Stephen Lerner wants to overthrow the government

[Fern]

Stephen Lerner sounds like a certifiable nut. Can't believe Obama overlooked him when selecting Cabinet officials and Czars.

Fern

 

[boomerang]

Stephen Lerner sounds like a certifiable nut. Can't believe Obama overlooked him when selecting Cabinet officials and Czars.

Fern

You know, from time to time I wonder why I continue to hang around here and then a post like this reminds me - it's for the laughs. LOL! :thumbsup:

 

[hal2kilo]

Look whos a Glenn Becky.

Should that be "has a Glen Becky" i.e. woody.

 

[Steeplerot]

A thread of anti-intellectual twits, once again another witchunt using bunk accusations in a published article, and not a damn one of them took a second to read what was written. But carry on with the bullshit outrage.

Dude said noting of the sort btw.

 

[Matt1970]

A thread of anti-intellectual twits, once again another witchunt using bunk accusations in a published article, and not a damn one of them took a second to read what was written. But carry on with the bullshit outrage.

Dude said noting of the sort btw.

Umm, this is a transcript of an actual audio tape rom the "dude" wanna listen to the listen to the tape?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgOEraouhxU&feature=player_embedded

 

[werepossum]

Stephen Lerner sounds like a certifiable nut. Can't believe Obama overlooked him when selecting Cabinet officials and Czars.

Fern

LMAO!

This is straight out of Saul Alinski, you must overburden the system to crash it. Progressives progressively work to achieve what revolutionaries achieve through revolution. I don't see anything illegal about it though.

 

[boomerang]

Umm, this is a transcript of an actual audio tape rom the "dude" wanna listen to the listen to the tape?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgOEraouhxU&feature=player_embedded

He's picking nits on the title of the thread. It's the start of the windup. He starts slow and builds to a shrieking crescendo.

 

[werepossum]

He's picking nits on the title of the thread. It's the start of the windup. He starts slow and builds to a shrieking crescendo.

He has a point, though. Lerner wants to overthrow capitalism itself more than the government.

 

[boomerang]

He has a point, though. Lerner wants to overthrow capitalism itself more than the government.

I do not disagree, my choice of words was not optimal. However, this continual picking at specific words and phrases here to make a point has been, and continues to be, extremely tiring. Normal everyday people understand the point of a post or phrasing and live and let live. Here, it's a crime against humanity and the point is argued to death with no added benefit.

I'd be happy to change the title. If this thread gets out of control it will be changed for me as has been the policy in the past. Although I must say I've noticed less intervention lately and I think it's working out just fine so far.

 

[werepossum]

I do not disagree, my choice of words was not optimal. However, this continual picking at specific words and phrases here to make a point has been, and continues to be, extremely tiring. Normal everyday people understand the point of a post or phrasing and live and let live. Here, it's a crime against humanity and the point is argued to death with no added benefit.

I'd be happy to change the title. If this thread gets out of control it will be changed for me as has been the policy in the past. Although I must say I've noticed less intervention lately and I think it's working out just fine so far.

I do not disagree with the title, or the, um, previous title, or with your post, just acknowledging that Red had a point in semantics. The ultimate goal of the progressive movement is of course to change the government as well as our economic system, even if this particular useful idiot is speaking of destroying our economic system in this speech.

 

[Zebo]

I thought the bankers bailouts removed any moral obligations to pay your debt. Lead by example and all that.

Anywho I have a couple friends that stopped paying one's a pharmacist and makes about 120K a year so it's not like he can't afford it. Living 2 years now rent free. Simple business decision he says like banks do when they walk away.

 

[Zebo]

http://www.businessinsider.com/seiu-union-plan-to-destroy-jpmorgan

This story is getting a fair bit of traction so as I'm wont to do from time to time, I'd thought I'd bring it to the forefront.




He's on tape outlining his plan for this May. He at one point says that he doesn't want to go into too much detail in case there are police in the room.



My questions to the participants here are, is what Mr. Lerner proposes an act of terrorism? Should it be investigated? Will Eric Holder do so?

My answers are:

Yes
Absolutely
No

No - no one will give you anything in life, you gotta take it. If you think labor got 40 hr works weeks and good pay without lots of blood in the streets you'd be wrong.
No - see number 1
Nothing until it upsets apple cart of who put em there. ie he's effective.

 

[boomerang]

I do not disagree with the title, or the, um, previous title, or with your post, just acknowledging that Red had a point in semantics. The ultimate goal of the progressive movement is of course to change the government as well as our economic system, even if this particular useful idiot is speaking of destroying our economic system in this speech.

Woah, my post was not directed at you, but at the way everyone behaves here in general. We're on the same page here. I understand that he had a point and was acknowledging that. Then I elaborated...

 

[Zebo]

He has a point, though. Lerner wants to overthrow capitalism itself more than the government.

We don't have capitalism but crony capitalism. Who gets loans to keep float, who gets access, who get bailouts, who gets contracts, etc. From the very origin money is created down to your local school district it's about juice. I didn't read it that he wanted to destroy capitalism rather having and ownership society rather than a renters society.

