Stereo - need more power/amps. not enough power

[spidey07]

Need more power. Tired of my amps giving out. one each Aragon 8008BB for left and right and it still isn't enough.

MS Dawn, help. I need 4 channels of 1000 watts each at 1 ohm!!!

Filling a listening room this big is difficult. I was at audio nirvana and the damn amps shut down yet again. Damn you Crystal Method and your hard bass and dynamic range, oh and bless you CM for your hard bass and dynamic range.

Any suggestions on good amps that can meet this?

 

[Rubycon]

That will cost ya!

1 ohm 1kW power is a cinch - a pair of dual stereo amps are common. Four monoblocks better but you will need some coin for that. Most pro amps will have active cooling fans - will these be an annoyance?

 

[Howard]

What speakers?

 

[Goosemaster]

woah.....

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Deaf much?

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
woah.....

I suspect spidey07 doesn't have any neighbors close by. Or they're deaf and don't mind the china rattling off the shelf.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Deaf much?

rather large electrostats. They are brutal on an amplifier. They need a good amp that can double down to 1 ohm. I need the extra power for reserve - a big moment or impact can just drain an amp immediately.

So a good 250 watt should be able to do 1000 at 1 ohm, that's what I need. Plus it is a large open space. I really do need this much power.

 

[Madwand1]

Are you sure the phase of the speaker connections is correct?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Deaf much?

rather large electrostats. They are brutal on an amplifier. They need a good amp that can double down to 1 ohm. I need the extra power for reserve - a big moment or impact can just drain an amp immediately.

So a good 250 watt should be able to do 1000 at 1 ohm, that's what I need. Plus it is a large open space. I really do need this much power.

Alright... I thought I remembered you posting before about how you had some tinnitus already

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Alright... I thought I remembered you posting before about how you had some tinnitus already

I did, I do. It's not for volume, more for dynamic range/difficult speakers that I need it.

I'll still crank it for a single song though and will check with a SPL meter to make sure it isn't too loud.

 

[Viperoni]

Not too many home amp's will do 1ohm.... you'd definetely have to look into PA amps.

Do you need the ability to handle down to 1ohm??

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Alright... I thought I remembered you posting before about how you had some tinnitus already

I did, I do. It's not for volume, more for dynamic range/difficult speakers that I need it.

I'll still crank it for a single song though and will check with a SPL meter to make sure it isn't too loud.

Ok... just be careful dude

 

[Howard]

I knew it. There was definitely no way you were running out of power on conventional speakers, much less high-sensitivity stuff.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Viperoni
Not too many home amp's will do 1ohm.... you'd definetely have to look into PA amps.

Do you need the ability to handle down to 1ohm??

Lowest on the impedance curve is 1.2 ohms I believe, don't know what frequency though.

-edit-
confirmed..
http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=44

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: spidey07

I did, I do. It's not for volume, more for dynamic range/difficult speakers that I need it.

I'll still crank it for a single song though and will check with a SPL meter to make sure it isn't too loud.

Live music sounds live because its dynamic range is completely uncompressed. There are surprisingly good recordings out there that can demonstrate this.

1000W isn't really that much power for driving relatively inefficient loudspeakers in a large room. Consider the basics.

At 83 dB at 1W at the listening position, a 1kW transient will only produce a level of 113 dB. Now this is quite loud but not frighteningly so. Remember we're talking transients. This is why special effects prefer pyro over speakers even with arrays that are 105 dB 1W/5M efficent. You just don't get that flinch.

ES speakers are for imaging and smoothness where dynamic impact is second IME. A good amp certainly can make them sing but it can also make them crackle that WILL give the flinch. Kind of like +10 dB on the digital console. :Q

Of course I'm a musician / actress so I'm biased.

Continuous exposure to average "A" weighted sound levels in excess of 90 decibels is not recommended, however peaks certainly won't hurt you. (within reason - a 158 dB blast of a train horn or .45ACP round requires protection!) This is one of the reasons why I enjoy my Ultimate Ears UE10 pro IEM's so much.

