Stimulus I can get behind

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,513
49
91
From TownHall:

In that question is the new president's greatest political danger. He's about to oversee the spending of an unthinkable $1 trillion in taxpayer dollars ($350 billion in the second half of the bank bailout, and at least $700 million in the stimulus package.) Even if growth returns as expected in the second half of 2009, voters in 2010 and beyond will be wondering, and Republicans will be asking: "Where did it go? What did it buy? What do we have to show for it?"

My first job was as a lifeguard in Niles, Ohio's Waddell Pool, a WPA project that still serves that city. I was a frequent visitor to Warren, Ohio's Carnegie Library, another long-lasting monument to expenditures made on the public's behalf, and every college and university in America is home to buildings bearing names, a vast pile of evidence that if you want to remembered --even if only for a short while-- build something.

If President Obama oversees the payout of more than a trillion bucks and cannot point to anything but statistics to show for it in two years, he'll have a political nightmare on his hands, and he'll deserve it. The enormous size of the stimulus is a never-before-seen-in-American-history splurge, and the Democrats thus far show no sign of treating it as other than a vast payout to their friends.

If President Obama was to demand the funding for and enabling legislation to kick start the construction of the dozens of new nuclear power plants this country needs, as well as the wind turbines envisioned by T. Boone Pickens and the grid expansion everyone knows is necessary, not only would he be creating thousands and thousands of great jobs, he'd be powering the U.S. up for a second American century. The appropriation is only the first step. He'd need not a car czar, but a power czar, tasked with delivering the plants on a schedule and authorized to blow through logjams. To get such a massive and necessary expansion of our power supply underway, he'd also have to have "notwithstanding any other law" language in the appropriations bill, or every one of the new plants would be quickly swamped in the sorts of environmental challenges that bedevil every major infrastructure project in the county. (Here's just one example --a proposed 88 mile natural gas pipeline from Baltimore to PA, threatened by the Indiana bat and the bog turtle. Those of us who practice law in the world of endangered species and wetlands know this is the rule for big projects, not the exception.)

The good news is that the spending bill that looms is so huge that all but the most ardent environmentalist can be bought off with a set aside of billions for habitat acquisition for any threatened or endangered species impacted by the power project. The unions would cheer; environmentalists would cheer, conservatives who know that energy equals freedom would cheer. Well before he faced re-election, President Obama could point to the massive outline of the next generation's power supply, a signal achievement with extraordinary multiplier benefits to the economy and national security.

The new president and the Democratic leadership are talking about "green power" and classroom do-overs, the repair of bridges and tax credits for car and home buying. Each of these are fine things, but together they add up to nothing that will be remembered two years from now, and more importantly, to a lost opportunity to have done a great thing.

The Senate GOP should use what leverage that it has to at least force votes on provisions of the stimulus bill that would revitalize the nuclear power industry and quickly build a new generation of nuclear power plants. If President Obama embraces the plan, he'll reap the political benefit, but the country's energy security will be greatly enhanced. Hope that he does.


I don't think it would ever happen, but it would be a tremendous step forward to bring us into the next age, and create a ton of high-paying domestic jobs . Beef up the power grid and provide for greater electrical supply and the electric car becomes that much more reasonable an alternative.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Your analysis has some holes in it.

If everyone plugged in their cars at night, we wouldn't need more power production. Every night, turbines at nuclear plants produce mass amounts of energy that we have no way of storing.
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
1
0
So long as it isn't blow on a bunch of useless "green" technology it sounds like a good idea.

Lets face it, the environmental whack jobs are on a mission to sink pretty much every major infrastructure project they can, and these are the sort of people who voted for Obama. I would think hes gonna have a hell fo a time building any power job that ain't a wind farm, or a power line going to a wind farm.

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Your analysis has some holes in it.

If everyone plugged in their cars at night, we wouldn't need more power production. Every night, turbines at nuclear plants produce mass amounts of energy that we have no way of storing.

Also, FWIW thats not even close to true, the power demadn at night is down considerably, but not enough to even come close to being less then what all the nuclear plants in the USA produce. The plants that go up during the day and down at night are coal and natural gas.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
Originally posted by: BrownTown
Lets face it, the environmental whack jobs are on a mission to sink pretty much every major infrastructure project they can

These are the sort of people who want us all back in the stone age, running naked through the forests eating berries to survive.
 

misle

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
3,371
0
76
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Your analysis has some holes in it.

