Steam Machines are being announced

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jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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#76
As I said, I could see Steam OS for an ultra budget gaming only build it yourself machine, but that is about it.
If anything, the vast majority of people here at least only really use their high powered computers for gaming. That's a lot of energy being wasted surfing, media consumption, etc... on a high powered desktop. Something like Bay Trail for most tasks along with a don't-call-it-a-console PC (which would only be turned on when gaming) would make more sense. SteamOS then makes sense in theory since it would be more friendly to get in and out of games.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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#77
That is one way to look at it I guess. Personally, I have only one PC and do everything on it: gaming, work tasks using office, online banking, netflix, etc. I do have a Bay Trail tablet, but wouldn't think of trying to use it for anything but checking e-mail and light web surfing. I dont have a laptop though (except my work one), and of course a decent laptop would do all those things well enough.

The other thing I just thought of, is if you are running Steam OS, can you play games from Origin and Ubisoft, since they dont use Steam anymore?
 

erunion

Senior member
Jan 20, 2013
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#78
The other thing I just thought of, is if you are running Steam OS, can you play games from Origin and Ubisoft, since they dont use Steam anymore?
Not that I know of. Plus, you can only play games that run on Linux. Its definitely a limited library. But this is just the beginning, you have to build the platform before developers will support it.

Any windows PC with steam supports the same big picture mode that steamOS uses. A windows HTPC with Steam big picture would be a better product, but like I said Valve is doing this for the long term.
 

Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
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#79
The number who need precisely MSOffice won't be large in this context :)
(You pretty well need to be working precisely with big word documents from work or some such context.).

The reasons to not use Linux in general are mostly rather well founded to do with the pain of setting it all up etc. These things should hopefully take a lot of the 'fun' out of things, but it'll take work.

For instance, if they want any traction at all, they'd better have a good system for dealing with keeping the graphics drivers fully up to date! It isn't prioritised in standard Linux distributions so the supported versions can be quite a while behind.
 
Mar 27, 2009
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#81
The reasons to not use Linux in general are mostly rather well founded to do with the pain of setting it all up etc. These things should hopefully take a lot of the 'fun' out of things, but it'll take work.
Mint is really easy to set-up (unlike Ubuntu a person can get a version of Mint with all the codecs already installed). The only thing I needed to do was was add the proprietary Nvidia driver. Fortunately, Mint has a driver manager (that Ubuntu doesn't have) that makes this as easy as clicking on the driver and rebooting.

P.S. For anyone contemplating on experimenting with Linux. I suggest using the universal usb installer at PendriveLinux.com. This will allow a person to install whatever linux they have downloaded to their Windows computer onto a usb stick. The usb stick can be used to install Linux on another computer (Linux can also be run directly from the usb stick and even saves can be made on the stick if a file size for persistent changes was selected in step 4 of the universal usb installer)
 
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Mar 27, 2009
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#82
For many people in these forums I think having a Steam box (for streaming only) like the "Steam Link" would probably make the most sense (assuming latency is not an issue).

But for folks whose primary Windows computer is very weak and/or can't be upgraded to play games very well (eg, lower end or older laptop, AIO, etc), it might make sense to have a Steam Box that plays games natively. This Steam Box, depending on price, will compete with both older (PS3, Xbox 360) and newer consoles (PS4, Xbox One). It will also have to compete with the cheaper Windows Pre-builts (both new and used) that can handle a video card (or happen to be an APU).

One method of obtaining a SteamBox beyond buying a new one or repurposing a former Windows XP Pre-built (mentioned earlier in the thread) would be to build one from the ground up. Just thinking out loud, for a person with a laptop upgrading the 2.5" HDD to 2.5" SSD would at least give them some storage for the build. Then they would have to find some desktop RAM, CPU, motherboard, Video card, case and PSU. In some cases these can come from a person with left over hardware from a prior upgrade. In other cases it could be hardware from a sale priced bundle (eg, G3258/uATX motherboard bundle).
 
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Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
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#83
Mint in general is just very nice and easy, yes.

Graphics drivers easy just so long as driver manager the version in the driver manager is actually up to date enough to do your graphics card.

