by nature(born). Just as having heterosexual sex does not mean you are born a heterosexual.
You can learn to except that you can have sex but you never feel truly happy with the person you are with after the "being in love" part is over. Because then it comes to what you really like about that person and how that person makes you feel in every aspect of having feelings.

Because it is the part after the orgasm that is important. It is linked to how being in love is the same as showing obsessive behavior patterns. One cannot stop thinking about the same person over and over again. Parts of the brain being flooded with serotonin in a similar way as drug addicts ( i think it was freebase but i am not sure) experience when they get high.

When you orgasm, your brain mimics also some sort of Pavlov behavior.
This would let you crave for more. It is the comforting and cuddling (the actual real love making) after that, that restores the mental balance and increases the desire to live (increasing energy). Having sex with people you do not care for, for the sake of orgasms only will result in losing the enjoyment of an orgasm and will result in more extreme sexual acts such as needing drugs or other ways.

That's all very specious, thank you.

I have orgasms with myself all the time, it does not make me want drugs.

The currently accepted theory is that "Love" is an evolved emotion (much like "fear" as a survival instinct) that has allowed humans to stay together to care for the young.

This is why you can only "love" a member of the sexual attraction (a gay man can never "love" a woman, a straight man can never "love" another a man.)

Research also shows that Bisexuals don't really exist. They are just gays in denial. There are exceptions of course, but for example, 90%+ of people who identify as "Bisexual" on dating websites exclusively contact one or the other sex.

Also, there are more gay people than the numbers show. Many are either afraid to be identified, in the closet, or even worse, identify as straight but "curious" or simply in flat out denial.

I would say if statistics count us as 10% of the population, I'm betting the real number is closer to 15%.

 

[Joseph F]

Why can't we just call them "Faggots"? :awe:

 

[William Gaatjes]

That's all very specious, thank you.

I have orgasms with myself all the time, it does not make me want drugs.

I expected that some one would mention masturbation.
Here there is the always present exception. During masturbation most people are alone while having full concentration onto a subject of affection. While taking into account the obvious exception, most people focus and visualize some great looking person they desire while also having a hidden desire for feeling affection. That is the catch it seems. Some people who read this will remember how awful they felt when they got disturbed while masturbating.

However, some people will start to increase the amounts of masturbation activity on a daily basis when frustrated because of what ever stressful event. Some however become frigid.

The reason you are not falling towards extreme behavior as fast is you are alone and not with another person. Inevitably it will get boring and you need something more...

The currently accepted theory is that "Love" is an evolved emotion (much like "fear" as a survival instinct) that has allowed humans to stay together to care for the young.

This is why you can only "love" a member of the sexual attraction (a gay man can never "love" a woman, a straight man can never "love" another a man.)

I would dare to go further than that. Without the obvious exception, most gay men are not happy or satisfied or feel love. Because they just seek the quick fix of the orgasm and the whole "searching for a sex partner" when going out. This same problem also applies to males who seek to have sex while not caring for the female sex partner. The men in these examples will get more extreme in the sexual acts over time. Monogamous homosexuals who really love each other also after the "being in love period" of a few months, will have a much more happier life just as monogamous heterosexuals experience . It is all about committing to each other. Without this, emotional suffering and hurt will be the price.

Research also shows that Bisexuals don't really exist. They are just gays in denial. There are exceptions of course, but for example, 90%+ of people who identify as "Bisexual" on dating websites exclusively contact one or the other sex.

Also, there are more gay people than the numbers show. Many are either afraid to be identified, in the closet, or even worse, identify as straight but "curious" or simply in flat out denial.

I would say if statistics count us as 10% of the population, I'm betting the real number is closer to 15%.

Well, with this kind of research one must be careful not to label people.
Some men can be very feminine while still being heterosexual.
Some men can be extremely macho while being as gay as possible.

 

[Zen0]

Why can't we just call them "Faggots"? :awe:

I'm sure people like you do call us Faggots all the time.

 

[Joseph F]

^ Frequently.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Forgot to mention about one more subject : That you mentioned being in love is an evolved emotion.

Of course it is evolved. But what i would like to know, how much is loving in a relationship and being monogamous linked to each other ?

