Stick a fork in it, Windows Phone is dead.

[WelshBloke]

The problem is really apps, and developers haven't jumped on-board w/ universal apps.

The problem is that the mobile market is mature. No ones seeing any growth really. Which is OK for the established players but it makes it very difficult for someone with a low market share that needs to grow to survive.

I could see the Continuum dock (a la Surface Book dock) being the "next big" thing (along w/ proper developer support for universal apps) that gains traction for Windows Mobile. Think of it like a laptop w/ a dock and a mobile device that you carry everywhere.

Repeating myself but I still dont see the point of this.

I can "carry" all my data around without needing anything physical at all, why do I need a device to do it?
And if I actually need a physical device with keyboard, mouse/trackpad, monitor, etc whats wrong with a laptop?

Continuum seems to "solve the problem" of needing a very low specced PC whilst not having one but having a monitor, keyboard, dock, mouse and desk available.

 

[Nohr]

After using WP8 for 3 years I finally moved to Android in December. The WP8 OS itself is nice enough. It ran great and I really liked the start screen with the live tiles. But the lack of apps was a crutch that I got tired of putting up with.

 

[Denly]

Compared to iOS and android, windows is bloated and slow and is now basically the only system not derived from UNIX which says something imo.

.

I respect your opinions but this is far from true.

 

[SexyK]

After using WP8 for 3 years I finally moved to Android in December. The WP8 OS itself is nice enough. It ran great and I really liked the start screen with the live tiles. But the lack of apps was a crutch that I got tired of putting up with.

This is my exact situation. I'm fully in the MS ecosystem and my last two phone were the 920 and Icon. Really wanted to move on to a 950XL, but after so many years I had to face the fact that it is pointless to keep waiting for some of the big-name apps I need. They aren't coming.

Once we get full - or close to full - Win 10 on a "Surface Phone" (or the ability to side-load Android apps on WP10) I will reevaluate, but for now I had to begrudgingly move to Android.

 

[Commodus]

Windows Phone / Windows 10 Mobile's problem hasn't really been the product so much as the attention paid to it.

Microsoft's perpetual issue is that it always treats mobile as a sideshow to a main attraction, Windows on the desktop -- even now, under the "mobile first" CEO Nadella. It's been too afraid to devote the resources that Windows Phone/Mobile needed to succeed, as if any success in phones would kill the PC. How often have we heard of Microsoft's mobile team being strapped for resources, and unable to implement the features or hardware support that it wants?

Compare that to Apple or Google. Apple was willing to devote whatever it took to make the iPhone a success; it went from a Mac-first company in 2007 to an iPhone-first company within a few years. Google has a huge wing devoted to all things Android, and it increasingly operates on the assumption that you're checking the web on your phone, not your PC. They were willing to rethink the structures of their businesses to go where technology was going... Microsoft keeps hoping that it can pour a bare minimum of cash into mobile and magically get a flourishing business.

 

[Denly]

Long time WP user here and I agree that MS missed the boat unless MS come up with something really big.

Continuum...it is not like I can find a monitor/keyboard and mouse everywhere, what's the point of it?

TV ad, I don't even remember the last time I see an ad on TV and I watch a lot of TV. There are lots of people still don't know MS make a mobile o/s

They pissed off tons when they killed WP7, they should offer $100 to 830, $300 to 950XL trade in everyone with 800/900.

Bing search, try search Continuum on bing or other WP related features on bing. The result are piss poor, I have to go google when I have issue. WTF MS

Killing the camera button is another poor move

They have so many great idea/app but they just can't tie it together, I am starting to think MS hate WP

I said it before and I say it again, MS need to let PC/NB take control of WP when connect. They have 90%+ on desktop/laptop market and they need to use it to their adv

 

[WelshBloke]

...

Compare that to Apple or Google. Apple was willing to devote whatever it took to make the iPhone a success; it went from a Mac-first company in 2007 to an iPhone-first company within a few years. Google has a huge wing devoted to all things Android, and it increasingly operates on the assumption that you're checking the web on your phone, not your PC.

