Steam's Early Access failures?

[Man I Suck]

So only fund the 10%.

Yes, KS and Valve should police titles more aggressively, but someone else falling for a shady pitch doesn't mean you do. That same person probably gave their bank account to a Nigerian prince or bought "enhancement" pills online.

The presence of spam doesn't mean email should not be allowed to exist.

You are still free to fund games that would not be created in the absence of KS and EA. Ignore the shady pitches, ignore the corporate mitigation pitches.

The problem is this whole inability to see the future. Maybe we should consult the crystal ball or the magic 8 ball to tell us which of these titles will get finished, eh?

 

[HeXen]

Wait until it's final release...you know, like we had to back in the old days?

 

[AgentUnknown]

DAYZ is a failure. I have over 200 hours playing it. But the game is broken years later. New developer. Now I want my money back. I stuck it through, but the game still sucks.

 

[Subyman]

So only fund the 10%.

Yes, KS and Valve should police titles more aggressively, but someone else falling for a shady pitch doesn't mean you do. That same person probably gave their bank account to a Nigerian prince or bought "enhancement" pills online.

The presence of spam doesn't mean email should not be allowed to exist.

You are still free to fund games that would not be created in the absence of KS and EA. Ignore the shady pitches, ignore the corporate mitigation pitches.

Completely agree. There are only so many safe guards you can have. If you are disappointed with the system then don't use it. Wait for the game to come out. If you want to throw the devs money for a hope and dream, then its there for those people. Again, EA and Kickstarter are not preorders. You are giving them money to hopefully make the game. If you are spending your tight entertainment budget for EA/KS games then quit immediately. Kickstarter and EA are not for that.

 

[Man I Suck]

Wait until it's final release...you know, like we had to back in the old days?

The problem is that even if YOU do, there are countless mindless sheep who do not who are fuelling this unfinished craze. While you sit there waiting for a complete game to come out, everyone else is ripping through unfinished games one after another.

The rest of us who expect a good finished game sit here dealing with a stark decline in finished original content.

 

[VirtualLarry]

The problem is that even if YOU do, there are countless mindless sheep who do not who are fuelling this unfinished craze. While you sit there waiting for a complete game to come out, everyone else is ripping through unfinished games one after another.

The rest of us who expect a good finished game sit here dealing with a stark decline in finished original content.

This sounds eerily like the early days of "Shareware CDs". Trial versions with only a few levels, but once aggregated onto cheap CDs, people would buy them, and instead of popping for the full version of games that they liked, they would just move on to the next trial version of a game on the CD.

 

[Man I Suck]

This sounds eerily like the early days of "Shareware CDs". Trial versions with only a few levels, but once aggregated onto cheap CDs, people would buy them, and instead of popping for the full version of games that they liked, they would just move on to the next trial version of a game on the CD.

Except that there really WAS a full version of the game to buy and play. The game was finished before it was released.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Wait until it's final release...you know, like we had to back in the old days?

Some games might never be made that could be really good titles. Like the spiritual successor for castlevania that got funded on kickstarter. It works for some games and others seem to just be cash grab attempts. I do t like kickstarter but I did help fund Shenmue 3 because that is one game I never thought had a chance in hell of being made. I get lots of cool stuff when it releases for helping fund it too.

 

[bystander36]

It seems there are a lot of people here, who support both programs that still don't fully get it. Even with corporate backing, most games never see the light of day. The odds of KS or EA games finishing is not likely to be any better. Go in with your eyes open, and know that there is a good chance you will get no game. At least with AE, you get something right up front.

I've only done one EA game because there were lots of reviews on the existing game, and it was from a dev that created a game I liked prior. That was Grim Dawn. It's still not done 1.5 years after I purchased it, but I've got over a 100 hours into it, so I can't complain one way or another.

 

[DaveSimmons]

The problem is that even if YOU do, there are countless mindless sheep who do not who are fuelling this unfinished craze. While you sit there waiting for a complete game to come out, everyone else is ripping through unfinished games one after another.

The rest of us who expect a good finished game sit here dealing with a stark decline in finished original content.

No, you just see more of the failures instead of them all happening out of view, or never existing at all.

But how does that hurt you? EA/KS has resulted in more games being released even with the EA/KS failures.

Hypothetically:

Before EA and KS:

50 games released by corporations, 5 by indies.

You never heard about most of the 20 corporate games that were killed during development, or the 45 indie games that failed.

Post EA:

50 games released by corporations, 15 by indies. 12 of the indie games were EA / KS.

You still don't hear about most of the corporate failures, but now you watch as many EA/KS games fail to complete.