I mean the whole Pavlov system is based to make the partner the only person that is important in times where there can be temptation and logic fails. However, when looking at humans, the human infant is helpless for several years. Making the female also helpless. Falling in love and being in love only last for a few months...

However, every man who becomes a father the first time, experiences an sensation he did not know prior before holding and seeing his child for the first time. When working properly, programmed to protect. There is more going on in the brain then people think.

 

[Zen0]

I expected that some one would mention masturbation.
Here there is the always present exception. During masturbation most people are alone while having full concentration onto a subject of affection. While taking into account the obvious exception, most people focus and visualize some great looking person they desire while also having a hidden desire for feeling affection. That is the catch it seems. Some people who read this will remember how awful they felt when they got disturbed while masturbating.

However, some people will start to increase the amounts of masturbation activity on a daily basis when frustrated because of what ever stressful event. Some however become frigid.

The reason you are not falling towards extreme behavior as fast is you are alone and not with another person. Inevitably it will get boring and you need something more...

Again, just specious conjecture.

No one becomes frigid from masturbating. No one masturbates non-stop because they are "frustrated". Most people masturbate once or twice per day, because sexual desire only builds up so slowly.

I would dare to go further than that. Without the obvious exception, most gay men are not happy or satisfied or feel love. Because they just seek the quick fix of the orgasm and the whole "searching for a sex partner" when going out. This same problem also applies to males who seek to have sex while not caring for the female sex partner. The men in these examples will get more extreme in the sexual acts over time. Homosexuals who really love each other also after the "being in love period" of a few months, will have a much more happier life just as heterosexuals. It is all about committing to each other. Without this, emotional suffering and hurt will be the price.

Now, you are getting into the realm of BS, for lack of a better term. "Most" gay men are not happy or satisfied or feel love? Are you a gay man? What evidence do you have whatsoever? I suspect it is your limited imagination or intelligence that has led you to conclude this most prima facie false allegation.

As a primary source and experience, I will say "most" gay men are just like "most" straight men, we pursue monogamous loving relationships as our goal, but as that usually does not happen right away, we are not going to turn away an available sexual relationship.

Well, with this kind of research one must be careful not to label people.
Some men can be very feminine while still being heterosexual.
Some men can be extremely macho while being as gay as possible.

Actually, I think you are quite confused. "gay" or "homosexual" simply means a sexual attraction. It has nothing to do with femininity or masculinity.

Most gay men are just as masculine (if not more so) than straight men, but like there are feminine straight men in the world, there are also feminine gay men in the world.

Confirmation bias easily overpower's a subjective viewer to the idea that if one flaming drag queen gay man exists, we must all be. 99 normal, masculine, sports watching, fat, hairy, balding, lazy manly gay men... would not change your mind.

It's only human, sadly, most humans are not so intellectually discerning.

 

[Zen0]

Forgot to mention about one more subject : That you mentioned being in love is an evolved emotion.

Of course it is evolved. But what i would like to know, how much is loving in a relationship and being monogamous linked to each other ?

I mean the whole Pavlov system is based to make the partner the only person that is important in times where there can be temptation and logic fails. However, when looking at humans, the human infant is helpless for several years. Making the female also helpless. Falling in love and being in love only last for a few months...

However, every man who becomes a father the first time, experiences an sensation he did not know prior before holding and seeing his child for the first time. When working properly, programmed to protect. There is more going on in the brain then people think.

I'm not an expert on this subject, but I think falling in love facilitates a child-rearing experience. Since child-birth happens 9 months *after* first "contact", it has to happen early on or the father would leave.

Parental love is another matter, once the child is born, both parents feel attached and love the child (in a very different way) and this allows them to stay together to care for the child without continuing to be in love with each other.

Falling in love and being in love certainly does not last for only a few months. It may be your experience that it doesn't last long, but this initial passionate stage can be longer or shorter.

After that, different people may experience different types of love for each other, that may wane or grow, but may be more companionate than passionate. Still, one can't dismiss that some couples can be passionately in love for the rest of their lives (at a lower intensity perhaps).