If everyone plugged in their cars at night, we wouldn't need more power production. Every night, turbines at nuclear plants produce mass amounts of energy that we have no way of storing.

The problem is most people will plug their cars in right when they get home. Go inside, turn on the lights, turn on the heat/AC, open the fridge, run the microwave, turn on the TV, kids will play video games, etc.

5-6 pm is the biggest time for energy consumption. Adding on cars to that will not help.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: misle
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Your analysis has some holes in it.

If everyone plugged in their cars at night, we wouldn't need more power production. Every night, turbines at nuclear plants produce mass amounts of energy that we have no way of storing.

The problem is most people will plug their cars in right when they get home. Go inside, turn on the lights, turn on the heat/AC, open the fridge, run the microwave, turn on the TV, kids will play video games, etc.

5-6 pm is the biggest time for energy consumption. Adding on cars to that will not help.

The power companies (at least Xcel in my area, I'm sure many others) already have technology that signals boxes installed in front of air conditioners and cycles power on and off. During peak times they can turn your A/C on and off which let's them regulate demand. The same could be done for car charging.
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
Originally posted by: Kadarin
Originally posted by: BrownTown
Lets face it, the environmental whack jobs are on a mission to sink pretty much every major infrastructure project they can

These are the sort of people who want us all back in the stone age, running naked through the forests eating berries to survive.

Strawberries and naked chicks? Count me in.

Seriously though, I think an investment in some new nuke plants would be a great thing. Ideally we'd cut power consumption, but I don't think that's realistic.
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
1
0
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
More nuclear power plants sounds good.

well since I work for a company that builds nuclear plants its kinda hard for me to disagree :p
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Why would we need a bunch of nuclear power plants? Aren't we in a recession? Plants are closing. Electrical use is probably going down.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,418
9,611
136
Originally posted by: Gibsons
Seriously though, I think an investment in some new nuke plants would be a great thing. Ideally we'd cut power consumption, but I don't think that's realistic.

How much fissile material do we have in order to think it's nothing to increase our consumption?
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,197
4
76
Originally posted by: marincounty
Why would we need a bunch of nuclear power plants? Aren't we in a recession? Plants are closing. Electrical use is probably going down.

Because our population is growing, which means increased demand. People aren't buying material goods or going on all sorts of trips, but they're still using plenty of electricity. It's also a lot better than coal.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
Originally posted by: marincounty
Why would we need a bunch of nuclear power plants? Aren't we in a recession? Plants are closing. Electrical use is probably going down.

They could replace existing fossil fuel plants.
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
0
0
I've heard a lot of talk about algae fuel. I think the only drawback right now is how to grow the algae efficiently.
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
1
0
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Originally posted by: marincounty
Why would we need a bunch of nuclear power plants? Aren't we in a recession? Plants are closing. Electrical use is probably going down.

They could replace existing fossil fuel plants.

electrical demand doesn't go down...
 

randomlinh

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,846
2
0
linh.wordpress.com
Originally posted by: marincounty
Why would we need a bunch of nuclear power plants? Aren't we in a recession? Plants are closing. Electrical use is probably going down.

umm.. in the short term maybe.. if at all. But in the long term, we're in desperate need of a new power source/means of distribution/infrastructure upgrade. As it stands now, if MD doesn't do any upgrading, we could start seeing some problems pretty damn soon.

I'm not convinced going all out nuclear is the answer, but at least look into where it makes the most sense and push it there.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
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Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: misle
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Your analysis has some holes in it.

If everyone plugged in their cars at night, we wouldn't need more power production. Every night, turbines at nuclear plants produce mass amounts of energy that we have no way of storing.

The problem is most people will plug their cars in right when they get home. Go inside, turn on the lights, turn on the heat/AC, open the fridge, run the microwave, turn on the TV, kids will play video games, etc.

5-6 pm is the biggest time for energy consumption. Adding on cars to that will not help.

The power companies (at least Xcel in my area, I'm sure many others) already have technology that signals boxes installed in front of air conditioners and cycles power on and off. During peak times they can turn your A/C on and off which let's them regulate demand. The same could be done for car charging.

This.

I'm in favor of nuclear plants though, but only if part of the funding goes to reevaluate the mass of government regulations that we don't need anymore.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
It would take ten years to get an approval to build a nuclear power plant, so why bother?

Isnt this the reason we cant drill for oil?

Sounds just like silly democratic reasoning.