The difference is Microsoft is coming from a dominant position on the desktop.

Google had an advantage of no having to concentrate at all on its desktop market (because they didnt have one) and Apple has always had a small share of the desktop.

Its a bit different to Microsoft gambling its 80% desktop share on increasing its mobile one.

 

[sweenish]

That is even speculation. Intel is not even a stranger to mobile devices, there have been phones there w/ Intel chips. I would love a Surface phone w/ an Intel CPU, but that won't solve anything. The problem is really apps, and developers haven't jumped on-board w/ universal apps. I could see the Continuum dock (a la Surface Book dock) being the "next big" thing (along w/ proper developer support for universal apps) that gains traction for Windows Mobile. Think of it like a laptop w/ a dock and a mobile device that you carry everywhere.

Oh gee, has Intel been in some phones before? Are you not just saying exactly what I said?

An Intel would absolutely solve this, at least in Continuum. As Windows in Continuum wouldn't have to be resigned to Store apps. The kernel is already universal. We just need the architecture. This is the endgame of MS's current strategy. Windows everywhere, and for those that want it, the one device.

I've expressed this elsewhere, but Android is not maturing fast enough for me. My phone (Nexus 5) is just over 2 years old, still has enough raw power to execute just fine, but it's a janky mess often enough that it gets frustrating. New Nexuses ship encrypted, but they still aren't using hardware encryption? And the 5X especially is suffering for it.

So few devs are targeting Marshmallow, it's stupid. And before anyone jumps in on OS distribution, you can target the newest and specify compatibility with earlier versions.

Volume controls still not operating as they should in all situations, the new app permission model not being fully implemented means it might as well not be right now, the default apps page is hidden, security stuff for connecting to enterprise WiFi still not implemented well enough, etc.

One of my iPhone for life cousins is very intrigued by what MS can cook up in the next year or two. Even iPhone sales have flatlined. If MS can actually shake it up with the next must-have feature, there will be an exodus.

 

[quikah]

Bing search, try search Continuum on bing or other WP related features on bing. The result are piss poor, I have to go google when I have issue. WTF MS

Both of them have a ton of links about the Continuum TV show. Search "Continuum phone" give plenty of links on both sites (with a nice info card on Bing with quick steps to set it up). What exactly are you missing on bing?

It is sad that WP never gained traction. IMO it is the best OS. I cannot use iOS, it is WAY too hard to use IMO, mostly due to the lack of a back button. I don't have any particular gripes with android, just sometimes it seems overly complicated, but it works OK for me for the most part. Wish MS would make a live tile launcher sort of thing for android.

 

[maevinj]

Long time WP user here and I agree that MS missed the boat unless MS come up with something really big.

Continuum...it is not like I can find a monitor/keyboard and mouse everywhere, what's the point of it?

TV ad, I don't even remember the last time I see an ad on TV and I watch a lot of TV. There are lots of people still don't know MS make a mobile o/s

They pissed off tons when they killed WP7, they should offer $100 to 830, $300 to 950XL trade in everyone with 800/900.

Bing search, try search Continuum on bing or other WP related features on bing. The result are piss poor, I have to go google when I have issue. WTF MS

Killing the camera button is another poor move

They have so many great idea/app but they just can't tie it together, I am starting to think MS hate WP

I said it before and I say it again, MS need to let PC/NB take control of WP when connect. They have 90%+ on desktop/laptop market and they need to use it to their adv

There is a dedicated camera button on the 950/950XL

 

[tsupersonic]

Oh gee, has Intel been in some phones before? Are you not just saying exactly what I said?

An Intel would absolutely solve this, at least in Continuum. As Windows in Continuum wouldn't have to be resigned to Store apps. The kernel is already universal. We just need the architecture. This is the endgame of MS's current strategy. Windows everywhere, and for those that want it, the one device.

