Steve Jobs posts his thoughts on Flash

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D

dwell

pics?
Oct 9, 1999
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http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

I'd say he's right on performance and battery life. Everything else is opinion.

We've had a lot of conduct complaints about this specific thread (and in general, other Apple threads in here lately) so here's a not so gentle reminder for everyone: GG&P is a Technical forum, not a Social forum. We have much higher expectations of your actions in a technical forum, and if you feel the need to flame, troll, name-call, etc, then you will quickly be removed. If you can't make a well-reasoned argument while not attacking others, this isn't the forum for you.

-Thanks
ViRGE
 
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rudeguy

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
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the mouse-over thing never occurred to me. Would Hulu even work without it?
 
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bonkers325

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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Steve brings up many good points about Flash.

In fact, I have FlashBlock installed specifically so my senses don't get bombarded by visually intrusive ads that either blink, flash, dance, pop up, or takes over your browser. Why would I want it on my phone too? :p
 
D

dwell

pics?
Oct 9, 1999
5,185
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I think Flash is being used as more of a political tool than something useful. I don't think anyone wants the browser Flash experience on their mobile device. There is the benefit of porting Flash games to devices quickly, but performance will suck and so will battery life. Flash video is ubiquitous on the Internet, but that's not really a reason to keep the technology alive, is it?
 
S

Slick5150

Diamond Member
Nov 10, 2001
8,760
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I like him arguing that Flash is closed source and therefore bad.

Umm, Steve? Irony is calling for thee.
 
T

TheWart

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2000
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Slick5150 said:
I like him arguing that Flash is closed source and therefore bad.

Umm, Steve? Irony is calling for thee.
Click to expand...

Well, he does differentiate between proprietary systems and open web standards, and it is the latter of which he claims to be advocating.
 
S

Slick5150

Diamond Member
Nov 10, 2001
8,760
3
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TheWart said:
Well, he does differentiate between proprietary systems and open web standards, and it is the latter of which he claims to be advocating.
Click to expand...

Well, in other words, when it supports his point, open source is good, when it doesn't, it's irrelevant.
 
T

TheWart

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2000
5,219
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Slick5150 said:
Well, in other words, when it supports his point, open source is good, when it doesn't, it's irrelevant.
Click to expand...

That doesn't sound a whole lot different than every other company in the tech space. For example, Google and IBM both selectively use OSS when it suits their needs while maintaining a lot of proprietary code/systems as well.

You think a company should be 100% open source or 100% not?
 
S

Slick5150

Diamond Member
Nov 10, 2001
8,760
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TheWart said:
That doesn't sound a whole lot different than every other company in the tech space. For example, Google and IBM both selectively use OSS when it suits their needs while maintaining a lot of proprietary code/systems as well.

You think a company should be 100% open source or 100% not?
Click to expand...

Of course not, but he's vilifying Flash for it's closed source nature while that's exactly what Apple thrives on. I'm certainly not saying you have to be 100% one way or another, but you should also not be a hypocrite about it.
 
T

TheWart

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2000
5,219
1
76
Slick5150 said:
Of course not, but he's vilifying Flash for it's closed source nature while that's exactly what Apple thrives on. I'm certainly not saying you have to be 100% one way or another, but you should also not be a hypocrite about it.
Click to expand...

But what about other companies, like Google, Oracle, IBM, etc, etc that all do the same?
 
gorcorps

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,739
454
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Slick5150 said:
Of course not, but he's vilifying Flash for it's closed source nature while that's exactly what Apple thrives on. I'm certainly not saying you have to be 100% one way or another, but you should also not be a hypocrite about it.
Click to expand...

Read it again... He admits his system is closed too
 
T

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
Moderator
Sep 15, 2004
12,089
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Slick5150 said:
Of course not, but he's vilifying Flash for it's closed source nature while that's exactly what Apple thrives on. I'm certainly not saying you have to be 100% one way or another, but you should also not be a hypocrite about it.
Click to expand...