Unfortunately - well actually logically for what Mint is trying to do - they don't try and push bleeding edge drivers. So that driver can end up relatively old. Lagging by months seems relatively normal.

If that isn't modern enough for your graphics card then you've got some 'fun' due :( Not impossible but really not something to inflict on the mass market as so easy to destroy your set up.

SteamOS will of course very likely prioritise having a fully up to date driver automatically available!
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
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#84
I never cared for many of Linux's alternative apps.
 
Apr 27, 2000
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#85
was add the proprietary Nvidia driver. Fortunately, Mint has a driver manager (that Ubuntu doesn't have) that makes this as easy as clicking on the driver and rebooting.
Actually, Ubuntu distros have had that feature for awhile, hidden away in Synaptic package manager. There's a proprietary driver tab you can access that shows you the available proprietary drivers for your hardware maintained by the Ubuntu repo people. Oftentimes, it's an older driver.

Graphics drivers easy just so long as driver manager the version in the driver manager is actually up to date enough to do your graphics card.

Unfortunately - well actually logically for what Mint is trying to do - they don't try and push bleeding edge drivers. So that driver can end up relatively old. Lagging by months seems relatively normal.
It is. Mint's gonna tap into the same repos as other Ubuntu distros for proprietary drivers. I think Ubuntu is still on 14.9 for AMD cards and I-don't-know-what for Nvidia cards. The plus side is that installation is painless and works more often than not, at least for Nvidia cards anyway. Using 14.9 from the Ubuntu repos does some fun things like make you uninstall Wine. Really.

Of course, 14.12 straight from AMD does the same thing if you use their .deb packages.
 
Mar 27, 2009
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#86
Doing some research for low end console here is what I have come up so far at Gamestop:

http://www.gamestop.com/browse/xbox-360/systems?nav=1385-c4

This deal @ $99.99 for Gamestop Premium reburbished Xbox 360, refurbished wireless controller, refurbished 60GB external hard drive and used copy of Lego Lord of the Rings stands out the most IMO:

http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-360/consoles/xbox-360-60gb-lego-lord-of-the-rings-value-bundle/117280



That is a pretty decent price for something with a game controller.

Then, of course, at the high end we have Xbox One systems for $349.99 (comes with controller, 500GB Hard drive and Assassin's Creed Unity and Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag):

http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-one/co...sins-creed-unity-bundle/117548#productDetails



So that is some competition Valve will have to contend with at both the low and high end for their Steam Boxes.

P.S. According to the following, Xbox live will also be built into Windows 10:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/windows-10
 
Mar 27, 2009
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#87
Here is a hypothetical DIY Steam Box (Mini-ITX cube form factor) I put together:

Coolermaster Elite 110 case ($39.99 plus $2.99 shipping, but regularly goes on sale for $29.99 AR free shipping at Newegg)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119299



Corsair CX430 ($19.99 AR free shipping. This is the usual sale price at Newegg)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139026



Pentium G3258 (currently $69.99, but drops to as low as $54.99 when on sale):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-374-_-Product



Asrock H81M-ITX ($59.99 with $5.39 shipping, allows Pentium G3258 to be overclocked via multiplier)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157451



4GB Crucial DDR3 1600 Memory ($28.99 free shipping):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...87&ignorebbr=1



Western Digital Blue 1TB 3.5" HDD ($54.99 free shipping, usually $49.99 when on sale. Has been as low as $39.99 free shipping)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...39&ignorebbr=1



MSI GT 740 1GB GDDR5 ($54.99 AR free shipping):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127804



At current prices this works out to $337.31 (which includes shipping).

If a person waited for the usual sales to kick in such as the Elite 110 for $29.99 free shipping (After Rebate) the total price would be $305 or below (after rebates).

Throw in a controller and I think this comes out to somewhere around the price of the Xbox One package. It does lack the two free games, but does come with a larger 1TB 3.5" HDD vs. Xbox One's 500GB 2.5" HDD.
 
