Steam on Linux: Return of OpenGL?

[thilanliyan]

Apple stuff works fine.. but its closed system will never work. Dont get me wrong, it may build and overtake windows someday.. but thats more about people trying to be trendy (ipads and Iphones) the WORK related stuff.

Unfortunately people at work like to be trendy too. If you're at a business meeting and the guy in the other company has an iphone...well, the people that don't have one are going to be requesting them too.

My company recently switched all their blackberries to iphones. :\

This trend is going to be with us for a while.

 

[ViRGE]

Looking for APPLE to revive OpenGL is ... well wishfull thinking.. APPLE will not support anything that cant directly fill its pockets. OpenGL is free.. they may take some openGL and call it APPLE GL and licence the crap out of it and make it standard for anything sold on Istore.. but it wont be OpenGL Linux.. not untill it works as easy windows. sorry it just doesnt.. and doubtfully never will.

Well that's just flat-out wrong. Apple is not only one of the major members of the Khronos Group, but they are directly responsible for OpenCL, having created the initial proposal and design specs. There are very few companies that are stronger backers of Khronos than Apple.

 

[3DVagabond]

I've always wondered what would happen if apple sold OSX separately like Windows. What would their market penetration be? I think they could directly compete. At least enough to where Windows specific software would cost the devs too many sales. They'd be forced to develop for open platforms that both supported. That would then open the door for Linux and we might truly have choices.

 

[AnandThenMan]

I wondered for years why Apple never sold OSX as a stand along product, in fact I thought they were stupid not to. But it turns out S. Jobs knew exactly what he was doing, keeping OSX in house allowed him to keep the OS focused to only their hardware and what he wanted to do with it. Basically it kept it from being diluted, and also it spared Apple the support nightmare and malware headaches that Microsoft has had to deal with for so long.

As for Steam on Linux, I truly hope it takes off. I absolutely love the stability and speed of Linux, if that can be translated into gaming sign me up.

 

[3DVagabond]

I no longer question the wisdom of anything Jobs did. I used to, a lot! He proved me wrong though.

I'd still like to see if anyone could provide an alternative to Windows. Apple might be able to pull it off, IMO.

 

[BenSkywalker]

OpenGL doesn't run natively on Windows anymore, it's not included with the default out of box windows drivers (for any cards), so that would create support issues for the masses.

You know, I get so sick of seeing this every time a new version of Windows comes out.

Windows has *never* shipped with OpenGL drivers for a consumer OS. None of them. Not ever. Windows 8 is not approaching the realm of anything new with this. Every time MS releases a new OS people bring up the doom of OpenGL because of this, OpenGL is working its' best to kill itself, no need for MS to get involved.

Well that's just flat-out wrong. Apple is not only one of the major members of the Khronos Group, but they are directly responsible for OpenCL, having created the initial proposal and design specs.

Apple is coming close to RAMBUS in terms of their reputation. I don't think their participation on any standards board is going to comfort anyone right now. They are currently in numerous legal battles over their patents on black rectangles.

I've been keeping up with OpenGL since before it existed(OpenGL is a spin off of IrisGL). In theory it was great, in practice it wasn't. Too much fighting/posturing to make it a truly viable long term solution. DirectX has its' own draw backs with MS playing favorites depending on their mood, but the difference between DX and OpenGL is that DX has someone willing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to keep it progressing. Proprietary extensions were a god send back in the days of dealing with the anchor around the industry's neck, 3Dfx, but today the advances are all in the finer nuances in code structuring more then very basic rasterization features that one company is hell bent on stopping.

 

[BFG10K]

Actually incorrect, GL has extensions which allow features way before DX ever gets to dream about them. So no DX doesn't drive GL, it's the other way around.

It's not the other way around at all; OpenGL doesn't drive anything. DirectX moves in tandem with IHVs so the timing is pretty close between new architectures and a new DirectX version.

OpenGL extensions don't really drive anything, they're just a means for the IHV to expose functionality before they become part of the OpenGL spec. A lot of that hardware functionality has already been exposed through (and exists because of) DirectX.

I'm not sure the memory bandwidth would be a problem with DDR4.

Memory bandwidth will always be a problem. You’re always going to have slot-based shared memory (motherboard) competing against hard-wired dedicated memory (GPU).

 

[Anarchist420]

Memory bandwidth will always be a problem. You’re always going to have slot-based shared memory (motherboard) competing against hard-wired dedicated memory (GPU).

