States that Can't Pay for themselves

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: OFFascist

Originally posted by: sandorski
This really isn't about Taxes, Tax Revenue short falls, or sudden Increases in Spending. It's about the Loss of what was a stable source of Funding that has suddenly dried up. That occured because of the sudden lack of Credit in the Economy.

I'd hardly consider "credit" to be a "source of funding."

Credit is something you need to pay back sooner or later.

It's been avaliable as a reliable source of Funding for decades. The Credit crunch is what's forcing those State Governments to seek Federal Funding.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: techs
Bullshit!
If states like California, New York, New Jersey, etc weren't sending 100's of BILLIONS every year to the dirt poor, low wage recipient states they would have huge surpluses.
-snip-

I'm pretty states don't send other states money.

Can you link up some proof for that assertion?

TIA

Fern

he's talking about where federal dollars are spent vs where they are collected

Info on dollars paid vs received.

As far as NY goes, we're saddled with NYC. We've been paying for them forever.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: techs
Bullshit!
If states like California, New York, New Jersey, etc weren't sending 100's of BILLIONS every year to the dirt poor, low wage recipient states they would have huge surpluses.
-snip-

I'm pretty states don't send other states money.

Can you link up some proof for that assertion?

TIA

Fern

he's talking about where federal dollars are spent vs where they are collected

Info on dollars paid vs received.

As far as NY goes, we're saddled with NYC. We've been paying for them forever.

New York state only got back .79 cents for every dollar they gave the Feds in 2005 (according to your link)
Utah (for Elias824) your good old Red state got back 1.07 for every dollar they gave the Feds.
So basically you should be kissing New Yorks *ss. Without them, or California, etc, you probably wouldn't have one job offer.

And of course, its not in the link, but New York City has been paying for the rest of New York state for 150 years. In fact, the State Supreme Court ruled that the State had to give New York its fair share of revenue for its schools.

Oh yeah, gotta love Alaska and the myth they would be so much better off as their own country. They get back an astounding 1.84 dollars for every dollar they pay. Bridges to nowhere add up. I guess Alaska just doesn't tax them oil companies as much as they lead you to believe.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

NYC hasn't been paying a thing to us here in the Rochester area. The state wide average contribution towards the local education burden was 60% when this decision was handed down. NYC paid about 46% for its own citizens. We were forced to pay to make up the difference.

Personally, I'd be glad to see a 51st state. NYC

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: techs
Bullshit!
If states like California, New York, New Jersey, etc weren't sending 100's of BILLIONS every year to the dirt poor, low wage recipient states they would have huge surpluses.

Good thing they are free in this nation and can spend their money where it is needed. Oh wait...

 

[351Cleveland]

don't look at us Hoosiers... We got a nice fat surplus. Go Gov Daniels!!!

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
don't look at us Hoosiers... We got a nice fat surplus. Go Gov Daniels!!!

according to HR's spreadsheet, Indiana is a leech

 

[LunarRay]

Geepers, it seems to me that there exists and interdependent relationship among the various states that ought to encourage and foster a more concerned attitude rather than a 'screw them' one.

State Government are no more prudent than the Federal Government ... Economists tend to have learned from the past what ought to work or not work to remedy issues but yet to accept that folks are folks and tend to do what they FEEL comfortable doing regardless.


You can't have a "Let them sink" philosophy for any state or city. People live there! I recall when NYC was in crisis or Chrysler... Let em sink was not the way to go and no one lost money... It makes sense to keep people at work cuz they buy stuff and pay taxes and People are what make the Economy grow... Although I'm accused of not being a real person... Economists are people too... None are ever 100% right but when their position is bought off and implemented it ought to be done in total.. not a bit from here or there all smushed together and termed... " A Fix "...

Who cares what the "National Debt" is... if Disinflation occurs... and leads to Deflation as the waiting progresses... cuz us folks wait for the better deal... we'll all be fishing and farming... maybe even surfing..

 

[LunarRay]

As an aside, it would be interesting to know what the basis of the inflows and outflows of Federal monies is.

Corporations registered in say Delaware but doing business in all 50 states may pay tax but how is it apportioned to each state? And some states have little in the way of Federal Projects or Contracts... How are the bombs we drop all over counted... vs roads we build... and use ... It is fine to debt finance LT assets creation with LT debt... and all that but how is the interest allocated...

 

[351Cleveland]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
don't look at us Hoosiers... We got a nice fat surplus. Go Gov Daniels!!!

according to HR's spreadsheet, Indiana is a leech

oh well. I guess we just have better congressmen.

Edit: only in 2005 did Indiana draw more than it gave. I wonder what I'd was since then.

Don't get me wrong... I am all for lower federal taxes and an end to redistribution of wealth via federal means

 

[StageLeft]

You know the problem with NY is that we now have the highest property taxes in the country, or at least top three. We are raped for taxes and government still cannot break even. It is tax drunk in the extreme. A silver lining here is that we may see swathes of gov workers canned and they may move private. When the economy perks up again we can hope that gov's inexorable expansion will begin behind its regular curve. I am hopeful that patterson can cut fat where needed. So far I'm cautiousky optimistic of him vs the last gov who was spending his time deep in vag instead of being all that he could be.

 

[brandonbull]

How come you never hear that states can't pay welfare, state legislators, or governors? Somehow the firemen, police, and teachers are the first not to get paid. Just another example how governments are legal crime syndicates. "No money? We'll yous guys get no protection then."