OS X is based on Unix, and the kernel remains open source IIRC. It is just the stuff that Apple themselves built upon that is closed source. Webkit, the heart of Safari and Mobile Safari was originally KHTML/Konquerer on Linux. Apple got hold of the project and improved and improved and improved and it still remains open source to this day. Anyone can download the Webkit source. I have observed that when Apple uses open source, they tend to keep the project alive and continue to contribute to it. In the event that open source A + closed source B = interesting apple widget, then well, A is still open. Not too different from Google or microsoft. How about we ask google, the paragon of open source, for their search algorithm?
 
MJinZ

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
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bonkers325 said:
Steve brings up many good points about Flash.

In fact, I have FlashBlock installed specifically so my senses don't get bombarded by visually intrusive ads that either blink, flash, dance, pop up, or takes over your browser. Why would I want it on my phone too? :p
Click to expand...

HTML5 can do the same thing. And you won't be able to block it as easily methinks once Flash falls out of favor.
 
EarthwormJim

EarthwormJim

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2003
3,239
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Slick5150 said:
I like him arguing that Flash is closed source and therefore bad.

Umm, Steve? Irony is calling for thee.
Click to expand...

I think his basic argument is that web standards should be open. He emphasized that webkit is open, html 5 is open, javascript, css. All things dealing directly with the web.

The only one that is not is h.264...

He wasn't exactly vilifying Adobe's flash for being closed either (but certainly wasn't supporting it for being closed). He was simply correcting what Adobe has said, that flash is open, when in fact it is the very definition of closed.
 
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D

dwell

pics?
Oct 9, 1999
5,185
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MJinZ said:
HTML5 can do the same thing. And you won't be able to block it as easily methinks once Flash falls out of favor.
Click to expand...

Sure you will. Adblock Plus already blocks any HTML element you want.

For example, that ugly jumplist over there to your left...

<---

...I dont see it thanks to:

Code: 
 anandtech.com#td(class*=page)
 
theeedude

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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So when Flash 10.1 with hardware acceleration is running on RIM, Android, and WebOS, still no Flash for you, i[Phone/Pod/Pad] users. Big bro Steve decided for you :D
 
zerogear

zerogear

Diamond Member
Jun 4, 2000
5,611
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TheStu said:
OS X is based on Unix, and the kernel remains open source IIRC. It is just the stuff that Apple themselves built upon that is closed source. Webkit, the heart of Safari and Mobile Safari was originally KHTML/Konquerer on Linux. Apple got hold of the project and improved and improved and improved and it still remains open source to this day. Anyone can download the Webkit source. I have observed that when Apple uses open source, they tend to keep the project alive and continue to contribute to it. In the event that open source A + closed source B = interesting apple widget, then well, A is still open. Not too different from Google or microsoft. How about we ask google, the paragon of open source, for their search algorithm?
Click to expand...

OS X is based on BSD.
 
Pliablemoose

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
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senseamp said:
So when Flash 10.1 with hardware acceleration is running on RIM, Android, and WebOS, still no Flash for you, i[Phone/Pod/Pad] users. Big bro Steve decided for you :D
Click to expand...

I missed the part where someone is forcing anyone to purchase Apple products...

This is a market driven issue, if Apple is wrong, the market will kick their ass.

That doesn't seem to be the case so far... http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined

& yeah, I know that's a Flash based chart :D
 
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theeedude

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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Pliablemoose

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
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senseamp said:
Sure, the market will decide. Competition will be able to run Flash and Apple won't.
Click to expand...

I don't understand your point.

If Flash is so indispensable, then Apple will take a sales and market-share hit, and be forced to change their stance.

If I know Apple, they have already plotted the scenarios, and I think in the long view, they'll win. Did you install a floppy drive in your last desktop build? Do you have a floppy drive in your laptop?

It's not rocket surgery...
 
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