Stop the US Mail!

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.02/view.html?pg=2?tw=wn_tophead_4


When we end the Postal Service's government-backed monopoly, private carriers will deliver better alternatives.
- By Andy Kessler


It's been said that Americans will put up with anything - as long as it doesn't involve waiting in line. And as I wasted half a day mailing a gift this past holiday season, I asked myself why that sentiment doesn't apply to the US Postal Service. In the age of instant communication, with trillions of dollars crossing borders in nanoseconds and grandmas sending email, why do post offices even exist?

As a kid, I subscribed to National Lampoon, which had about a dozen blow-in cards per issue that basically read, pay us $7.95 a year and we will have a snappily dressed government employee personally deliver our magazine to your door. How'd they do that? Well, in 1825, Congress outlawed private mail delivery within cities and gave the USPS a monopoly over first-class letters and third-class items like magazines, catalogs, and junk mail (a prize if you can tell the difference).

But why does the USPS still have this monopoly? The only possible argument is that the US economy would grind to a halt without the postal service. It is, after all, one of the largest civilian employers. Its 707,000 workers need 37,000 post offices, 200,000 vehicles, and 15,000 daily flights to deliver some 550 million pieces of mail a day.

Sure, the numbers look impressive. But so would track miles of horse-drawn trolleys if that industry had a monopoly on travel. Consider that each day 35 billion emails are sent, 1 billion SMS messages traverse the ether, and 2 billion instant messages are delivered by AOL alone. Does any of this take almost three-quarters of a million workers? Nah, just a few latte sippers in data centers to reboot the servers a couple of times a day.

Meanwhile, the USPS raked in a $3 billion profit in fiscal 2004 (untaxed) and plans to raise its rates, again, in 2006. The price hike is needed to cover the rising labor costs that make up a majority of their $65 billion in operating expenses. The Ludditious American Postal Workers Union has time and again fought labor-saving technologies that would increase efficiency. And postal workers' wages seem to stay above those of average factory employees. The USPS monopoly means no shareholders to complain, and no lawyers to file class actions against it.

So what would happen if this 180-year-old trust disappeared tomorrow? Would the US seize up like an engine without oil? Hardly. Better alternatives to the USPS are already here, and plenty of others would emerge.

Bills offer the best opportunity to bury the USPS. Companies need to be paid. But mailing bills and checks is terribly inefficient, costing $2 to $10 per transaction. Some analysts suggest that 25 percent of the cost of a phone call covers billing. Companies should persuade more of us - through incentives - to pay bills online, a method that could easily scale to 105 million households. Bank and brokerage statements, too, are a click away. For those without computers, banks would fill the void. After all, they already deal with all those personal checks. Tellers could pull up your bills and assist you with those to be paid, for a fee (and a wait in line), of course.

Private carriers would compete for contracts to deliver catalogs and magazines. Junk mail doesn't make the cut - like you care. Electronic payment replaces stamps, removing a lucrative float enjoyed by the USPS. Innovation coupled with a free market would lead to profitable opportunities in rural areas, currently subsidized by city dwellers and suburbanites.

Which leads me to the best reason for ending the postal monopoly: to make home package delivery cheaper. UPS and FedEx can, and almost do, handle many of the packages that Amazon.com and eBay and my household rely on for their existence. But it's no secret that UPS and FedEx hate delivering to our homes, because of the time it takes to get out of the truck and ring the bell. The penalty is staggering - residential deliveries often cost 10 to 20 percent more than those for businesses. Allowing these package humpers to carry first- and third-class mail would make this "suburban tax" disappear.

Let's take the first step and end the postal monopoly now. As the USPS collapses under its own weight, entrepreneurs will start companies that will offer today's mail carriers more productive jobs. And the new firms may even offer snappy outfits.



Just found this to be an interesting thought.