 

[Viperoni]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Viperoni
Not too many home amp's will do 1ohm.... you'd definetely have to look into PA amps.

Do you need the ability to handle down to 1ohm??

Lowest on the impedance curve is 1.2 ohms I believe, don't know what frequency though.

-edit-
confirmed..
http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=44

Thought so.
You'll be fine with an amp that's 2ohm stable.

Also, the speakers spec @ 200 watts power handling.... you might want to keep your amps power output to 500 watts RMS @ ohms.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn
At 83 dB at 1W at the listening position, a 1kW transient will only produce a level of 113 dB. Now this is quite loud but not frighteningly so. Remember we're talking transients. This is why special effects prefer pyro over speakers even with arrays that are 105 dB 1W/5M efficent. You just don't get that flinch.

ES speakers are for imaging and smoothness where dynamic impact is second IME. A good amp certainly can make them sing but it can also make them crackle that WILL give the flinch. Kind of like +10 dB on the digital console. :Q

Well I agree about the dynamic range comment. They do OK and I'm willing to give a little of that up for buttery smooth/tonally accurate.

I had such a good sound going - dynamic, super-fast, smooth, etc. Then amps shut down. grrr. They won't even clip, just get zapped of power. I've been fortunate that the speakers have never sparked/arced. Well maybe just a few times.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Viperoni
Thought so.
You'll be fine with an amp that's 2ohm stable.

Also, the speakers spec @ 200 watts power handling.... you might want to keep your amps power output to 500 watts RMS @ ohms.

I just want something that can double down to 1 ohm. That way I know I'm covered. The woofer is power hungry as well at 12" sealed.

I may be interested in PA gear or digital amplifiers as long as I can try it out first.

 

[Rubycon]

2 ohm stable?

That sounds like motorcar amp terminology.

In the professional field amps are designed with long term hard use in mind. So if the rating is 6.4kW RMS at 0.25 ohm, you can bet it's stable. Takes a stable checking account to buy it too. :laugh:

An amp shutting down isn't good though. Malfunctioning amplifiers can easily send all sorts of nasty downstream to the speakers. Remember they are powered off 120 or 240 vac power.

ES systems are a difficult load often highly reactive. It's most likely not sheer current (or lack of it) that's causing the apparent power losses. Mr. Levinson and Mr. Krell can take care of this with aplomb but their rates are sky high.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn
ES systems are a difficult load often highly reactive. It's most likely not sheer current (or lack of it) that's causing the apparent power losses. Mr. Levinson and Mr. Krell can take care of this with aplomb but their rates are sky high.

Well if you can find me two KSA-300s for cheap I'm all over it.

Just tell me what to get, even if it's PA. I was hoping maybe there are some good amps out there that can do the job without breaking the bank.

 

[Rubycon]

These folks can help you.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn
These folks can help you.

I've "read" a lot of good things about them. Never listened to them though. Any particular recommendation? where to buy?

 

[Rubycon]

They can provide you with a local dealer most likely with a zip code.

You need four channels so these are biamped or do you have a pair for surround? :Q

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn
They can provide you with a local dealer most likely with a zip code.

You need four channels so these are biamped or do you have a pair for surround? :Q

I just like bi-amping, that's all. So a stereo for the left and a stereo amp for the right.

Believe it or not the manual for the speakers is very, very well written.

If you want to provide me a meaty solid state amp for the woofers and a super sweet tube amp that can get the job done for the panels I'll love you even more.

 

[Rubycon]

Bi-Amping is the way to go. Been there, done that. Tri, quad even penta amplified systems are good but things get complicated fast. It's not like the control room already looks like a firing room at NASA. :Q

A strong solid state amp for your bass bins - tightly regulated with lots of current and good damping factor along with a "sweeter" valve amp for the panels. Probably sound the best on the 2OHM tap. There's valve amps with a 1OHM tap but they cost as much as a sportscar per channel.