Stock market futures are up HUGE

[bobcpg]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Xylitol
wouldn't need to see all these government controlled mortgage things if people
had followed their contracts and had paid as they were supposed to instead of just
ditching their houses as foreclosures (not that it's not the banks' problems either)

yes, it's nice to see how the American public will pay to bail these morons out just like the Savings & Loan scandal from a decade ago.

Keep in mind how the government runs the US budget....

What's the alternative?

I am sure I'll get back a very lame "let them fail!", with no thought on how that would affect the whole economy.

Sometimes I really wonder how this country functions with so many ignorant people. Too many don't even realize how a company works. They simply get their job and ignore the rest. They have no idea how it funds itself, how it exists in the financial markets, where it gets working capital, or how it gets equity.

It's pretty sad, actually, because if people even understood a fraction of what a finance person does, they wouldn't be so controlled by politicians.

Let em fail, the system will fix itself. I didn't see any help when the Tech bubble burst, that would have been nice.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: bobcpg

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Xylitol
wouldn't need to see all these government controlled mortgage things if people
had followed their contracts and had paid as they were supposed to instead of just
ditching their houses as foreclosures (not that it's not the banks' problems either)

yes, it's nice to see how the American public will pay to bail these morons out just like the Savings & Loan scandal from a decade ago.

Keep in mind how the government runs the US budget....

What's the alternative?

I am sure I'll get back a very lame "let them fail!", with no thought on how that would affect the whole economy.

Sometimes I really wonder how this country functions with so many ignorant people. Too many don't even realize how a company works. They simply get their job and ignore the rest. They have no idea how it funds itself, how it exists in the financial markets, where it gets working capital, or how it gets equity.

It's pretty sad, actually, because if people even understood a fraction of what a finance person does, they wouldn't be so controlled by politicians.

Let em fail, the system will fix itself. I didn't see any help when the Tech bubble burst, that would have been nice.

Except for the foreign owned bonds (read PRC and JPN). If you piss of those countries, they dump their bonds and then the USofA would be in real shit. As it stands, the states is living on borrowed cash. Take that away and it's game over.

Who do you think the Feds are going to screw?

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Xylitol
wouldn't need to see all these government controlled mortgage things if people
had followed their contracts and had paid as they were supposed to instead of just
ditching their houses as foreclosures (not that it's not the banks' problems either)

yes, it's nice to see how the American public will pay to bail these morons out just like the Savings & Loan scandal from a decade ago.

Keep in mind how the government runs the US budget....

What's the alternative?

I am sure I'll get back a very lame "let them fail!", with no thought on how that would affect the whole economy.

Sometimes I really wonder how this country functions with so many ignorant people. Too many don't even realize how a company works. They simply get their job and ignore the rest. They have no idea how it funds itself, how it exists in the financial markets, where it gets working capital, or how it gets equity.

It's pretty sad, actually, because if people even understood a fraction of what a finance person does, they wouldn't be so controlled by politicians.

Seize the assets of everyone up in Fannie Mae and Freddie got fingered and help them pay for it/else at the very least fire some people for being stupid morons.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: bobcpg

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Xylitol
wouldn't need to see all these government controlled mortgage things if people
had followed their contracts and had paid as they were supposed to instead of just
ditching their houses as foreclosures (not that it's not the banks' problems either)

yes, it's nice to see how the American public will pay to bail these morons out just like the Savings & Loan scandal from a decade ago.

Keep in mind how the government runs the US budget....

What's the alternative?

I am sure I'll get back a very lame "let them fail!", with no thought on how that would affect the whole economy.

Sometimes I really wonder how this country functions with so many ignorant people. Too many don't even realize how a company works. They simply get their job and ignore the rest. They have no idea how it funds itself, how it exists in the financial markets, where it gets working capital, or how it gets equity.

It's pretty sad, actually, because if people even understood a fraction of what a finance person does, they wouldn't be so controlled by politicians.

Let em fail, the system will fix itself. I didn't see any help when the Tech bubble burst, that would have been nice.

So, you're advocating throwing the entire globe into a depression because we can't fix our own shit without destroying the world's economy.

Wow, great idea. Are you 16?

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Xylitol
wouldn't need to see all these government controlled mortgage things if people
had followed their contracts and had paid as they were supposed to instead of just
ditching their houses as foreclosures (not that it's not the banks' problems either)

yes, it's nice to see how the American public will pay to bail these morons out just like the Savings & Loan scandal from a decade ago.

Keep in mind how the government runs the US budget....

What's the alternative?

I am sure I'll get back a very lame "let them fail!", with no thought on how that would affect the whole economy.

Sometimes I really wonder how this country functions with so many ignorant people. Too many don't even realize how a company works. They simply get their job and ignore the rest. They have no idea how it funds itself, how it exists in the financial markets, where it gets working capital, or how it gets equity.

It's pretty sad, actually, because if people even understood a fraction of what a finance person does, they wouldn't be so controlled by politicians.

