Stop protecting illegal immigrants - Get over it
- Thread starter Xylitol
- Start date
DanTMWTMP
Lifer
- Oct 7, 2001
- 15,908
- 19
- 81
this should be in P&N. w/o illegals, southern california's economy would be in the gutter. W/o them, who will man our fields? How the hell do our southern states compete in a global economy w/o them?
Yes we should have good border control, but have you ever seen a homeless mexican? nop. I haven't. You, of all people living in California should know this. I'd much rather hire a hardworking individual than a unionized lazy ass; or that lame-ass guy who holds up a "war veteran, need money, godbless" signs.
We need our taxi drivers, our field laborers, etc. really, wtf are we going to do without them? Which 2nd/3rd generation will even work in those jobs?
I'm all for stricter border control, but this hate towards illegals is stupid. This is becoming borderline racism. A mere 100+ years ago, all it took was the want to work in the US, and you're in. Pretty fucking ironic that a country built on immigrants is turning its back on that principle.
OP, you're korean, and so am I. I'm pretty sure you are also the first gen here as well as I am (born here, parents immigrated). Sure our parents came here legally. However, I'm sure the situation would've been quite different if it weren't for this thing called the Pacific Ocean. So being born here, something you and I didn't have the power to choose, entitles us to hate on illegals (ahem mexicans)? Give me a fucking break.
I personally want to believe that the US and Mexico should come to an agreement on work visas.
Also... No human should ever hate on another because that other dude wants to pursue a higher standard of living for him/herself. Why the fuck would you want to hate that. Everyone strives for it, so let them. Don't go around getting pissed off for something that really doesn't affect you on the personal level. Live your own life, and let them live theres.
EDIT:
I like BoomerD's response. I can agree w/ that. Unregulated immigration in this day/age is unfavorable. To curb this though, all border or near-border cities/towns on both sides should have special laws/work visa's/privileges to facilitate businesses there.
A solid response like BoomerD's response is ALL THAT IS NEEDED. There is no fucking reason to just suddenly hate upon a group of people just because you're entitled to live here because you were born here. :roll:
EDIT2: sorry for the language.... that's all. but I'm not editing my initial knee-jerk there. Sorry for attacking you if it came off like that, but oh well. Touchy subject and I got heated there. It's nothing personal. Just dislike your initial opinion, that is all.
Yes we should have good border control, but have you ever seen a homeless mexican? nop. I haven't. You, of all people living in California should know this. I'd much rather hire a hardworking individual than a unionized lazy ass; or that lame-ass guy who holds up a "war veteran, need money, godbless" signs.
We need our taxi drivers, our field laborers, etc. really, wtf are we going to do without them? Which 2nd/3rd generation will even work in those jobs?
I'm all for stricter border control, but this hate towards illegals is stupid. This is becoming borderline racism. A mere 100+ years ago, all it took was the want to work in the US, and you're in. Pretty fucking ironic that a country built on immigrants is turning its back on that principle.
OP, you're korean, and so am I. I'm pretty sure you are also the first gen here as well as I am (born here, parents immigrated). Sure our parents came here legally. However, I'm sure the situation would've been quite different if it weren't for this thing called the Pacific Ocean. So being born here, something you and I didn't have the power to choose, entitles us to hate on illegals (ahem mexicans)? Give me a fucking break.
I personally want to believe that the US and Mexico should come to an agreement on work visas.
Also... No human should ever hate on another because that other dude wants to pursue a higher standard of living for him/herself. Why the fuck would you want to hate that. Everyone strives for it, so let them. Don't go around getting pissed off for something that really doesn't affect you on the personal level. Live your own life, and let them live theres.
EDIT:
I like BoomerD's response. I can agree w/ that. Unregulated immigration in this day/age is unfavorable. To curb this though, all border or near-border cities/towns on both sides should have special laws/work visa's/privileges to facilitate businesses there.
A solid response like BoomerD's response is ALL THAT IS NEEDED. There is no fucking reason to just suddenly hate upon a group of people just because you're entitled to live here because you were born here. :roll:
EDIT2: sorry for the language.... that's all. but I'm not editing my initial knee-jerk there. Sorry for attacking you if it came off like that, but oh well. Touchy subject and I got heated there. It's nothing personal. Just dislike your initial opinion, that is all.
meh, not that i do it very often, but i'm a criminal every time i smoke weed. well, according to the federal gov't anyway.
but i'm glad you never drive over the speed limit, or had anything other than procreational sex in the south before 2003.
here, this is for you
but i'm glad you never drive over the speed limit, or had anything other than procreational sex in the south before 2003.
here, this is for you
I don't care. I'm educated and we aren't competing for the same job. If you lose your job to an illegal immigrant you need to get some training in something useful and find a real job.