- Bob
 
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Reactions: Damm straight

flamingelephant

Golden Member
Jun 22, 2001
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76
NAFTA has openned up ways to actually make this happen, I remember reading somewhere that someone in the US was taking the canadian goverment to court to get money because they run the canada post. someone could do this to the USPS too probably under nafta
 

TravisT

Golden Member
Sep 6, 2002
1,427
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I am a contractor for the USPS. Lets say for some reason the USPS just stopped operating one day as this guy hopes. As he mentioned that puts out 707,000 employee's out of work. That is not to include the other thousands of people who are contractors for USPS. This would have huge negative effects on our economy. Not very well thought out if you ask me.
 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
6,815
0
0
Originally posted by: TravisT
I am a contractor for the USPS. Lets say for some reason the USPS just stopped operating one day as this guy hopes. As he mentioned that puts out 707,000 employee's out of work. That is not to include the other thousands of people who are contractors for USPS. This would have huge negative effects on our economy. Not very well thought out if you ask me.

It would be great for the economy. We could get the dolts off the taxpayer dole.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
I've heard (though only anecdotally) that the USPS subsidizes shipping with its standard postage. If this is true, they should definitely be shut down. I don't see many other reasons why the cost of stamps has doubled in my relatively short lifetime - I'm pretty sure its rate of increase is well above that of inflation.

As for the downturn in the economy due to shutting it down, that doesn't really make sense. If anything, it will open more private carriers, thereby increasing overall employment. As Dissipate will no doubt say, there is no reason to expect opening a free market to have any negative effects, as it is beneficial to all by definition.
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
263
126
there is already competition for parcels and expediated deliveries - lots of competition. The Postal system works ok for everything else - why change something that is not broke. The postal system also covers nearly 100% of the country including rural and extremely remote areas. The more profitable sectors subsidizes this, otherwise these rural and remote areas would not get service. Do you believe that a private for profit company would want to service backwaters Florida or Northpoleville Alaska?
Anyway, the postal system is trying to modernize with its koisks and online shipping and the recent introduction of a flat rate priority box. Ebay is doing a lot to increase the USPS's profits as well.

Edit Dissipate: The usps doesn't get taxpayer money. It is a quasi-independent company that operates from its revenues.
 

Slick5150

Diamond Member
Nov 10, 2001
8,760
3
81
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
. I don't see many other reasons why the cost of stamps has doubled in my relatively short lifetime - I'm pretty sure its rate of increase is well above that of inflation.

You're complaining about the ability to send something anywhere in the united states for 37 cents???

With the massive amounts of volume that the USPS handles daily, I'm amazed it works as well as it does. Granted, the lines at the customer service windows sometimes gets a little annoying, but those can be avoided by doing the work online and just dropping stuff off.

 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,590
86
91
www.bing.com
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: TravisT
I am a contractor for the USPS. Lets say for some reason the USPS just stopped operating one day as this guy hopes. As he mentioned that puts out 707,000 employee's out of work. That is not to include the other thousands of people who are contractors for USPS. This would have huge negative effects on our economy. Not very well thought out if you ask me.

It would be great for the economy. We could get the dolts off the taxpayer dole.
you do know that the USPS actually profits right? No taxpayer money supports the USPS

Not to mention The USPS is the countries 2nd largets employer.

 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: PinwiZ
You're complaining about the ability to send something anywhere in the united states for 37 cents???

With the massive amounts of volume that the USPS handles daily, I'm amazed it works as well as it does. Granted, the lines at the customer service windows sometimes gets a little annoying, but those can be avoided by doing the work online and just dropping stuff off.
I am - because I remember not long ago when it was 24 cents. Do you complain about the price of gas? Why, when you can drive 30 miles for less than $2?
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
263
126
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: PinwiZ
You're complaining about the ability to send something anywhere in the united states for 37 cents???

With the massive amounts of volume that the USPS handles daily, I'm amazed it works as well as it does. Granted, the lines at the customer service windows sometimes gets a little annoying, but those can be avoided by doing the work online and just dropping stuff off.
I am - because I remember not long ago when it was 24 cents. Do you complain about the price of gas? Why, when you can drive 30 miles for less than $2?