People playing unfinished games only hurts you to the extent that you envy them for getting to play games before you. They're having fun but you're not. But it's fun that didn't exist before EA/KS. Your fun was not reduced, theirs was increased. You can join them if you accept that you'll be paying for a mix of successes and failures.

Or you can play it safe and wait. And enjoy the extra completed games that would never exist without EA/KS.

DAYZ is a failure. I have over 200 hours playing it. But the game is broken years later. New developer. Now I want my money back. I stuck it through, but the game still sucks.

How much did you pay for 200 hours of fun? It sounds like you got your money's worth even if it "failed," and would you really have been happier if you never got to play it at all?

 

[Raduque]

I don't support either method. KS or EA. I wait till games are released to buy them. Then I get upset if they are unfinished.

DAYZ is a failure. I have over 200 hours playing it. But the game is broken years later. New developer. Now I want my money back. I stuck it through, but the game still sucks.

How much did you pay for DayZ? Was it, say $30? You played it for over 200 hours, that's roughly 6 hours of game content and play for every $1. What makes you think you deserve your money back, if you got that many hours of enjoyment out of the game?

Entitlement society at work, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[Man I Suck]

How much did you pay for 200 hours of fun? It sounds like you got your money's worth even if it "failed," and would you really have been happier if you never got to play it at all?

Actually, yes. I don't have 200 hours into DayZ Standalone, not even close, but all of it was BS. I suffered through repeatedly installing it to test it to see if it was fixed yet. That game pissed me off so much with everything broken about it that my life WOULD have been happier had I not wasted the money on it.

 

[Man I Suck]

I don't support either method. KS or EA. I wait till games are released to buy them. Then I get upset if they are unfinished.



How much did you pay for DayZ? Was it, say $30? You played it for over 200 hours, that's roughly 6 hours of game content and play for every $1. What makes you think you deserve your money back, if you got that many hours of enjoyment out of the game?

Entitlement society at work, ladies and gentlemen.

You mean 190 hours of running simulator 3000, 2 hours of actual gameplay, and 8 hours of trying to figure out how to work around bugs or starting over because zombies can fly through walls, punch you through the floor, teleport around, punch you from 10 feet away even though they're not animating so you don't know when to sidestep or dodge, trying to crouch jump while looking down to pick up items that are in plain view but can't be picked up for some strange reason, blah blah blah blah the list is huge.

 

[bystander36]

I have a hard time believing any sane person would spend 190 hours trying to get a game running.

 

[Raduque]

You mean 190 hours of running simulator 3000, 2 hours of actual gameplay, and 8 hours of trying to figure out how to work around bugs or starting over because zombies can fly through walls, punch you through the floor, teleport around, punch you from 10 feet away even though they're not animating so you don't know when to sidestep or dodge, trying to crouch jump while looking down to pick up items that are in plain view but can't be picked up for some strange reason, blah blah blah blah the list is huge.

That's what you get for buying KNOWN UNFINISHED AND BUGGY games with NO GUARANTEE THEY WILL BE FINISHED.

I have zero sympathy for you. None.

Some people just need to touch a hot stove before they know it will burn them.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I have a hard time believing any sane person would spend 190 hours trying to get a game running.

Exactly. Since I don't enjoy playing buggy alpha games, I ignore the alpha / beta releases of games that I fund.

I fund them to give them a chance to exist. I then wait for the real release of the game because I only want to play the final product. Just because I have alpha access doesn't mean I'm forced to use it.

Some people should avoid EA / KS completely, and that's fine too. I do disagree with people wanting to shut down EA / KS because the success rate is not 100%.

 

[Man I Suck]

That's what you get for buying KNOWN UNFINISHED AND BUGGY games with NO GUARANTEE THEY WILL BE FINISHED.

I have zero sympathy for you. None.

Some people just need to touch a hot stove before they know it will burn them.

I'm not asking for sympathy so I don't mind that you don't give a shit.

I learned the hard way a long time ago that these EA games go unfinished more often than not. With the rate at which they are consumed by the rest of the gaming community, I've also learned that more and more companies are learning to take less risk by starting with EA/KS and then not put much effort into it once they've begun making a profit in which case they just move on to the next EA/KS project.

I'm not sure what you're arguing against.

 

[Man I Suck]

I have a hard time believing any sane person would spend 190 hours trying to get a game running.

My post was obviously tongue-in-cheek.

I have about 40 hours into DZS trying to get it working, giving up and uninstalling, waiting for a patch, reinstalling and playing, seeing that it's still broken, uninstalling, waiting for a patch, reinstalling and playing, seeing that it's still broken, uninstalling, waiting for a patch, reinstalling and playing, seeing that it's still broken, uninstalling, etc.