 

[RU482]

Yeah, lets bail out the states that created the real estate crisis!!

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: loki8481
my only real beef is with welfare states that suck up money from other states without putting any effort into making money themselves (ie: no state income tax, no sales tax, etc)

stupid Alaska

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: loki8481
my only real beef is with welfare states that suck up money from other states without putting any effort into making money themselves (ie: no state income tax, no sales tax, etc)

stupid Alaska

srsly. there are few states I hate more. I'm half tempted to donate to the separatist movement.

something just seems absurd about being able to leach off other states without doing anything to contribute to your own well-being.

 

[LunarRay]

States didn't create the real estate crisis... Seems to me that in order to enable folks to buy homes that were increasing in price beyond the market's ability to afford the lenders with the help of Regulations (or the absence of) created the means... Then the folks borrowed on their equity to buy all manner of stuff - good Americans helping the economy grow - and all of a sudden and for some strange reason the ability to afford dried up (I assume wages and the like stayed constant or near so) and with that the values of the real property started to drop back to affordability... but... but... then the ugly Lines of equity credit still had to be paid... dang.. no wonder folks bailed out when their home's value was substantially less than they owed... Walk away... that's the answer... the false economic growth... well sorta false...

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
States didn't create the real estate crisis... Seems to me that in order to enable folks to buy homes that were increasing in price beyond the market's ability to afford the lenders with the help of Regulations (or the absence of) created the means... Then the folks borrowed on their equity to buy all manner of stuff - good Americans helping the economy grow - and all of a sudden and for some strange reason the ability to afford dried up (I assume wages and the like stayed constant or near so) and with that the values of the real property started to drop back to affordability... but... but... then the ugly Lines of equity credit still had to be paid... dang.. no wonder folks bailed out when their home's value was substantially less than they owed... Walk away... that's the answer... the false economic growth... well sorta false...

another part of the picture as far as states go, though, is property taxes.

taxes were high at the height of the bubble and states may have made projections based on that income, but as housing prices crashed and property is reassessed, property tax income takes a gigantic hit.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: LunarRay
States didn't create the real estate crisis... Seems to me that in order to enable folks to buy homes that were increasing in price beyond the market's ability to afford the lenders with the help of Regulations (or the absence of) created the means... Then the folks borrowed on their equity to buy all manner of stuff - good Americans helping the economy grow - and all of a sudden and for some strange reason the ability to afford dried up (I assume wages and the like stayed constant or near so) and with that the values of the real property started to drop back to affordability... but... but... then the ugly Lines of equity credit still had to be paid... dang.. no wonder folks bailed out when their home's value was substantially less than they owed... Walk away... that's the answer... the false economic growth... well sorta false...

another part of the picture as far as states go, though, is property taxes.

taxes were high at the height of the bubble and states may have made projections based on that income, but as housing prices crashed and property is reassessed, property tax income takes a gigantic hit.

That it does and so does Sales Tax which comprise the bulk of County Government funds at least in Ca. This frenzy feeds on itself until either the toxin or anti toxin wins... Income taxes hehehehe .. What are we at.. 6.2 or so Unemployed .. I think 10% by end of Q1 is possible... that is a double hit... no money in from taxes and money out for welfare or unemployment.. The States have it much harder to exist in a crisis.. I'm surprised the numbers are not further apart .. 22b that is not much... next year... well that could be an interesting year..

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: loki8481
my only real beef is with welfare states that suck up money from other states without putting any effort into making money themselves (ie: no state income tax, no sales tax, etc)

stupid Alaska

srsly. there are few states I hate more. I'm half tempted to donate to the separatist movement.

something just seems absurd about being able to leach off other states without doing anything to contribute to your own well-being.

I'm guessing they say the same thing about those 48 states locking up ANWR.

 

[Vic]

States affected by the housing bubble are having budgetary troubles? That's unpossible! Must be ANWR!

 

[Mavtek3100]

Yes, just goes to show you that without Texas, the rest of the US would be a 3rd world country. Damn I wish we could secede.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Yes, just goes to show you that without Texas, the rest of the US would be a 3rd world country. Damn I wish we could secede.

:laugh:

 

[WhipperSnapper]

California should try to argue that part of its problem is caused by the federal government since it's on the front lines of the illegal alien invasion.

 

[brencat]

Well, here in NJ, the problem is 'home rule' and duplicative municipal services. Home rule I believe goes back to the 1700s and as a result, this state has way more local govt than it needs. They also do really dumb things like hold school board elections and other related activities at different times of the year which raises the cost of these services. Add to that multiple superintendants for a given town, township, and borough and you've got a bloated infrastructure in dire need of cutting.

The property taxes in this state are criminal. Paring services won't cut it. They need to take a chainsaw to govt in this state and merge counties. No relief until home rule disappears.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: techs
Bullshit!
If states like California, New York, New Jersey, etc weren't sending 100's of BILLIONS every year to the dirt poor, low wage recipient states they would have huge surpluses.

What the...

How are CA, NY, NJ, etc sending hundreds of billions to any other states? It's not like people somehow live in Michigan but work in CA and somehow don't pay taxes there. CA isn't sending any money to other states and I have no idea where you got such a ludicrous idea.

EDIT: Ahh, he's talking about federal taxes. A specious argument at best.

ZV