I think the price of a stamp have not been 24 cents since 1988 (over 15 years ago). Check the inflation calculator
According to our inflation calculator, the 3-cent cost of a postage stamp in 1932 translates to 37 cents today(2002). As it happens, that's exactly what the price of a stamp is about to increase to effective June 30.

anyway, I am using the same amount of gas. I am cutting back because the prices are not worth the hassle. But with stamped mail, I've gone online bill payment with all my bills. I only use stamps to send the odd note/invitation, rebates or the odd bi-yearly bills. Because I am using way fewer stamps, the increase doesn't bother me.
 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
6,815
0
0
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: TravisT
I am a contractor for the USPS. Lets say for some reason the USPS just stopped operating one day as this guy hopes. As he mentioned that puts out 707,000 employee's out of work. That is not to include the other thousands of people who are contractors for USPS. This would have huge negative effects on our economy. Not very well thought out if you ask me.

It would be great for the economy. We could get the dolts off the taxpayer dole.
you do know that the USPS actually profits right? No taxpayer money supports the USPS

Not to mention The USPS is the countries 2nd largets employer.

Why does it need to be a "government" managed monopoly?
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,059
73
91
Closing the USPS may not be possible. It certainly wouldn't be easy. There's a small matter of the U.S. Constitution:
Section. 8.

Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
.
.
.
Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
Now that I think about it, Clause 7 suggests the existing privatized USPS may be unconstitutional. :Q
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,590
86
91
www.bing.com
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: TravisT
I am a contractor for the USPS. Lets say for some reason the USPS just stopped operating one day as this guy hopes. As he mentioned that puts out 707,000 employee's out of work. That is not to include the other thousands of people who are contractors for USPS. This would have huge negative effects on our economy. Not very well thought out if you ask me.

It would be great for the economy. We could get the dolts off the taxpayer dole.
you do know that the USPS actually profits right? No taxpayer money supports the USPS

Not to mention The USPS is the countries 2nd largets employer.

Why does it need to be a "government" managed monopoly?
good question, but if it Aint broke, dont fix it!

Theres nothing stopping a private enterprise from starting a similar service, and eventually offer it at a better rate than the USPS, but none have tried. I take that as a good indication that its highly unlikely to succeed.

What does it cost to send a regular sized letter through UPS or Fedex? a lot more than 37 cents im sure. Though I think they are both moving torward offering this, as they are now opening more locations, and even have mailbox style drop boxes popping up everywhere. Eventually they may be outperforming the post office, and at that point the post office may not be able to turn a profit, or even break even. When it comes to that, I'd be the first one to say drop it. Just like we should drop amtrack.

but also note that UPS and Fedex have both benifited greatly (and freely) from the Post offices services, most notably the development of the Zip code system.
 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
6,815
0
0
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: TravisT
I am a contractor for the USPS. Lets say for some reason the USPS just stopped operating one day as this guy hopes. As he mentioned that puts out 707,000 employee's out of work. That is not to include the other thousands of people who are contractors for USPS. This would have huge negative effects on our economy. Not very well thought out if you ask me.

It would be great for the economy. We could get the dolts off the taxpayer dole.
you do know that the USPS actually profits right? No taxpayer money supports the USPS

Not to mention The USPS is the countries 2nd largets employer.

Why does it need to be a "government" managed monopoly?
good question, but if it Aint broke, dont fix it!

The point is, it is "broke."

Theres nothing stopping a private enterprise from starting a similar service, and eventually offer it at a better rate than the USPS, but none have tried. I take that as a good indication that its highly unlikely to succeed.

Ok, try setting up a private service that delivers first class mail to people's mailbox. Ring me when armed thugs take you to prison.

What does it cost to send a regular sized letter through UPS or Fedex? a lot more than 37 cents im sure.

They aren't allowed to send first class mail to people's mailboxes. Duh.