 

[bystander36]

I'm not asking for sympathy so I don't mind that you don't give a shit.

I learned the hard way a long time ago that these EA games go unfinished more often than not. With the rate at which they are consumed by the rest of the gaming community, I've also learned that more and more companies are learning to take less risk by starting with EA/KS and then not put much effort into it once they've begun making a profit in which case they just move on to the next EA/KS project.

I'm not sure what you're arguing against.

That is how all games are done. The majority of all games started fail. Most of which we never knew were even being worked on. Since these KS/AE games are using public funding, we hear about the failures. I guess you just learned about how difficult it is to release a game into the world the hard way.

 

[Man I Suck]

That is how all games are done. The majority of all games started fail. Most of which we never knew were even being worked on. Since these KS/AE games are using public funding, we hear about the failures. I guess you just learned about how difficult it is to release a game into the world the hard way.

Yep, and it's only just now that Steam is willing (read: forced through litigation) to offer people's money back.

There needs to be some form of regulation with this endless EA/KS garbage. If the game isn't released within 12 months of charging customers for access then the early adopters should ALL be eligible for full refunds.

The fallout from that, the extra effort to finish a game and do it on time, would entirely satisfy all of my own personal gripes.

 

[bystander36]

Yep, and it's only just now that Steam is willing (read: forced through litigation) to offer people's money back.

There needs to be some form of regulation with this endless EA/KS garbage. If the game isn't released within 12 months of charging customers for access then the early adopters should ALL be eligible for full refunds.

The fallout from that, the extra effort to finish a game and do it on time, would entirely satisfy all of my own personal gripes.

No, you do not deserve any refund, unless there is fraud/embezzlement. You are backing them. You are giving them a pay check for their time to develop the game. You can't take that money away from them. It's like your employer taking back your salary for the past year because you sucked at your job. There is no real difference. Even if you are fired, you can't lose past salary.

 

[HeXen]

I bet the online only early access games are terrible. I heard in Shark Attack 2 or whatever it's called, there's not even anyone online to play.

The problem is that even if YOU do, there are countless mindless sheep who do not who are fuelling this unfinished craze. While you sit there waiting for a complete game to come out, everyone else is ripping through unfinished games one after another.

The rest of us who expect a good finished game sit here dealing with a stark decline in finished original content.

That's the mindless sheep's problem, not mine. If a game doesn't get finished, then we aren't missing anything.

 

[greenhawk]

People just want to see that their money is doing something.

which is the problem at it's root.

It the "backers" (better word than buyers) do not have the mentallity to understand they are giving a donation (with a possible reward) and not actually buying a product, things would work better (less hassles with "refund demands" or "its broken" comments).

I place the issue mostly at the feet of people that started this whole buying in for beta access as they did not take the responsible path of keeping the terminology along the "dontation path" but instead pushed for more money by swinging/wording the delivery to be more like a share trading where getting in early, before release, was a "sure thing" and even "exclusive club" spin on things.

That being said, I tend to agree that the charging higher than any retail price gets rid of a lot of the "bargain hunters" and complainers, it does also turn people off in terms of marketing (ie: come out with a lot of hype, get people interested, then not deliver for a year). No one is going to be talking about it when it does actually get released as the audience is burnt out already. This I suspect makes for less actual sales at release.

There is no real way to win short of only allowing alpha/beta access to the true diehards (several $100 to access ect). Of course, then that also means only allowing early access to the general public a few weeks or a month before the actual release (Team Fortress and steam ect) but it does not help when after development money.

Some examples of the sales and forever beta of one game I was looking at was "Folk Tale", Early access since 30 may 2013.

One of the ones that did the high starting cost (turned me off after all the hype) was Plantary Annihilation. IIRC beta access was $100 USD.

Of course, going the several $100 early access path might mean not enough money to even make it work while to provide feedback to those people if not enough sign up.

 

[HeXen]

Paranormal. It's been early access since 2012 and has changed very, very little. Haunted House wasn't even early access but it wasn't finished. The developer just said f** it so Valve had to pull it from Steam.
Nexus is another one, wasn't early access but Valve had to pull it because they just up and quit.

So the problem isn't just early access games but perhaps just a potential reality of indie development in general. I guess if you release a game, and there comes a time when no one is buying it, so there is no income and no interest, then I suppose it's logical to just give up.

 

[AgentUnknown]

Dayz has progressively been getting worse with each update. In the beginning it was decent. But 2 years later and it's the same damn thing. No evolution.