 

[CallMeJoe]

Why can't we just call them "Faggots"? :awe:

A lovely human is an archaic English unit applied to various-sized collections of sticks or rods:
1 short lovely human of sticks = 2 ft girth × 3 ft long bundle of short wood sticks
1 long lovely human of sticks = 2 ft girth × 4 ft long bundle of long wood sticks
1 lovely human of iron = 2 ft girth × 1 ft long bundle of iron/steel rods/bars

Are you implying that your primary interest in same-sex attracted individuals is in those of sufficiently rod-like characteristic?

 

[Zen0]

A lovely human is an archaic English unit applied to various-sized collections of sticks or rods:
1 short lovely human of sticks = 2 ft girth × 3 ft long bundle of short wood sticks
1 long lovely human of sticks = 2 ft girth × 4 ft long bundle of long wood sticks
1 lovely human of iron = 2 ft girth × 1 ft long bundle of iron/steel rods/bars

Are you implying that your primary interest in same-sex attracted individuals is in those of sufficiently rod-like characteristic?

He's not capable of implications, calling us faggots is a fairly explicit way of telling us he just doesn't like us, or hates us, or something.

 

[Steeplerot]

Why can't we just call them "Faggots"? :awe:

Last I checked this is the term of endearment they use for one another. If the glove fits.

Protip: Do not insult people of a culture who obsess over physical fitness and have quite a few folks on 'roids running around to pound your skull into the ground. It may work on the skinny 16 year old kid in Arkansas 5v1 but here they will knock your dick into the dirt in a heartbeat for being a 'phobe.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Again, just specious conjecture.

No one becomes frigid from masturbating. No one masturbates non-stop because they are "frustrated". Most people masturbate once or twice per day, because sexual desire only builds up so slowly.

:|

You have judged before you have thought about it.
I did not write people get frigid from masturbation.
Some people get frigid because of stressful events. That what i wrote.
Example to the extreme :
They cannot empty there mind. Some relations end because the woman thinks the man is no longer attracted to the woman, while it really may be some issue he cannot cope with in a for him satisfactory way. Thus he cannot perform. A woman may be unable to get into the mood as well for the same reason.

Now, you are getting into the realm of BS, for lack of a better term. "Most" gay men are not happy or satisfied or feel love? Are you a gay man? What evidence do you have whatsoever? I suspect it is your limited imagination or intelligence that has led you to conclude this most prima facie false allegation.

As a primary source and experience, I will say "most" gay men are just like "most" straight men, we pursue monogamous loving relationships as our goal, but as that usually does not happen right away, we are not going to turn away an available sexual relationship.

You claim it is bullshit yet you write as i have done ' "most" gay men '.
Again you judge without seeing the bigger picture. Reflecting to your own personal experiences only. I myself am not a homosexual man. I am heterosexual. I know this that although i have met great men i see as role models and as brothers, i like them spiritually but i do not get sexually aroused by them. For women i have great roll models as well and if could select only one woman from some of those women i would like to love that woman and to have her as a loved one / mate / partner what ever people call it. For i like them spiritually and can get sexually aroused.


Returning to the subject gay men : I seem to be able to have open honest discussion with everybody because i do not judge them without understanding them. This sometimes has put me in difficult situations but being honest in advance always prevails and respect for another usually triumphs.

Actually, I think you are quite confused. "gay" or "homosexual" simply means a sexual attraction. It has nothing to do with femininity or masculinity.

Most gay men are just as masculine (if not more so) than straight men, but like there are feminine straight men in the world, there are also feminine gay men in the world.

I think you are confused and have not been reading.
I can only respond with : "duh !".

Confirmation bias easily overpower's a subjective viewer to the idea that if one flaming drag queen gay man exists, we must all be. 99 normal, masculine, sports watching, fat, hairy, balding, lazy manly men... would not change your mind.

It's only human, sadly, most humans are not so intellectually discerning.

Unfortunately, the way you respond, gives me the feeling that you have a bit of scrutiny against people who question certain lifestyles. Because you yourself couple certain lifestyles with being gay. And that is wrong. It is not being homosexual that makes you behave in a certain way. It is your conscience choice that makes you behave in a certain way. Albeit it be that this is learned behavior turned automatic (unconscious).