I've expressed this elsewhere, but Android is not maturing fast enough for me. My phone (Nexus 5) is just over 2 years old, still has enough raw power to execute just fine, but it's a janky mess often enough that it gets frustrating. New Nexuses ship encrypted, but they still aren't using hardware encryption? And the 5X especially is suffering for it.

So few devs are targeting Marshmallow, it's stupid. And before anyone jumps in on OS distribution, you can target the newest and specify compatibility with earlier versions.

Volume controls still not operating as they should in all situations, the new app permission model not being fully implemented means it might as well not be right now, the default apps page is hidden, security stuff for connecting to enterprise WiFi still not implemented well enough, etc.

One of my iPhone for life cousins is very intrigued by what MS can cook up in the next year or two. Even iPhone sales have flatlined. If MS can actually shake it up with the next must-have feature, there will be an exodus.

Yeah, we'er saying the same thing, but you want the phones to run full Windows. It'll be a reality when phones have enough horsepower to run actual 3D apps (a la Surface book GPU dock style) and enough horsepower to do video encoding, and some high horsepower activities. I don't think we're at that point yet, hence universal apps.

I think ultimately MS's efforts will pay off and I'm hoping they will be a major player in the mobile market. More competition never hurts Google or Apple.

I don't have any issues with Marshmallow.The release has been super stable, and much better off compared to Lollipop. I'm liking the new volume scheme, new app. permission model is great (compared to what was there). Smartphones have slowed way down in terms of innovation.

 

[Denly]

There is a dedicated camera button on the 950/950XL

And only in the $600+ "flagship", no camera button on the leaked 850 or 750. I know 730 don't have button but my 830 does. It is one of the reason I go from 800 to 830 and not IOS.

 

[Denly]

Both of them have a ton of links about the Continuum TV show. Search "Continuum phone" give plenty of links on both sites (with a nice info card on Bing with quick steps to set it up). What exactly are you missing on bing?

It is sad that WP never gained traction. IMO it is the best OS. I cannot use iOS, it is WAY too hard to use IMO, mostly due to the lack of a back button. I don't have any particular gripes with android, just sometimes it seems overly complicated, but it works OK for me for the most part. Wish MS would make a live tile launcher sort of thing for android.

Can do image from work, search link below. see youself.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=wp+con...=-1&sk=&cvid=2B70D7995A8146D7B91A22E17EDE5836

https://www.google.ca/#q=wp+continuum

 

[Commodus]

The difference is Microsoft is coming from a dominant position on the desktop.

Google had an advantage of no having to concentrate at all on its desktop market (because they didnt have one) and Apple has always had a small share of the desktop.

Its a bit different to Microsoft gambling its 80% desktop share on increasing its mobile one.

I'm not sure that's entirely relevant. If you're running a company, you're not gambling based on your share of the total market -- you're thinking more about its share of your revenue. While the iPod was pretty big for Apple in 2007, the Mac was still its bread and butter. It didn't have a lot to fall back on if the iPhone fell flat.

You're more on point about Google, since Android was more about ensuring that Google's core business (web ads) had room to breathe on mobile; this was the "bad old days" when most smartphones outside of the iPhone were neutered by carriers. Still, it's important to remember that Google was willing to pivot to treat mobile as more important than desktop, and poured tons of resources into developing a full-fledged OS.

 

[quikah]

Can do image from work, search link below. see youself.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=wp+con...=-1&sk=&cvid=2B70D7995A8146D7B91A22E17EDE5836

https://www.google.ca/#q=wp+continuum

When you use ambiguous search terms you should expect the unexpected.

I guess google is able to guess YOUR intentions better than bing is, doesn't make bing bad. *shrug*

 

[desura]

Another problem: they pushed Bing too hard with the phone. There was a dedicated button to bing on there. The search button should have been dedicated to in-app search, or something in the context of the app you're using. Instead, it brings up bing and kicks you out of whatever app you were using.

 

[MarkizSchnitzel]

Another problem: they pushed Bing too hard with the phone. There was a dedicated button to bing on there. The search button should have been dedicated to in-app search, or something in the context of the app you're using. Instead, it brings up bing and kicks you out of whatever app you were using.