Seize the assets of everyone up in Fannie Mae and Freddie got fingered and help them pay for it/else at the very least fire some people for being stupid morons.

I wouldn't be totally against this. However, it opens up a lot of problems with regards to officer actions vs corporate actions and liabilities.

 

[SSSnail]

Originally posted by: Bignate603
Maybe my 401k will make up that 15% loss in the last 4 months.

🙁 (but then I remember an important saying "This too shall pass!")

The way I see it...

Increased in Gov. debts
Gov starting to own everything (or the important financial organizations anyways)
Further weakening of US dollar
Wait for opportune time and strengthen US dollar
...
Profits?

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Xylitol
wouldn't need to see all these government controlled mortgage things if people
had followed their contracts and had paid as they were supposed to instead of just
ditching their houses as foreclosures (not that it's not the banks' problems either)

yes, it's nice to see how the American public will pay to bail these morons out just like the Savings & Loan scandal from a decade ago.

Keep in mind how the government runs the US budget....

What's the alternative?

I am sure I'll get back a very lame "let them fail!", with no thought on how that would affect the whole economy.

Sometimes I really wonder how this country functions with so many ignorant people. Too many don't even realize how a company works. They simply get their job and ignore the rest. They have no idea how it funds itself, how it exists in the financial markets, where it gets working capital, or how it gets equity.

It's pretty sad, actually, because if people even understood a fraction of what a finance person does, they wouldn't be so controlled by politicians.

Seize the assets of everyone up in Fannie Mae and Freddie got fingered and help them pay for it/else at the very least fire some people for being stupid morons.

Law doesn't work that way. I would not fire those guys though, that would just give them the severance package. Demote them to street sweeper.

I still don't understand how this was allowed to happen in the first place.

Hopefully this is enough to keep the US from collapsing.

 

[SSSnail]

Well, to be fair, the American public (the stupid ones and the greedy ones) created this mess, I think it's fitting that they (and their kids/grand kids) should pay for it. Those of us that wasn't greedy or stupid, oh well, just another tax increase. Get used to it.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Xylitol
wouldn't need to see all these government controlled mortgage things if people
had followed their contracts and had paid as they were supposed to instead of just
ditching their houses as foreclosures (not that it's not the banks' problems either)

yes, it's nice to see how the American public will pay to bail these morons out just like the Savings & Loan scandal from a decade ago.

Keep in mind how the government runs the US budget....

What's the alternative?

I am sure I'll get back a very lame "let them fail!", with no thought on how that would affect the whole economy.

Sometimes I really wonder how this country functions with so many ignorant people. Too many don't even realize how a company works. They simply get their job and ignore the rest. They have no idea how it funds itself, how it exists in the financial markets, where it gets working capital, or how it gets equity.

It's pretty sad, actually, because if people even understood a fraction of what a finance person does, they wouldn't be so controlled by politicians.

Seize the assets of everyone up in Fannie Mae and Freddie got fingered and help them pay for it/else at the very least fire some people for being stupid morons.

Law doesn't work that way. I would not fire those guys though, that would just give them the severance package. Demote them to street sweeper.

I still don't understand how this was allowed to happen in the first place.

Hopefully this is enough to keep the US from collapsing.

Severence packages should be nullified. This is why we need an SEC type commission to investigate businesses so that CEO's and board members are held accountable for raping their employees.

 

[LOFBenson]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Xylitol
wouldn't need to see all these government controlled mortgage things if people
had followed their contracts and had paid as they were supposed to instead of just
ditching their houses as foreclosures (not that it's not the banks' problems either)

yes, it's nice to see how the American public will pay to bail these morons out just like the Savings & Loan scandal from a decade ago.

Keep in mind how the government runs the US budget....

What's the alternative?

I am sure I'll get back a very lame "let them fail!", with no thought on how that would affect the whole economy.

Sometimes I really wonder how this country functions with so many ignorant people. Too many don't even realize how a company works. They simply get their job and ignore the rest. They have no idea how it funds itself, how it exists in the financial markets, where it gets working capital, or how it gets equity.

It's pretty sad, actually, because if people even understood a fraction of what a finance person does, they wouldn't be so controlled by politicians.

The GSE's should have raised rates. Eventually they would find a price that was sufficient to draw investors in and provide them with the cash they need. Rates were artificially low in the past to such a degree that now rates will have to be set above "normal" market rates in order to make up for losses. If the GSE's raise rates enough someone else with cash would come in and compete eventually.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are being forced to keep rates not only below what would allow profitability but also below any serious attempt at risk based pricing. They can't borrow at 4% to buy loans at 7%, pay all the middle men, have 5% of the loans go bad, and still make a profit anymore. The math just doesn't add up. But, for now at least, our treasury is going to throw some taxpayer money in there until it does.

Higher mortgage rates would accelerate housing price declines but these declines are going to happen anyways without some serious wage inflation. In the end it doesn't really matter how low prices go as long as there are still buyers willing to purchase.

And the best part is that the GSE's weren't really having problems aquiring funding. According to everything i've read their auctions have all been sold out since Paulson got his backstop two months ago.