Of course assuming here that you do not have a severe mental disorder that inhibits you from functioning within acceptable common sense set parameters.

 

[Zen0]

Unfortunately, the way you respond, gives me the feeling that you have a bit of scrutiny against people who question certain lifestyles. Because you yourself couple certain lifestyles with being gay. And that is wrong. It is not being homosexual that makes you behave in a certain way. It is your conscience choice that makes you behave in a certain way. Albeit it be that this is learned behavior turned automatic (unconscious).

Of course assuming here that you do not have a severe mental disorder that inhibits you from functioning within acceptable common sense set parameters.

Wow, your English writing is very unclear...

Anyway, no I do not attribute certain lifestyles with being gay. Society, however, does. I simply recognize the ones that Society perceives as a "gay" lifestyle.

As a gay man, I live a very ordinary lifestyle. As do most gay men...

 

[William Gaatjes]

I'm not an expert on this subject, but I think falling in love facilitates a child-rearing experience. Since child-birth happens 9 months *after* first "contact", it has to happen early on or the father would leave.

Parental love is another matter, once the child is born, both parents feel attached and love the child (in a very different way) and this allows them to stay together to care for the child without continuing to be in love with each other.

Falling in love and being in love certainly does not last for only a few months. It may be your experience that it doesn't last long, but this initial passionate stage can be longer or shorter.

After that, different people may experience different types of love for each other, that may wane or grow, but may be more companionate than passionate. Still, one can't dismiss that some couples can be passionately in love for the rest of their lives (at a lower intensity perhaps).

I do not generate my views on my personal experience only. For i am one of many. All a bit different. Therefore using my own experiences only, i would fail and be wrong automatically. There is however to find a line of average among human behavior.

Of course you are right, there are different kinds of love. But learn to recognize them properly. It goes way deeper.

The only thing that i can write is that in order for relationships to work, people must work for it and commit to it. This means placing priority over what is important. This (and i know this from experience all to well) is no easy task for anybody. But not impossible. Having a relationship is as everything else in life, constant learning, improving and having the right priorities while constantly refreshing the love. I guess it sucks to have free will for some. But it is the best thing and was here on earth before sliced bread.

As a side note, having mindless drones is no fun and does not create a collective conscience that will add up...

 

[William Gaatjes]

Wow, your English writing is very unclear...

Anyway, no I do not attribute certain lifestyles with being gay. Society, however, does. I simply recognize the ones that Society perceives as a "gay" lifestyle.

As a gay man, I live a very ordinary lifestyle. As do most gay men...

Of course my English writing is unclear. I am not good at translating the endless fast flow of images and feelings into words. Not even in my native tongue. I however do my best.

I think the issue that created the view of society is mainly 2 reasons :

1# obscene behavior. For example :Here in the Netherlands during the gay parades in the past: Some gay men just need not be just dancing but performing sexual acts as well while knowing there are little children and adults that will take offense against such behavior. Of course this causes a wrong view because other gay men did not condemn this behavior during the act or tried to stop it. Other examples are gay men with huge rubber penises aka dildos.


(Funny thing, this is similar as being ok with wrong behavior with some religions : group mentality effect)

2# Aids and homosexuals.
The sex islands of partying gays having sex with everything and everybody caused a disproportional view of gay people. However, when going to a swinger club, the same behavior can be found with heterosexuals.
Aids has nothing to do with ones sexuality. It has all to do with ones behavior and choices.

Sometimes an ordinary lifestyle is the best there is. It creates stability and peace of mind and possibilities.

Some people have a wild lifestyle. I learned through a joke from a friend the term butt-plug. D:

 

[Zen0]

Of course my English writing is unclear. I am not good at translating the endless fast flow of images and feelings into words. Not even in my native tongue. I however do my best.

I think the issue that created the view of society is mainly 2 reasons :

1# obscene behavior. For example :Here in the Netherlands during the gay parades in the past: Some gay men just need not be just dancing but performing sexual acts as well while knowing there are little children and adults that will take offense against such behavior. Of course this causes a wrong view because other gay men did not condemn this behavior during the act or tried to stop it. Other examples are gay men with huge rubber penises aka dildos.


