Stop licensing doctors?

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I mentioned this before:
Those damn overpriced doctors...
I think that with a $500b trade deficit, the US might as well import doctors
Cheap ones. Like from Cuba.

1) you get to free them from their dictator.
2) cuba's literacy rate is the same as the US's.
3) cuba's life expectancy is the same as the US's.
4) cuba's birth rate is the same as the US's.

They've gotta have some good cheap doctors

PS. ~30million americans speak spanish.Census

This is already being done. Look at the telephone directory of most hospitals in the blue states and some red ones and see how many names you can really pronounce.

On one of the news shows last evening was the story of a parent who was in a large suit involving a medical group, a hospital and a doctor. The doctor had allegedly damaged his child and the infant later died after some years of suffering. This was soneone in discourse against the limitation of large medical malpractice suits. The doctor in question had previously lost eight (8) similar suits. The doctor is sort of untouchable now as he is in Canada.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Stunt
I mentioned this before:
Those damn overpriced doctors...
I think that with a $500b trade deficit, the US might as well import doctors
Cheap ones. Like from Cuba.

1) you get to free them from their dictator.
2) cuba's literacy rate is the same as the US's.
3) cuba's life expectancy is the same as the US's.
4) cuba's birth rate is the same as the US's.

They've gotta have some good cheap doctors

PS. ~30million americans speak spanish.Census

Or we could just open up more med schools. Med schools are limited to the number of doctors they can turn out(forget which organization sets the limit).

The AMA (American Medical Association, I think). See previous post, other thread.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Stunt
I mentioned this before:
Those damn overpriced doctors...
I think that with a $500b trade deficit, the US might as well import doctors
Cheap ones. Like from Cuba.

1) you get to free them from their dictator.
2) cuba's literacy rate is the same as the US's.
3) cuba's life expectancy is the same as the US's.
4) cuba's birth rate is the same as the US's.

They've gotta have some good cheap doctors

PS. ~30million americans speak spanish.Census

Or we could just open up more med schools. Med schools are limited to the number of doctors they can turn out(forget which organization sets the limit).

He's talking about how doctors are so expensive.
You are saying produce more doctors so demand is much lower and salary is cheaper??

Exact opposite to what the OP is asking...hehe

Producing more doctors would also lower the cost of producing doctors(more student to bare the burden of supporting a med school).

Heh you guys would have a brain drain as the rest of the world would pay more for doctors.
There is a shortage in Canada. We would pay well for your doctors.

Doctors actually make much more here than in Canada. Doctors and nurses relocate frequently. Intrestingly, Canadian medical professionals can work in the US, but not the reverse without recertifying. Nationalized medicine has it's advantages.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: GuinnessExtraStout
Licensing does not insure that Doctor's know what they are doing. Doctors are basically prescription dispensers. Poeple shouldn't need to pay a doctor's fee to get some mediine they obviously need.You should be able to just go talk to the pharmacist and get it.

Most countries that I have lived in are much more liberal in this area than we are. Mexico, and Ukraine were for sure. Canada was pretty tight, Canadian doctors were pretty liberal about scripts, but you had to have one for antibiotics and most addictive drugs. In Ukraine and Mexico, if you could pronounce it, you could buy it.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: charrison
Or we could just open up more med schools. Med schools are limited to the number of doctors they can turn out(forget which organization sets the limit).

I've read that the real problem is the AMA. It limits the number of licensed physicians to keep their salaries artificially inflated. I cannot vouch for this -- not my field at all -- but I thought it was an interesting theory.

Not just a theory. It is a fact. It has been a problem in medicine since I can remember.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: charrison
Or we could just open up more med schools. Med schools are limited to the number of doctors they can turn out(forget which organization sets the limit).

I've read that the real problem is the AMA. It limits the number of licensed physicians to keep their salaries artificially inflated. I cannot vouch for this -- not my field at all -- but I thought it was an interesting theory.

Not just a theory. It is a fact. It has been a problem in medicine since I can remember.

Yep. 100 Years of Medical Robbery

 

[imported_Condor]

Fantastic link!

 

[aidanjm]

a bit of red tape is the price we pay for higher levels of safety and security. it's a price most people are willing to pay.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: aidanjm
a bit of red tape is the price we pay for higher levels of safety and security. it's a price most people are willing to pay.