I thought that GDDR5 memory was on the same PCB as the GPU, but was not actually hardwired into the GPU. I could be mistaken though.

Also, while the memory would be shared, more could always be added.

 

[Mars999]

It's not the other way around at all; OpenGL doesn't drive anything. DirectX moves in tandem with IHVs so the timing is pretty close between new architectures and a new DirectX version.

OpenGL extensions don't really drive anything, they're just a means for the IHV to expose functionality before they become part of the OpenGL spec. A lot of that hardware functionality has already been exposed through (and exists because of) DirectX.

Spreading incorrect info needs to stop. The point is GL has access to the more advanced features of a GPU than DX will ahead of time, as you HAVE to wait for MS to get off it's ass to put those features in DX. I hope you been coding for over 12years like I have in DX and GL to have a clue what you are talking about... and if so just we are at neg/pos ends of the topic.

Just agree to disagree. Again waste of time typing in here about this flame war crap.

 

[notty22]

Ouya ready to revitalise open-source gaming after $8.5m fundraising haul

Don't know if users of this gadget will end up on Steam or not ? Input ?

 

[BlockheadBrown]

Ouya ready to revitalise open-source gaming after $8.5m fundraising haul

Don't know if users of this gadget will end up on Steam or not ? Input ?

Similar to Steam, it runs it's own store (based off Android though) and offers software through it. All offerings will have at least some playable content. They've signed up with several companies, including OnLive. I was going to be a supporter, but my son really wants the Wii U. As a result, I'll wait out the Ouya, see how it progresses and then go from there. I'd like to support it though. You can pre-order them at ouya.tv.

 

[OVerLoRDI]

I'm sure many have said this, but gaming is the only thing that is holding me to windows. Well, that and familiarity. All my Linux experiences have been caffeine fueled nights at a and prompt hoping that the nth guide I found on the Internet works with my distro, library versions, drivers, etc.

 

[Ferzerp]

Actually incorrect, GL has extensions which allow features way before DX ever gets to dream about them. So no DX doesn't drive GL, it's the other way around.

Did you step in to a time machine and join us from the year 2000?

 

[Olikan]

the return of OGL actually might be alot closer then we thought...

valve just beeing awesome...

Yes, the way the Source Engine is hitting on OpenGL right now is through a non-deferring, locally-optimizing [COLOR=#234865 !important][FONT=inherit !important][COLOR=#234865 ! important][FONT=inherit ! important]abstraction [/FONT][COLOR=#234865 ! important][FONT=inherit ! important]layer[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] to basically convert their longstanding Direct3D calls into OpenGL. However, it's not the same way that Wine does Direct3D to OpenGL conversion. The Source Engine targets a D3D9-like API with extensions that translates GL calls dynamically. This also works for Shader Model 2.0b with Shader Model 3.0 support coming soon. Valve's implementation is nearly a 1:1 mapping between D3D and GL concepts.

full article...

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTE1NzE

 

[Obsoleet]

Spreading incorrect info needs to stop. The point is GL has access to the more advanced features of a GPU than DX will ahead of time, as you HAVE to wait for MS to get off it's ass to put those features in DX. I hope you been coding for over 12years like I have in DX and GL to have a clue what you are talking about... and if so just we are at neg/pos ends of the topic.

Just agree to disagree. Again waste of time typing in here about this flame war crap.

That's very interesting to hear from someone who codes DX/OGL.

the return of OGL actually might be alot closer then we thought...

valve just beeing awesome...



full article...

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTE1NzE

Now that is amazing. I thought it was clear that OGL was going to make a comeback (why I made this thread), but it looks like there's more anti-DirectX moves on the way.

http://alienbabeltech.com/

One thing I'd like to do is thank AlienBabelTech for posting some reviews with OGL benchmarks, those are getting increasingly harder to find and even sites like this one don't offer any. I think TomsHardware might but I haven't checked recently.

Regardless I think sites that don't show ANY OGL benchmark is disingenuous and shilling for MS and/or Nvidia. Because AMD does so much better in that regard.

Thank you apoppin.
http://alienbabeltech.com/abt//viewtopic.php?t=24517

 

[BFG10K]

One thing I'd like to do is thank AlienBabelTech for posting some reviews with OGL benchmarks, those are getting increasingly harder to find and even sites like this one don't offer any. I think TomsHardware might but I haven't checked recently.

Actually you can thank me for that - ABT is using my Wolfenstein benchmark, and I showed them how to benchmark the game too.