Mar 27, 2009
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#88
Aug 10, 2002
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#89
In the short term, nothing. But steamOS is necessary to the future of PC gaming. Valve is single handedly attempting to build a Linux gaming platform to free PC gaming from dependence on microsoft/windows.

Its no secret that Microsoft has abandoned PC gaming. And the several recent attempts they've made to monetize/influence PC gaming have been terrible. Games for Windows Live was worse for PC gaming then if they had simply done nothing.

Maybe Microsoft will never end legacy support for PC gaming and we'll just continue on with the status quo. But valve has a back up plan if Microsoft tries to force developers onto its app store.
Because DirectX is nothing.
And Valve aren't being altruistic, they are trying to secure their 30% of most games revenue stream that they have become comfortable with, they don't want the Windows store to start taking their money from them. That's what Valve cares about.
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
4,749
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#90
Because DirectX is nothing.
And Valve aren't being altruistic, they are trying to secure their 30% of most games revenue stream that they have become comfortable with, they don't want the Windows store to start taking their money from them. That's what Valve cares about.
is it really 30% on average!?
what is the source of this information? I always heard people saying the steam tax was much lower than the MS/Sony tax for the consoles.
 
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Mar 27, 2009
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#91
Regarding additional DIY Steam Box competition beyond what I mentioned here and here for the consoles mentioned in post #86, I think Valve (or someone else) needs to make a sleek "console look" case with riser (and possibly power supply) available to Micro-ATX DIYers and here is one strong reason why:

Unlike Windows Pre-built desktops, the Windows license we as DIYers typically use (the retail one) is not tied to the motherboard. Therefore whenever a DIYer does an upgrade that Retail license moves to the new hardware and the old hardware becomes essentially orphaned from Microsoft. In the case of a frequent upgrader this older hardware (typically Micro-ATX or ATX) can actually be some really nice hardware.

Therefore what I think we need is a Slim case (with Riser to accommodate full size Video cards) appropriate to a living room environment that can not only accommodate Mini-ITX, but at least a Micro-ATX board as well. This, not only for older hardware, but for value priced new hardware (such as the G3258/uATX motherboard bundles).

Since Mini-ITX and Micro-ATX both have the position of the PCIe x16 slot in common*, making the riser of the case compatible with both form factors would not be a problem.

With that mentioned, there would even be a way to make a slim case with riser (for ATX) compatible with the PCIe x 16 slot of Mini-ITX and Micro-ATX via a riser extension:



*On DIY Mini-ITX and Micro-ATX, the PCIe x16 slot is usually position in the first expansion bay. On DIY ATX, the PCIe x 16 slot is usally positioned in the second expansion bay.
 
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HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,768
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#92
I already have an official Steambox...at least it'll be marketed with Valve's stamp once SteamOS releases anyway.

 

Thala

Senior member
Nov 12, 2014
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#93
Unlike Windows Pre-built desktops, the Windows license we as DIYers typically use (the retail one) is not tied to the motherboard. Therefore whenever a DIYer does an upgrade that Retail license moves to the new hardware and the old hardware becomes essentially orphaned from Microsoft.
That would be pointless, would'nt it? You would need to acquire a separate Windows license in order to run all the Steam library. So the preferred option would be the device is shipping with a Windows license.
 

erunion

Senior member
Jan 20, 2013
768
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#94
Because DirectX is nothing.
And Valve aren't being altruistic, they are trying to secure their 30% of most games revenue stream that they have become comfortable with, they don't want the Windows store to start taking their money from them. That's what Valve cares about.
I never said I believe Valve is being altruistic.

Its estimated that 3 out of 4 PC games are sold on steam. PC has become essentially a Valve platform. But its a platform that Valve doesn't actually control, because it exists within Microsoft IP.

That being said, just because something makes money doesn't make it bad. Remember, Valve started out as a developer, they built steam because it was the platform they wanted to use themselves.

If Microsoft forced developers onto its app store, it would be bad for valve obviously. But I think it would be bad for gamers and developers too, given Microsoft's recent history with PC gaming.

Microsoft made the wrong choices when it launched Xbox, and we've been living with the consequences of competing interests since then.
 