Though I think they are both moving torward offering this, as they are now opening more locations, and even have mailbox style drop boxes popping up everywhere. Eventually they may be outperforming the post office, and at that point the post office may not be able to turn a profit, or even break even. When it comes to that, I'd be the first one to say drop it. Just like we should drop amtrack.

but also note that UPS and Fedex have both benifited greatly (and freely) from the Post offices services, most notably the development of the Zip code system.

Why do we need a "government" monopoly for zip codes?

 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,590
86
91
www.bing.com
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: TravisT
I am a contractor for the USPS. Lets say for some reason the USPS just stopped operating one day as this guy hopes. As he mentioned that puts out 707,000 employee's out of work. That is not to include the other thousands of people who are contractors for USPS. This would have huge negative effects on our economy. Not very well thought out if you ask me.

It would be great for the economy. We could get the dolts off the taxpayer dole.
you do know that the USPS actually profits right? No taxpayer money supports the USPS

Not to mention The USPS is the countries 2nd largets employer.

Why does it need to be a "government" managed monopoly?
good question, but if it Aint broke, dont fix it!

The point is, it is "broke."

Theres nothing stopping a private enterprise from starting a similar service, and eventually offer it at a better rate than the USPS, but none have tried. I take that as a good indication that its highly unlikely to succeed.

Ok, try setting up a private service that delivers first class mail to people's mailbox. Ring me when armed thugs take you to prison.

What does it cost to send a regular sized letter through UPS or Fedex? a lot more than 37 cents im sure.

They aren't allowed to send first class mail to people's mailboxes. Duh.

Though I think they are both moving torward offering this, as they are now opening more locations, and even have mailbox style drop boxes popping up everywhere. Eventually they may be outperforming the post office, and at that point the post office may not be able to turn a profit, or even break even. When it comes to that, I'd be the first one to say drop it. Just like we should drop amtrack.

but also note that UPS and Fedex have both benifited greatly (and freely) from the Post offices services, most notably the development of the Zip code system.

Why do we need a "government" monopoly for zip codes?
Local newspapers get delivered daily, without using the mailbox. Is the mailbox the only place you can receive deliveries? Notice how a lot of newpspers have thier own little plastic box attached to peoples mailbox posts. If you consider this an obstacle, you wont accomplish much.

Monopoly on zip codes? Umm, you can use the zip code system freely. as do Fedex and UPS, how is this a monopoly? If there was a better way to speedup the transfer of packages, I think UPS or Fedex would have made a better way by now, but the zip code system works just fine, so again, why fix what aint broke? Also, it provides a nice standard. Sure would suck if you had to remember a different code for Postal Mail, UPS and Fedex for your address. my point was that private companies have freely benifited from the postal services development of a zip code system.
 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
6,815
0
0
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: TravisT
I am a contractor for the USPS. Lets say for some reason the USPS just stopped operating one day as this guy hopes. As he mentioned that puts out 707,000 employee's out of work. That is not to include the other thousands of people who are contractors for USPS. This would have huge negative effects on our economy. Not very well thought out if you ask me.

It would be great for the economy. We could get the dolts off the taxpayer dole.
you do know that the USPS actually profits right? No taxpayer money supports the USPS

Not to mention The USPS is the countries 2nd largets employer.

Why does it need to be a "government" managed monopoly?
good question, but if it Aint broke, dont fix it!

The point is, it is "broke."

Theres nothing stopping a private enterprise from starting a similar service, and eventually offer it at a better rate than the USPS, but none have tried. I take that as a good indication that its highly unlikely to succeed.

Ok, try setting up a private service that delivers first class mail to people's mailbox. Ring me when armed thugs take you to prison.

What does it cost to send a regular sized letter through UPS or Fedex? a lot more than 37 cents im sure.

They aren't allowed to send first class mail to people's mailboxes. Duh.