Yeah, it worked contextually before, and it was really convenient.
They ruined it afterwards.

Even image search, you can't go to source webpage, it always opens image URL.
There was music identification there, worked pretty good, they killed it.
QR scanner as well. Local scout..

It really became shit.

 

[Denly]

When you use ambiguous search terms you should expect the unexpected.

I guess google is able to guess YOUR intentions better than bing is, doesn't make bing bad. *shrug*

You know what? On my wp8.1 keyboard if I type wp it will auto correct me to WP.
I mostly use bing but MS should do a better job on search related to their main products.

 

[Denly]

Yeah, it worked contextually before, and it was really convenient.
They ruined it afterwards.

Even image search, you can't go to source webpage, it always opens image URL.
There was music identification there, worked pretty good, they killed it.
QR scanner as well. Local scout..

It really became shit.

Music still there.

whoever killed QR and TEXT translator should be shot.

MS Health was great as well and they killed it.

 

[quikah]

There was music identification there, worked pretty good, they killed it.
QR scanner as well.

Music ID is in Cortana. Never noticed the QR scanner.

whoever killed QR and TEXT translator should be shot.

Translator app is still there...

Edit...

Ohh... I know what you are talking about now. Yeah, Bing Vision is neat, I never use it. But kind of dumb they got rid of it in 10. I use the dedicated Translator app for text translation. Replaces the text translation that Bing vision did for the most part.

 

[desura]

Yeah, it worked contextually before, and it was really convenient.
They ruined it afterwards.

Even image search, you can't go to source webpage, it always opens image URL.
There was music identification there, worked pretty good, they killed it.
QR scanner as well. Local scout..

It really became shit.

srsly? Yeah, geez that's a huge mistake.

 

[Denly]

Translator app is still there...

Edit...

Ohh... I know what you are talking about now. Yeah, Bing Vision is neat, I never use it. But kind of dumb they got rid of it in 10. I use the dedicated Translator app for text translation. Replaces the text translation that Bing vision did for the most part.

Yet bing vision, I think that was the name. I used to use it a lot in jap or Korean restaurants to translate manual, you place the camera on it and it will translate the txt. Which translator app to the same?

 

[quikah]

Yet bing vision, I think that was the name. I used to use it a lot in jap or Korean restaurants to translate manual, you place the camera on it and it will translate the txt. Which translator app to the same?

It is called Translator, made by MS. Works the same.

 

[zlejedi]

They should drop ARM phones and go for x86 atoms instead with optimised W10 . Then at least they would have something unique about their system that can't be matched by iOS/Android.

 

[MarkizSchnitzel]

Music still there. whoever killed QR and TEXT translator should be shot.

Well, it seems I was wrong, QR code did remain, I do believe it went missing for a period of time though. This search "app" got thrown around a lot, every version it's different.

But music is not here for me, I'm not from USA. I suppose only americans have this particular need to identify music on the radio.

Music still there.

whoever killed QR and TEXT translator should be shot.

MS Health was great as well and they killed it.

Yeah, i was using that one as well to track my running.
I did grab Runtastic Pro though, which is good enough, so I'm not too mad about that.



What I am very, very frustrated about is that basically everything MS did, was meant to crack USA market (to no avail). And the rest of us, who were actually using WP, got left on the sidelines, like we are not there.

For the life of me, I can not understand why they don't allow Cortana to work worldwide, just choose language independently. I speak english well enough for the type of simple commands I would use. It's not like I'd have philosophical and existential discussions with her.

Also, many small 3rd party KB developers for Android (and iOS now) have my language supported in swype/flow mode, with dictionaries, yes MS, a huge company with huge RD and unmatched localization experience, is not able to deliver Flow KB for us. There are probably ~30 million of people speaking my language (croatian + serbian), so it's not really so meaningless a audience. And WP does actually have meaningful share here, it reached 15% at peak.

It really shows the scope of negligence.