Feb 8, 2004
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#95
I never said I believe Valve is being altruistic.

Its estimated that 3 out of 4 PC games are sold on steam. PC has become essentially a Valve platform. But its a platform that Valve doesn't actually control, because it exists within Microsoft IP.

That being said, just because something makes money doesn't make it bad. Remember, Valve started out as a developer, they built steam because it was the platform they wanted to use themselves.

If Microsoft forced developers onto its app store, it would be bad for valve obviously. But I think it would be bad for gamers and developers too, given Microsoft's recent history with PC gaming.

Microsoft made the wrong choices when it launched Xbox, and we've been living with the consequences of competing interests since then.
Agreed, valve have done a lot for PC gaming, microsoft have done the bare minimum, sometimes they even directly hurt PC gaming with garbage like GFWL. They are incredibly slow to react to anything and thats all they ever do... react to what other companies do, left to their own devices things would likely stagnate or get worse over time. DX12 looks great and all but its just a reaction to mantle/vulkan.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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#96
Without DX there probably wouldnt even be a Steam, or it would be a shadow of itself selling linux and open gl games.

I am not fan of what microsoft has done recently to PC gaming, but I am also old enough to remember how they supported it at one point, and without DX, PC gaming could well not even exist as we know it.
 
Mar 27, 2009
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#97
Unlike Windows Pre-built desktops, the Windows license we as DIYers typically use (the retail one) is not tied to the motherboard. Therefore whenever a DIYer does an upgrade that Retail license moves to the new hardware and the old hardware becomes essentially orphaned from Microsoft.
That would be pointless, would'nt it? You would need to acquire a separate Windows license in order to run all the Steam library. So the preferred option would be the device is shipping with a Windows license.
Yes, a pre-built SFF (with Windows license) computer would have the advantage of playing the entire Steam Library. The major advantage I could see for DIY hardware would be if a full size video card could be installed. Of course, to do this with DIY hardware (using SFF form factor) would require a new slim enclosure with riser.
 
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Dec 30, 2004
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#98
this really seems like a bad idea. Valve needs to make the machines themselves, and there needs to be 3 tiers. All this differentiation is going to ruin everything.

I also think Intel needs to pull out of the <$300 market. Give AMD some breathing room.

We're all going to die if they don't
 

erunion

Senior member
Jan 20, 2013
768
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#99
Without DX there probably wouldnt even be a Steam, or it would be a shadow of itself selling linux and open gl games.

I am not fan of what microsoft has done recently to PC gaming, but I am also old enough to remember how they supported it at one point, and without DX, PC gaming could well not even exist as we know it.
I agree.

The library problem begs the question: Why does steamOS even exist? That's the question I was trying to answer.

But Valve started Steam with just its first party games and grew it into platform. All of Valves games run on SteamOS, they are basically starting the process again. I wonder if SteamOS might have a currently unannounced killer app available at launch, involving the number 3. I imagine SteamOS is the driving factor for offering source2 engine for free, it supports OpenGL.

I like using Windows, I'd be happy to keep the status quo of running steam in windows.
In 2015 now that MS is backpedaling from win8, its looking more likely than it did two years ago. Yet MS is now talking about wanting to add Xbox live support to PC games, so we'll see.
 
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RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
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I agree.

The library problem begs the question: Why does steamOS even exist? That's the question I was trying to answer.

But Valve started Steam with just its first party games and grew it into platform. All of Valves games run on SteamOS, they are basically starting the process again. I wonder if SteamOS might have a currently unannounced killer app available at launch, involving the number 3. I imagine SteamOS is the driving factor for offering source2 engine for free, it supports OpenGL.

I like using Windows, I'd be happy to keep the status quo of running steam in windows.
In 2015 now that MS is backpedaling from win8, its looking more likely than it did two years ago. Yet MS is now talking about wanting to add Xbox live support to PC games, so we'll see.
I don't see HL3 as being enough to start the steam boxes off. You'll piss off people who don't want to buy a new PC or figure out dual booting. I'd certainly pass on HL3 at that point. Beyond caring about it, anyway.
 

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