BoomerD
No Lifer
- Feb 26, 2006
- 66,345
- 14,752
- 146
TERRIBLE misconception. They're not just coming here for "the jobs Americans won't do" anymore...they're coming for ANY job they can get. College degreed folks, manual laborers, office professionals, any and all classes of working people are sneaking across the border...
Maybe you missed the part where I said I don't care because I have no trouble finding work. If you do and you need a scapegoat, then please continue targeting your anger towards illegal immigrants.
DanTMWTMP
Lifer
- Oct 7, 2001
- 15,908
- 19
- 81
I'm just backfiring on the hate and the general misconception. Yes it's a defense against them, and yes I'll be hated on for expressing my opinion and what I think is needed to curb our current situation.
I just dislike a post that expresses blind hate w/o a good reason. If his family member was killed because an illegal came to his home from mexico w/ the intent to rob someone after crossing the border, then i'd understand. Obviously that has happened before, and I have no argument against that.
Bottom line:
Stop the hate, see that a lot of the illegals are actually beneficial to the border-state's economy (naturalized them already sheesh..so they can contribute their share). It is a huge issue, but it shouldn't be fueled by blind hatred (ahem, hate towards Mexicans). Live up to our past principles (we're an immigrant nation by principle), and come up w/ a solid agreement for the border/near-border cities/towns on both sides for work visas and for employers in the US to have easier access to invest across the border (or negotiate for labor).
DanTMWTMP
Lifer
- Oct 7, 2001
- 15,908
- 19
- 81
Well, so far, I haven't seen BoomerD put up any posts that hint at hatred. He's just bluntly stating his opinion. I can agree with that.
I don't have trouble finding work as well. I think this issue is well beyond the fear of illegals taking our jobs (and I live in San Diego).
Damn..instead of this $600 stimulus package, maybe it would've been better if the Gov't picked companies to give grants to so these companies can invest in and around the border to promote more jobs on both sides. bleh..what do I know though. I'm just some programmer w/ no phd in politics, psychology, anthropology, blablhabhlbahl border-ology?
You are incredibly stupid. Illegal immigrants can work for less than minimum wage and thus, they're more attractive to employers (heck, you don't have to give benefits either)
Tip: Just don't let illegals in so that Americans can work those crappy jobs
Close this thread - it was the wrong section - reposted in PN
DanTMWTMP
Lifer
- Oct 7, 2001
- 15,908
- 19
- 81
Good example of your point:
*cough *Walmart.
An example where it's a necessity:
Honestly, a lot of local industry simply cannot compete with the globalization of today's economy. A lot of small manufacturing companies simply do not have the capital to hire someone and load them up with full benefits. They don't have the investment power to move their factories to China or Mexico. Skilled machinists are coming over to take these jobs and small industrialized areas like El Monte or City of Commerce needs them badly.
I have no loyalty to Americans who don't educate themselves to gain better employment. They aren't less than me, more than me.. I simply feel no need to fight for them.
IAteYourMother
Lifer
- Nov 3, 2004
- 10,491
- 22
- 81
we've always had immigration laws. What's the fucking point of them if we're not going to strictly enforce immigration laws just like the rest of our laws? Where is the national sovereignty if we can't even protect our own borders? Why are there bills being passed that give ILLEGAL immigrants certain rights?
DanTMWTMP
Lifer
- Oct 7, 2001
- 15,908
- 19
- 81
Our first immigration law:
Chinese Exclusion Act in 1882 (specifically passed for the purpose of limiting further Chinese immigration).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H...n_in_the_United_States
Then it was all downhill from there. It still was not too difficult for other groups to come into the US. That wikipedia article gives you a good impression of what a "slippery slope" is like.
Yes, our current laws should be enforced, but at the same time, an amendment to our current laws should be passed for economical reasons. Our current laws seem to promote hate more than anything else, and it isn't helping us economically.
Possible solution? maybe?: Illegals who've been already working here for 5+ years gets naturalized automatically. They get to pay taxes, and don't have to worry about being deported. They're already alleviating small industrial towns in the wake of globalization. At the same time, REALLY enforce the illegal passage of people going across the border.
Pick and give grants to SMALL companies and give them the power to give out a limited number of work visas. Give them grants to invest in such a venture so they can have a recruitment center of sorts in Mexico.