(Funny thing, this is similar as being ok with wrong behavior with some religions : group mentality effect)

2# Aids and homosexuals.
The sex islands of partying gays having sex with everything and everybody caused a disproportional view of gay people. However, when going to a swinger club, the same behavior can be found with heterosexuals.
Aids has nothing to do with ones sexuality. It has all to do with ones behavior and choices.

Sometimes an ordinary lifestyle is the best there is. It creates stability and peace of mind and possibilities.

Some people have a wild lifestyle. I learned through a joke from a friend the term butt-plug. D:

You are from Netherlands? Amsterdam? That's interesting, I thought everything goes there and everyone is cool with everything lol.

#1)

I don't really appreciate the wild antics of gay parades either, but, I have to recognize that only the people who are outspoken and out there fighting for rights has gotten us to where we are today.

Those of us who are "normal" and quiet may try to elicit change in more subtle and slower ways, but I have to think that gay visibility has helped more than it hurt. Well, I hope so anyway.

#2) Unfortunately HIV is far more prevalent in gay men (and minorities) than straight men.

When a straight man looks for sex from a woman, he worries more about pregnancy than HIV. It's another difficulty we deal with being gay I suppose.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Again, just specious conjecture.

No one becomes frigid from masturbating. No one masturbates non-stop because they are "frustrated". Most people masturbate once or twice per day, because sexual desire only builds up so slowly.

That is quite often i would think ?


And sexual desire, it depends on the situation. While being with a loved one, i would feel i did not get enough and felt like going on forever. No 2 times a day. Of course, the longer in a relationship with a loved one, other things take priority and sex will become less frequent for various reasons.

 

[Zen0]

That is quite often i would think ?


And sexual desire, it depends on the situation. While being with a loved one, i would feel i did not get enough and felled like going on forever. No 2 times a day. Of course, the longer in a relationship with a loved one, other things take priority and sex will become less frequent for various reasons.

Just once in the morning or just once at night usually I think, at least for younger males. Some would maybe both morning and night.

I think as you get older, even if you're single, you may end up masturbating less and less.

 

[William Gaatjes]

You are from Netherlands? Amsterdam? That's interesting, I thought everything goes there and everyone is cool with everything lol.

Yes, another misconception created by lies. On average , in Amsterdam the people are no different than other people from other countries / cities. What does happen is that people on vacation in Amsterdam get to release their wild side. But that is exactly the same as in other popular travel/vacation destinations. It has nothing to do with Amsterdam. If you are from the US, i cannot be surprised. Idiots like Bill O'Reilly are people to be ashamed off.

#1)
I don't really appreciate the wild antics of gay parades either, but, I have to recognize that only the people who are outspoken and out there fighting for rights has gotten us to where we are today.

Those of us who are "normal" and quiet may try to elicit change in more subtle and slower ways, but I have to think that gay visibility has helped more than it hurt. Well, I hope so anyway.

It all depends how you present yourself. Here in the Netherlands a famous gay was Jos Brink. To me, he always mastered the fine line with being outgoing without provoking. A man with class.

#2) Unfortunately HIV is far more prevalent in gay men (and minorities) than straight men.

When a straight man looks for sex from a woman, he worries more about pregnancy than HIV. It's another difficulty we deal with being gay I suppose.

Yes you are right partially.
But women having birth control has taken that "advantage" away. Day after pill, the pill, and many other devices prevent having a child. Thus lowering the threshold for fast casual sex. Also since a woman has a part of her body specially evolved for penetrative copulation she does not bleed as fast but that does not matter much for the transmission of HIV when more then one sexual encounters happen. The reality is that the lifestyle of having multiple partners for fast causal sex without strong condoms is very dangerous. Again behavior is the key here.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Just once in the morning or just once at night usually I think, at least for younger males. Some would maybe both morning and night.

I think as you get older, even if you're single, you may end up masturbating less and less.

I hesitate to start a thread about this...

 

[Zen0]

Yes, another misconception created by lies. On average , in Amsterdam the people are no different then other people from other countries / cities. What does happen is that people on vacation in Amsterdam get to release their wild side. But that is exactly the same as in other popular travel/vacation destinations. It has nothing to do with Amsterdam. If you are from the US, i cannot be surprised. Idiots like Bill O'Reilly are people to be ashamed off.