Security from what? Your statement smacks of authoritarianism.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: amdfanboy
Someone I know (he calls himself a libertarian if you have to know) suggested that a good way to fix the health care problem was to simply stop licensing doctors. He said this would allow for people to get less expensive care possibly done by nurses when you don't really need a doctor, like for check ups. Because nurses aren't paid as much, this would save people money. I responded with "But, wouldn't that allow a lot of bad doctors to practice possibly hurting people" as this was some concern to me. Of course he responded with "No, not really. People will realize these doctors are bad and won't go to them; let the market decide." Do you think this would be something that would have broad support? Do you think it would help reduce cost?

your friend needs to look at his logic... what's to prevent people from going to nurses right now?

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: charrison
Or we could just open up more med schools. Med schools are limited to the number of doctors they can turn out(forget which organization sets the limit).

I've read that the real problem is the AMA. It limits the number of licensed physicians to keep their salaries artificially inflated. I cannot vouch for this -- not my field at all -- but I thought it was an interesting theory.

That is what a lawyer friend of mine said as well. He actually said the legal field should do what the AMA does as there are too many lawyers.

EXACTLY. These professions act in their own interests which is normal. But the population at large should not be duped by claims that certification is helping them. It only helps those with certification. (For the record I think doctors do need some level of certification though-- at least surgeons).

 

[KevinH]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: charrison
Or we could just open up more med schools. Med schools are limited to the number of doctors they can turn out(forget which organization sets the limit).

I've read that the real problem is the AMA. It limits the number of licensed physicians to keep their salaries artificially inflated. I cannot vouch for this -- not my field at all -- but I thought it was an interesting theory.

That is what a lawyer friend of mine said as well. He actually said the legal field should do what the AMA does as there are too many lawyers.

I can't speak for every doctor but I can speak for my sister and some of her friends going through residency rigth now. THey' effectively been going through school for 4 years undergrad studying non-stop for the most competitive field to gain admittance (not counting pro athletics and entertainers obviously). As a reward, they got several more years of medical school where like law school they did nothing but study yet again. The good part comes now when theyr'e working 80 hours and getting $36000 a year for their efforts. The cool thing about this is that they get to do this for three years before being done. Oh yeah, there's the part about being saddled with a 100-200K debt upon graduation ...the cost of a home in some places in America. So 11-12 years after begining the process that had no garuntees to be successful, studying in the most competitive field, being saddled with an outrageous debt...a doctor can finally make six figures and up. Personally, HELL yeah doctors get what they deserve. Whether or not hte process itself needs addressing is another matter.

 

[StageLeft]

What a staggeringly bad idea. It would reduce costs, but as it is I can take a kitchen knife to middle stomach if I need a gall bladder out. I don't because it's stupid to do - without licensing you'd not know what you're getting. IMMEDIATELY you'd see third party people coming along and they'd independently verify professional ability of a doctor. Then people would only go to those licensed doctors, and so in the end you simply couldn't implement this system if you tried.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Tom
stop giving 20-30% of our health care dollars to insurance companies. (I made those numbers up, btw, but I bet it's somewhere in that range)

only way to get better healthcare for less money. The economic model that led to the idea of private insurance, doesn't work for healthcare, it just adds a layer of cost.

So people should go around with no health insurance? Great idea.

"The total for that surgery will be $500,000."

"*sigh*, time to sell the house and car I guess."

:roll:

I didn't say people shouldn't have health insurance, in fact I think health insurance should be mandatory, like social security and medicare.

 

[alent1234]

so the money your employer pays to private insurance will simply come out of your pocket as higher taxes. Or do you think that socialized healthcare will magically reduce costs.

 

[alent1234]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Tom
stop giving 20-30% of our health care dollars to insurance companies. (I made those numbers up, btw, but I bet it's somewhere in that range)

only way to get better healthcare for less money. The economic model that led to the idea of private insurance, doesn't work for healthcare, it just adds a layer of cost.

The problem with insurance currently, is that medical insurance is not being used for insurance. It is being used for everything. Insurance is supposed to be for the unexpected, not every cold and sniffel.

what else is new? people want every service under the sun and don't want to pay for it. today everyone wants an unlimited supply of the numerous lifestyle drugs out there and someone else to pick up the bill.

 

[Zebo]

How about just opening new medical schools and increasing martriculation in existing schools?... It's been awile but last I heard no new medical school opened in the united states in 15 years. hardy enough to keep pace with burgening popluation. But like all unions, the AMA wants limited numbers of employees to keep thier existing members salaries high. Same goes for all professional schools... medical related...pharmacy, nursing, podiatry, dental etc. Same reason a nurse makes 80K a longshormen makes 150K. "They" artifically cut the supply of labor. My wife said out of 1000 qualified applicants to her nursing school only 74 were placed.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: KevinH

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: charrison
Or we could just open up more med schools. Med schools are limited to the number of doctors they can turn out(forget which organization sets the limit).