Promote investing in border town on both sides.
I'm not sure if that will help. I'm not an economist. I'm sure someone can prove to me all the things that are wrong w/ this knee-jerk proposal. That's fine. At least we in ATOT can have some sort of productive discussion about it instead of hating on illegals (ahem mexicans).
BoomerD
No Lifer
- Feb 26, 2006
- 66,345
- 14,752
- 146
While I personally never had to compete with an illegal for my job, construction projects here are full of them...even union jobs are getting filled with Mexicans...legal and illegal. Those kinds of jobs certainly aren't "Jobs Americans don't want" since even a union laborer in the Bay area makes about $25./hr with an excellent benefits package, and union carpenters make over $30/hr plus their fringe package.
It's not about the illegals coming here to work the fields. Not many people really get too worked up over that, but that's only a small portion of the jobs that are becoming more and more staffed by illegal immigrants.
I'd be in favor of a migrant worker program that withheld as much as 1/2 of their wages (similar to the old Bracero program, except the workers need to actually get the withheld wages this time) that is dependant on them returning back to their country when the season is over.
Any illegal that wants to apply for legal entry, should be required to return to his/her native land to do so.
Jumping to the head of the line (by entering illegally) is hardly "fair" to the hundreds of thousands of people world-wide who are waiting their turn and "playing by the rules."
Many of my neighbors are legal immigrants from several different countries, and they are ALL against the illegal immigration.
It's not about the illegals coming here to work the fields. Not many people really get too worked up over that, but that's only a small portion of the jobs that are becoming more and more staffed by illegal immigrants.
I'd be in favor of a migrant worker program that withheld as much as 1/2 of their wages (similar to the old Bracero program, except the workers need to actually get the withheld wages this time) that is dependant on them returning back to their country when the season is over.
Any illegal that wants to apply for legal entry, should be required to return to his/her native land to do so.
Jumping to the head of the line (by entering illegally) is hardly "fair" to the hundreds of thousands of people world-wide who are waiting their turn and "playing by the rules."
Many of my neighbors are legal immigrants from several different countries, and they are ALL against the illegal immigration.
QueBert
Lifer
- Jan 6, 2002
- 22,983
- 1,179
- 126
if companies are illegally hiring Illegal Aliens you all on here who are mad at the Illegals getting the jobs should re-direct your anger towards the companies that are ILLEGALLY hiring them! If a company didn't do it they wouldn't get jobs would they?
Here's the bottom line, if they live here illegally or not, it costs them the same to live as you or I right? So if a dude from Mexico is willing to work for 5 bucks an hour, well more power to him because he isn't magically living for less than I do. If he wants to struggle day to day to remain in this country I applaud him. If he's willing to work for less than min wage than Americans need to be willing to do the same. But Americans think they deserve more for doing the same job, and a lot of the time being worse at it. I have a friend who is here illegally, he works 2 full time jobs and only takes Sunday off, and on Sunday he typically tries to find side jobs to do. He busts his ass sometimes 100 hours a week to give his family a place to live. I wouldn't work 2 full jobs 6 days a week to make less than a lot of people make at 1 40 hour job. He gets up @ 5AM every day and doesn't get home until 11-12 at night. And he's still making less than 600 a week, that's pretty damn sad if you ask me. And never once does he complain. Sure he's here illegally but show me a single American who would do what he does. Most I know would have a hard time working 1 job for min wage, 2 full time for LESS? not going to happen.
Here's the bottom line, if they live here illegally or not, it costs them the same to live as you or I right? So if a dude from Mexico is willing to work for 5 bucks an hour, well more power to him because he isn't magically living for less than I do. If he wants to struggle day to day to remain in this country I applaud him. If he's willing to work for less than min wage than Americans need to be willing to do the same. But Americans think they deserve more for doing the same job, and a lot of the time being worse at it. I have a friend who is here illegally, he works 2 full time jobs and only takes Sunday off, and on Sunday he typically tries to find side jobs to do. He busts his ass sometimes 100 hours a week to give his family a place to live. I wouldn't work 2 full jobs 6 days a week to make less than a lot of people make at 1 40 hour job. He gets up @ 5AM every day and doesn't get home until 11-12 at night. And he's still making less than 600 a week, that's pretty damn sad if you ask me. And never once does he complain. Sure he's here illegally but show me a single American who would do what he does. Most I know would have a hard time working 1 job for min wage, 2 full time for LESS? not going to happen.
IAteYourMother
Lifer
- Nov 3, 2004
- 10,491
- 22
- 81
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter