"Stomach Pacemaker" -- Zap Away Those Extra Pounds

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Landroval

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2005
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Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Landroval
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Landroval
Originally posted by: Skoorb
How long have Samoans been like that?


Like Hawaiians, it is believed to be caused by modernization and changing diet, as well as cultural factors. One could argue the same for fat white people in the U.S.

Again, Samoans were found to be a very chubby/obese people by the first white explorers on their native island.

If by chubby you mean a lot larger than average white people, maybe. Just like now in Hawaii, when people return to their native diets (as they have done in medical studies here) instead of eating plate lunches with 2000+ calories for a single mean), they are not overweight.

Samoans were on average, fat BEFORE they were exposed to westerners or a modern diet.

Why is there such a denial of the OBVIOUS differences in genetics and how it plays in obesity?


There was very little contact before the early part of the nineteenth century. Where are you getting this idea from? And when I was in American Samoa they were trying to feed me things like oily potato salad, 4 scoops of rice and Budweiser. It is not shocking they would be getting fatter. When I was on the plane a HUGE woman, seriously like 6'5" was too wide to sit in the seat next to me. She was NOT overweight or fat, just huge. But I am sure by most standards you'd call her obese.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,231
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Skoorb
And genetics explains why some people can eat the exact same diet, and one end up obese while the other is thin as a rail.
Yes, but of course in the right hands genetics are not a dicator, but merely an advisor. Put that rail on a 7k forced feeding diet and he'll gain weight, just as nobody from a POW camp ever came out resembling a blimp.

Yes, but that rail can NEVER reach morbid obesity.

Not like the man who remains chubby on a 1500 calorie diet can when he eats a normal diet.
True. In terms of body changing, will power aside, I think naturally chubby people have more potential. A guy who's bone thin and always has been will never hit the 900 lb club, but a guy who's always been fat could get into the single digits of bodyfat, if he really made it his life's ambition to do it.

Well, yes. I never said fat people couldn't be thin. I merely am pointing out that the ability and ease of reaching obesity IS genetic.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,231
19,051
146
Originally posted by: Landroval
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Landroval
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Landroval
Originally posted by: Skoorb
How long have Samoans been like that?


Like Hawaiians, it is believed to be caused by modernization and changing diet, as well as cultural factors. One could argue the same for fat white people in the U.S.

Again, Samoans were found to be a very chubby/obese people by the first white explorers on their native island.

If by chubby you mean a lot larger than average white people, maybe. Just like now in Hawaii, when people return to their native diets (as they have done in medical studies here) instead of eating plate lunches with 2000+ calories for a single mean), they are not overweight.

Samoans were on average, fat BEFORE they were exposed to westerners or a modern diet.

Why is there such a denial of the OBVIOUS differences in genetics and how it plays in obesity?


There was very little contact before the early part of the nineteenth century. Where are you getting this idea from? And when I was in American Samoa they were trying to feed me things like oily potato salad, 4 scoops of rice and Budweiser. It is not shocking they would be getting fatter. When I was on the plane a HUGE woman, seriously like 6'5" was too wide to sit in the seat next to me. She was NOT overweight or fat, just huge. But I am sure by most standards you'd call her obese.

http://www.cdc.gov/genomics/info/perspectives/obesity.htm#Genetics

Look, there is incontrovertible evidence that the propensity for obesity has it's roots in genetics.

And the history surrounding Samoan obesity is all over the web. It's been studied more than any other culture in the struggle to understand genetic obesity.
 

Landroval

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2005
2,275
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0
There may be a genetic factor, but that's a far cry from saying Samoans are fat by design and that it is much harder for them than the average person to stay a healthy weight. If you went to local barbeques like I do, you would see that the fat people eat huge volumes of all the "wrong" foods. My friend Jeff regularly orders 3 dinners when we go out. I have seen him eat 6 Big Macs and call it a snack. It's a wonder he is only about 30 lbs overweight.
 

Landroval

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2005
2,275
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Landroval
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Landroval
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Landroval
Originally posted by: Skoorb
How long have Samoans been like that?


Like Hawaiians, it is believed to be caused by modernization and changing diet, as well as cultural factors. One could argue the same for fat white people in the U.S.

Again, Samoans were found to be a very chubby/obese people by the first white explorers on their native island.

If by chubby you mean a lot larger than average white people, maybe. Just like now in Hawaii, when people return to their native diets (as they have done in medical studies here) instead of eating plate lunches with 2000+ calories for a single mean), they are not overweight.

Samoans were on average, fat BEFORE they were exposed to westerners or a modern diet.

Why is there such a denial of the OBVIOUS differences in genetics and how it plays in obesity?