Though I think they are both moving torward offering this, as they are now opening more locations, and even have mailbox style drop boxes popping up everywhere. Eventually they may be outperforming the post office, and at that point the post office may not be able to turn a profit, or even break even. When it comes to that, I'd be the first one to say drop it. Just like we should drop amtrack.

but also note that UPS and Fedex have both benifited greatly (and freely) from the Post offices services, most notably the development of the Zip code system.

Why do we need a "government" monopoly for zip codes?
Local newspapers get delivered daily, without using the mailbox. Is the mailbox the only place you can receive deliveries? Notice how a lot of newpspers have thier own little plastic box attached to peoples mailbox posts. If you consider this an obstacle, you wont accomplish much.

I don't know what the exact regulations are, but having people create a whole other box for their mail is not going to fly with them. Now, if the government allowed them to use the mailboxes that are already there, that would be a different story, but they don't.

Monopoly on zip codes? Umm, you can use the zip code system freely. as do Fedex and UPS, how is this a monopoly? If there was a better way to speedup the transfer of packages, I think UPS or Fedex would have made a better way by now, but the zip code system works just fine, so again, why fix what aint broke? Also, it provides a nice standard. Sure would suck if you had to remember a different code for Postal Mail, UPS and Fedex for your address. my point was that private companies have freely benifited from the postal services development of a zip code system.

My question is, why do we need the government to come up with a simple numbering system for geographic locations? That's like saying we should have the government monopolize the production of keyboards right now because industry wouldn't be able to come up with its own standard with regards to the letter layout.

 

NightCrawler

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2003
3,179
0
0
I've shipped things USPS, UPS and Fedex and find USPS convenient since there is a postal office near by, otherwise UPS and Fedex are a long car ride.

Not everything should or can be privately owned.
 

alent1234

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2002
3,915
0
0
anyone check out the new computerized self service kiosks at the post office where they take credit cards? Only complaint is you can't ship media or book rate on them. Otherwise you put your item on the scale, enter the zip code and pay. It prints the postage and you throw it in the bin.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
USPS will shrink on its own. First class mail volume for the USPS has been in decline for the last 4 years. Last year was the first year total mail volume went up in 3 years, but that was propped up by junk mail volume.
 

daveshel

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
5,453
2
81
If my mailbox is any indication, 60% of the 'mail' is junk mail that goes straight into the recycle bin. And there is nothing I can do to stop it. This trade is heavily discounted so maybe USPS would be a more profitable without it. While I hate standing in line, they sure beat UPS hands down.
 

cquark

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2004
1,741
0
0
Originally posted by: Harvey
Closing the USPS may not be possible. It certainly wouldn't be easy. There's a small matter of the U.S. Constitution:
Section. 8.

Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
.
.
.
Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
Now that I think about it, Clause 7 suggests the existing privatized USPS may be unconstitutional. :Q

The Constitution grants Congress the power to establish post offices. It does not require Congress to establish them.
 

daveshel

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
5,453
2
81
Originally posted by: cquark
Originally posted by: Harvey
Closing the USPS may not be possible. It certainly wouldn't be easy. There's a small matter of the U.S. Constitution:
Section. 8.

Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
.
.
.
Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
Now that I think about it, Clause 7 suggests the existing privatized USPS may be unconstitutional. :Q

The Constitution grants Congress the power to establish post offices. It does not require Congress to establish them.

And this aspect was resolved long ago by Nixon.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: PinwiZ
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
. I don't see many other reasons why the cost of stamps has doubled in my relatively short lifetime - I'm pretty sure its rate of increase is well above that of inflation.

You're complaining about the ability to send something anywhere in the united states for 37 cents???

With the massive amounts of volume that the USPS handles daily, I'm amazed it works as well as it does. Granted, the lines at the customer service windows sometimes gets a little annoying, but those can be avoided by doing the work online and just dropping stuff off.

Of course he is complaining.

The Rich Boys Club is not making something like $3.70 to send something, that is the goal to get it in the hands of the Corporate Rich Boy Club for more profits at the expense of the little people as usual, come on get with the program already.