This wasn't done because of violated regulations or because these guys were in serious danger of bankruptcy. This move seems to me to be purely because it was seen as a good idea to begin to seriously subsidize mortgage rates.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: LOFBenson

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Xylitol
wouldn't need to see all these government controlled mortgage things if people
had followed their contracts and had paid as they were supposed to instead of just
ditching their houses as foreclosures (not that it's not the banks' problems either)

yes, it's nice to see how the American public will pay to bail these morons out just like the Savings & Loan scandal from a decade ago.

Keep in mind how the government runs the US budget....

What's the alternative?

I am sure I'll get back a very lame "let them fail!", with no thought on how that would affect the whole economy.

Sometimes I really wonder how this country functions with so many ignorant people. Too many don't even realize how a company works. They simply get their job and ignore the rest. They have no idea how it funds itself, how it exists in the financial markets, where it gets working capital, or how it gets equity.

It's pretty sad, actually, because if people even understood a fraction of what a finance person does, they wouldn't be so controlled by politicians.

The GSE's should have raised rates. Eventually they would find a price that was sufficient to draw investors in and provide them with the cash they need. Rates were artificially low in the past to such a degree that now rates will have to be set above "normal" market rates in order to make up for losses. If the GSE's raise rates enough someone else with cash would come in and compete eventually.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are being forced to keep rates not only below what would allow profitability but also below any serious attempt at risk based pricing. They can't borrow at 4% to buy loans at 7%, pay all the middle men, have 5% of the loans go bad, and still make a profit anymore. The math just doesn't add up. But, for now at least, our treasury is going to throw some taxpayer money in there until it does.

Higher mortgage rates would accelerate housing price declines but these declines are going to happen anyways without some serious wage inflation. In the end it doesn't really matter how low prices go as long as there are still buyers willing to purchase.

And the best part is that the GSE's weren't really having problems aquiring funding. According to everything i've read their auctions have all been sold out since Paulson got his backstop two months ago.

This wasn't done because of violated regulations or because these guys were in serious danger of bankruptcy. This move seems to me to be purely because it was seen as a good idea to begin to seriously subsidize mortgage rates.

LOL. If it were only that easy.

Do you even know what the bond market has been like for RMBS transactions? The problem isn't pricing of bonds, its actually finding somebody who wants them at *ANY* price.

Right now, a friend of mine could close roughly $2BN in securitization conduit transactions. Those, combined, would net him approximately $100MM in *ANNUAL* revenue. Last year, before this proble, they would have net him approximately $12M in revenue. The ROE for those deals, since they are all so highly structured with ridiculous pricing, is somewhere around 800%. Yes, 800% ROE.

Do you think he can close a single one?

Nope. It's not because the pricing sucks, because the pricing is ridiculously good. It's because he can't get any liquidity. Nobody will buy.

As far as your bond math, you're wrong. They can borrow at 4%, get 7% interest, pay fees, and result in 5% defaults. Because 7% interest is over the life of the loan and 5% defaults is over the life of the static pool. Try learning ABS bond math before you venture into a debate like this.

The GSEs were only in trouble when they started purchasing huge amounts of subprime, Alt-A, and private label RMBS. Doing so, to make a market beyond their traditional markets, eroded their capital base and let them sustain mark-to-market losses, further eroding their capital base.

Conforming, prime, mortgages are performing relatively well, and will most likely continue to do so. Not staying with their knitting is what killed them, first. Second, it was just taking on too much volume. After lending was shut down everywhere else, they became *THE* lender.

It was too much of a burden and the system eventually collapsed under its own weight.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Xylitol
wouldn't need to see all these government controlled mortgage things if people
had followed their contracts and had paid as they were supposed to instead of just
ditching their houses as foreclosures (not that it's not the banks' problems either)

yes, it's nice to see how the American public will pay to bail these morons out just like the Savings & Loan scandal from a decade ago.

Keep in mind how the government runs the US budget....

What's the alternative?

I am sure I'll get back a very lame "let them fail!", with no thought on how that would affect the whole economy.

Sometimes I really wonder how this country functions with so many ignorant people. Too many don't even realize how a company works. They simply get their job and ignore the rest. They have no idea how it funds itself, how it exists in the financial markets, where it gets working capital, or how it gets equity.

It's pretty sad, actually, because if people even understood a fraction of what a finance person does, they wouldn't be so controlled by politicians.

Seize the assets of everyone up in Fannie Mae and Freddie got fingered and help them pay for it/else at the very least fire some people for being stupid morons.

Law doesn't work that way. I would not fire those guys though, that would just give them the severance package. Demote them to street sweeper.

I still don't understand how this was allowed to happen in the first place.

Hopefully this is enough to keep the US from collapsing.

Severence packages should be nullified. This is why we need an SEC type commission to investigate businesses so that CEO's and board members are held accountable for raping their employees.

Maybe it's high time we copy from HK and setup an ICAC. Except they'll handle these corporate thugs too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...Corruption_(Hong_Kong)