I've read that the real problem is the AMA. It limits the number of licensed physicians to keep their salaries artificially inflated. I cannot vouch for this -- not my field at all -- but I thought it was an interesting theory.

That is what a lawyer friend of mine said as well. He actually said the legal field should do what the AMA does as there are too many lawyers.

I can't speak for every doctor but I can speak for my sister and some of her friends going through residency rigth now. THey' effectively been going through school for 4 years undergrad studying non-stop for the most competitive field to gain admittance (not counting pro athletics and entertainers obviously). As a reward, they got several more years of medical school where like law school they did nothing but study yet again. The good part comes now when theyr'e working 80 hours and getting $36000 a year for their efforts. The cool thing about this is that they get to do this for three years before being done. Oh yeah, there's the part about being saddled with a 100-200K debt upon graduation ...the cost of a home in some places in America. So 11-12 years after begining the process that had no garuntees to be successful, studying in the most competitive field, being saddled with an outrageous debt...a doctor can finally make six figures and up. Personally, HELL yeah doctors get what they deserve. Whether or not hte process itself needs addressing is another matter.

So do you want to decide what every profession deserves? Maybe we can have some central organization where you set salaries and the number of doctors... or we could let the market sort it all out. (There are plenty of people that want to be doctors that can't right now... despite all the factors you mentioned. )

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: alent1234
so the money your employer pays to private insurance will simply come out of your pocket as higher taxes. Or do you think that socialized healthcare will magically reduce costs.

Yes. Canada spends a lot less per capita on healthcare than we do.

 

[alent1234]

canada also has some really long waiting times to get healthcare and their socialized system doesn't buy the newest drugs as soon as they come out. They wait a few years until they become cheaper. Canada also has smaller wages per capita so that will also explain lower healthcare expenses.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I mentioned this before:
Those damn overpriced doctors...
I think that with a $500b trade deficit, the US might as well import doctors
Cheap ones. Like from Cuba.

1) you get to free them from their dictator.
2) cuba's literacy rate is the same as the US's.
3) cuba's life expectancy is the same as the US's.
4) cuba's birth rate is the same as the US's.

They've gotta have some good cheap doctors

PS. ~30million americans speak spanish.Census

They are already dong that, except from Canada.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Tom
stop giving 20-30% of our health care dollars to insurance companies. (I made those numbers up, btw, but I bet it's somewhere in that range)

only way to get better healthcare for less money. The economic model that led to the idea of private insurance, doesn't work for healthcare, it just adds a layer of cost.

So people should go around with no health insurance? Great idea.

"The total for that surgery will be $500,000."

"*sigh*, time to sell the house and car I guess."

:roll:

I didn't say people shouldn't have health insurance, in fact I think health insurance should be mandatory, like social security and medicare.

Good point, but it is more like:

"The total for that surgery will be $500,000."

"I don't have that much."

"Then die!"

Something like highway robbery without the gun.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: alent1234

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Tom
stop giving 20-30% of our health care dollars to insurance companies. (I made those numbers up, btw, but I bet it's somewhere in that range)

only way to get better healthcare for less money. The economic model that led to the idea of private insurance, doesn't work for healthcare, it just adds a layer of cost.

The problem with insurance currently, is that medical insurance is not being used for insurance. It is being used for everything. Insurance is supposed to be for the unexpected, not every cold and sniffel.

what else is new? people want every service under the sun and don't want to pay for it. today everyone wants an unlimited supply of the numerous lifestyle drugs out there and someone else to pick up the bill.

If mechanics charged like doctors, it would cost 300K for a tune up!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: alent1234

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Tom
stop giving 20-30% of our health care dollars to insurance companies. (I made those numbers up, btw, but I bet it's somewhere in that range)

only way to get better healthcare for less money. The economic model that led to the idea of private insurance, doesn't work for healthcare, it just adds a layer of cost.

The problem with insurance currently, is that medical insurance is not being used for insurance. It is being used for everything. Insurance is supposed to be for the unexpected, not every cold and sniffel.

what else is new? people want every service under the sun and don't want to pay for it. today everyone wants an unlimited supply of the numerous lifestyle drugs out there and someone else to pick up the bill.

If mechanics charged like doctors, it would cost 300K for a tune up!

If Bill Gates was paid like McDonalds burger flippers, software would cost 2 cents!

 

[Geardo]

If we eliminated all Government, and private medical insurance we would be better off!