There was very little contact before the early part of the nineteenth century. Where are you getting this idea from? And when I was in American Samoa they were trying to feed me things like oily potato salad, 4 scoops of rice and Budweiser. It is not shocking they would be getting fatter. When I was on the plane a HUGE woman, seriously like 6'5" was too wide to sit in the seat next to me. She was NOT overweight or fat, just huge. But I am sure by most standards you'd call her obese.

http://www.cdc.gov/genomics/info/perspectives/obesity.htm#Genetics

Look, there is incontrovertible evidence that the propensity for obesity has it's roots in genetics.

And the history surrounding Samoan obesity is all over the web. It's been studied more than any other culture in the struggle to understand genetic obesity.


Yes, but there's a differernce between a little extra fat and saying someone is predisposed to weight 350 lbs. It's far more diet and lifestyle than any other thing.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,231
19,051
146
Originally posted by: Landroval
There may be a genetic factor, but that's a far cry from saying Samoans are fat by design and that it is much harder for them than the average person to stay a healthy weight. If you went to local barbeques like I do, you would see that the fat people eat huge volumes of all the "wrong" foods. My friend Jeff regularly orders 3 dinners when we go out. I have seen him eat 6 Big Macs and call it a snack. It's a wonder he is only about 30 lbs overweight.

And then there are people who can eat exactly the same thing and stay skinny.

I'm not saying diet doesn't play a part. But there ARE people out there who can eat normal diets and gain massive weight.

Samoans are at an 80% obesity rate in the US eating basically the same diet European Americans do, yet European Americans currently have a 30% obesity rate. That's a GENETIC difference.
 

Landroval

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2005
2,275
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Landroval
There may be a genetic factor, but that's a far cry from saying Samoans are fat by design and that it is much harder for them than the average person to stay a healthy weight. If you went to local barbeques like I do, you would see that the fat people eat huge volumes of all the "wrong" foods. My friend Jeff regularly orders 3 dinners when we go out. I have seen him eat 6 Big Macs and call it a snack. It's a wonder he is only about 30 lbs overweight.

And then there are people who can eat exactly the same thing and stay skinny.

I'm not saying diet doesn't play a part. But there ARE people out there who can eat normal diets and gain massive weight.

Samoans are at an 80% obesity rate in the US eating basically the same diet European Americans do, yet European Americans currently have a 30% obesity rate. That's a GENETIC difference.


That's assuming they are eating the same things. You are not taking into account **culture** and lifestyle at all. The genetic portion of the difference is not as huge as people might want it to be.
 

orion23

Platinum Member
Oct 1, 2003
2,035
0
71
Genetic or not something needs to be done about obesity.
Some Schools do not require studenst to participate in physical fitness classes and that is just wrong.
Parents feeding their kids pizza or bagels for breakfast is also wrong
People using elevators to go up 1 floor is wrong.
Watching overweight parents walk witht their overweight 4 year old is just wrong. Wouldn't they want a better future for their young one?
Companies advertising and using models for new lines of clothing for heavy people is also wrong. It just makes being overweight acceptable.

There are a thousand reaons why most people in the us are overweight now, and a lot of it has to do with technology allowing people to do most things using very little energy.

Something must be done, this is out of hand
 

SludgeFactory

Platinum Member
Sep 14, 2001
2,969
2
81
Originally posted by: Amused
Samoans are at an 80% obesity rate in the US eating basically the same diet European Americans do, yet European Americans currently have a 30% obesity rate. That's a GENETIC difference.

The abstract says 80% overweight, not obese. Something like 60+% of American adults are overweight.

There's a very strong cultural component in the Samoan problem. I don't see any proof presented here to say genetics is even the primary reason they have high rates of being overweight.


Text

For thousands of years, the inhabitants of the Pacific
Islands were isolated from the rest of the world, allowing
their social, cultural and economic patterns to develop
untouched (Zimmet, 1979). When the Europeans began
arriving in the 17th and 18th centuries, the people of the
Pacific were described as ?strong, muscular and mostly
in good health? (Hughes, 2003). The health of these
islanders was community-based and ?a shared sense of
well-being? permeated the collective. Food had ?symbolic
and economic importance? as opposed to a physiological
or biological imperative. This concept was epitomized in
the aristocracy of these island populations and, as a result,
they were usually the largest people in the community
(Hughes, 2003).


Complicating the task for health officials
and policy proponents is the common attitude among
Pacific Islanders that obesity traditionally has been a sign
of high social position and wealth (Ringrose and Zimmet,
1979, p. 1340). Since a high value was placed on a wellfed
person, a commitment was made to prepare large
quantities of foods for the traditional leaders and great
effort was required to feed them (Pollock, 1992).