Yes you are right partially.
But women having birth control has taken that "advantage" away. Day after pill, the pill, and many other devices prevent having a child. Thus lowering the threshold for fast casual sex. Also since a woman has a part of her body specially designed for penetrative copulation she does not bleed as fast but that does not matter much for the transmission of HIV when more then one sexual encounters happen. The reality is that the lifestyle of having multiple partners for fast causal sex without strong condoms is very dangerous. Again behavior is the key here.

Well I'm hoping HIV gets cured soon because no one likes having sex with condoms.

HIV is a concern (not usually huge) for gay men, it is more dangerous for multiple partners of course, but not any less for just one partner at a time - unless you get tested.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Well I'm hoping HIV gets cured soon because no one likes having sex with condoms.

That may be a while. We will need the help of specially cultured bacteria and viruses for that. Bacteria can help the human body detect pathogens that are because of their structure invisible to the human immune system. It would be no different then the billions of bacteria and viruses we already carry with us. Monogamous relations is still the key here. Because without HIV there are still enough diseases to worry about. Nature evolves. And where there is food and energy, there will be life in any possible form.

HIV is a concern (not usually huge) for gay men, it is more dangerous for multiple partners of course, but not any less for just one partner at a time - unless you get tested.

Indeed it is.

 

[HAL9000]

Because you write "can be", you are right.

Because behavior is learned. And when you learn something, it sooner or later becomes automatic behavior when repeated often. Thus you could say it is unconscious but not from the start. For example, look at autistic people.
Some repeatedly execute the same action. This causes them to become very good at it to the extreme. With "normal" people this also applies but the urge to "lock up" in a certain behavior pattern is not there.

Absolutely, that was what I was trying to say, for the most part behaviour is conscious but there is obviously some behaviour that is involuntary to a degree.

I think there lies the difference, a heterosexual male can have sex with another male but he will never feel as comfortable as when being with a woman. The same is true for homosexuals .
The same is true for heterosexual and homosexual females.
Having homosexual sex does not mean you are automatically homosexual by nature(born). Just as having heterosexual sex does not mean you are born a heterosexual.
You can learn to except that you can have sex but you never feel truly happy with the person you are with after the "being in love" part is over. Because then it comes to what you really like about that person and how that person makes you feel in every aspect of having feelings.

Because it is the part after the orgasm that is important. It is linked to how being in love is the same as showing obsessive behavior patterns. One cannot stop thinking about the same person over and over again. Parts of the brain being flooded with serotonin in a similar way as drug addicts ( i think it was freebase but i am not sure) experience when they get high.

When you orgasm, your brain mimics also some sort of Pavlov behavior.
This would let you crave for more. It is the comforting and cuddling (the actual real love making) after that, that restores the mental balance and increases the desire to live (increasing energy). Having sex with people you do not care for, for the sake of orgasms only will result in losing the enjoyment of an orgasm and will result in more extreme sexual acts such as needing drugs or other ways.

All of that is absolutely true, but personally I believe that a person has the innate capacity for attraction to any gender, then through a life of experiences people learn to experience people in a different way, for some they end up straight, for some they end up gay for some they end up / stay bisexual. I believe that everyone has a sexual preference for both sexes, some feel comfortable enough to act on those preferences with both sexes, some with just one. Based on any number of criteria they grow this comfortable with either or both sexes, it is rare that people grow equally comfortable sexually with both genders, but it happens sometimes, when it does the resultant orientation is bisexual.

 

[wuliheron]

I don't really understand what's wrong with gay. It works, it's simple. As for legally sexually challenged, that's very dependant on geography, it's really not the case over here. You could argue that given the wrong political climate women fall into that category.

OK, how about Socially Challenged Sexually?

If "gay" is too demeaning and "homosexual" is too clinical we need some good alternatives that promote the homosexual agenda.

 

[HAL9000]

OK, how about Socially Challenged Sexually?

If "gay" is too demeaning and "homosexual" is too clinical we need some good alternatives that promote the homosexual agenda.

Gay isn't demeaning, it works perfectly. I don't believe that gay people are socially challenged.