 

[Siddhartha]

The only group I know of that has been advocating economic chaos has been the Libertarians. Everyone else has been more concerned about finding or keeping a job, paying their bills, etc.

Seriously who is the OP about and why should I care about what he says?

 

[irwincur]

Does this guy have any clue how much pension money is tied up on 'evil' Wall Street. Add to that the 401K investments made by millions of middle class workers or lines of credit for small business owners.

What a stupid mother fucker. He doesn't want to destroy Wall Street to redistribute the wealth, he wants to just destroy the wealth. Not sure who that will help.

 

[irwincur]

"It would be the new normal that The People, not the rich, own their houses."

You can own your house if you pay for it. Nothing in life is free. If it is, it is probably stolen.

 

[werepossum]

Woah, my post was not directed at you, but at the way everyone behaves here in general. We're on the same page here. I understand that he had a point and was acknowledging that. Then I elaborated...

Understood dude, I was just emphasizing that in acknowledging Red's semantic point I didn't mean criticism of you or your title.

We don't have capitalism but crony capitalism. Who gets loans to keep float, who gets access, who get bailouts, who gets contracts, etc. From the very origin money is created down to your local school district it's about juice. I didn't read it that he wanted to destroy capitalism rather having and ownership society rather than a renters society.

I don't disagree that we have crony capitalism, or that our societal laws need to promote an ownership rather than a renter's society. However the SEIU is all about true worldwide socialism, if not to the point of communism. What progressives in general and the SEIU in particular advocate is not restructuring society to allow a middle class to earn its little pink house, but rather restructuring society to allow a middle class to demand its little pink house be furnished by someone else. I've no desire to lose my freedom in pursuit of the prosperity enjoyed by Cuba or North Korea or the Soviet Union. If I must lose my freedom, I'd prefer to do so like Red China, where at least aggressive capitalism provides wealth creation for society, rather than an SEIU-type of socialism which concentrates on wealth consumption and assumes the wealth will come from a magic cupboard.

 

[Jhhnn]

Lerner's plan is to organize a mass, coordinated "strike" on mortgage, student loan, and local government debt payments--thus bringing the banks to the edge of insolvency and forcing them to renegotiate the terms of the loans. This destabilization and turmoil, Lerner hopes, will also crash the stock market, isolating the banking class and allowing for a transfer of power.

Lerner apparently wants to create a movement from the inevitable. Instead of individuals defaulting one by one to get tossed under the Wall St bus, he suggests that they band together to gain leverage over the debt holders, rent seekers and gatekeepers of the economy. He suggests negotiating from strength and gaining concessions in the process.

When did the monied elite respect anything other than strength? In the current scenario, they'll never collect all the debt owed, but they'll be able to maintain the sham awhile longer. If Lerner's efforts succeed, debt collection might not deteriorate at all but the consequences of that would be more evenly distributed across the population- the financial elite would take a haircut, too.

Heresy, I know, in that bright Libertopian fantasy of post Reagan conceptualization where trickledown goodness will rain down like manna from heaven...

The sad truth is that none of us are safe from the ravages of predatory capitalism other than the truly wealthy, no matter how strong we think we might be. It starts at the bottom, with the working class, and erodes the economic base of the middle and upper middle class, grinding away the foundations of the economy.

 

[bfdd]

Lerner's plan is a good one, I just don't see it being pulled off. The only way to get them to stop what they're doing, is to stop fucking paying them. Stop using their fucking services, stop using them period or kill them. Lerner is taking the civil route imo.

 

[Budmantom]

Sounds like the work of a community organizer named Barry.

 

[Matt1970]

Sounds more like someone pissed off that they didn't get a house, car, boat and a large bank account for free. Nobody made anyone go get a bank loan and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you can't affound a $750,000 house on a $40,000 a year budget.

 

[Jhhnn]

Sounds more like someone pissed off that they didn't get a house, car, boat and a large bank account for free. Nobody made anyone go get a bank loan and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you can't affound a $750,000 house on a $40,000 a year budget.

You apparently didn't talk to any shady mortgage brokers as Dubya's "Ownership Society" was peaking, because they'd have told you differently, just as they did with lots of others. Many people entered the market on the promise of ever increasing prices and the idea that they too could successfully flip a house before the clock ran out on their negative amortization sub prime ARM... nail down a profit for its own sake or one that would allow them to trade down to something they could actually afford. Gambling? for sure, but the downside is the same on a $300K note you can't afford as it is on a $800K note you can't afford, but the upside is a lot bigger.

The real crime was on the other end of it all, with securitizers successfully representing crap as gold to investors while stabbing them in the back with derivatives... It was a setup all around, aided, abetted, exploited and cheered on by the Bush Admin and the pundits of free market self regulated banking.

 

[Steeplerot]

Umm, this is a transcript of an actual audio tape rom the "dude" wanna listen to the listen to the tape?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgOEraouhxU&feature=player_embedded

Already listened, you did not obviously.

 

[Matt1970]

Already listened, you did not obviously.

You just said "Dude said noting of the sort btw" when the audio tape is quite clear. What exactly are you saying is fabricated about what he said?