States seek Windows Source Code

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brxndxn

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2001
8,475
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that would be so awesome to have all sorts of versions of windows to pick from...
 
Zenmervolt

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
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91
MS needs to cave in somewhat. I think that the best thing for MS to do is to agree to sell alternate versions of Windows (for example, a version without IE), but I think that MS should charge $25-$50 MORE for the stripped version. That way the states back off, and MS still keeps selling the integrated version of Windows.

ZV
 
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rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
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MS made the claim in trial that they can't unseperate the browser and windows. The states don't accept the objectivity of MS's programmers and want to review the code themselves. If the court orders it handed over and the states do find that it would be really easy to remove the browser than MS purjured themselves in front of the court. They should be VERY worried by this.
 
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jfall

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 2000
5,975
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Who the hell really cares though? Whats the difference if Windows comes with Internet Explorer or not? your not forced to use it, it's not like MS made it so that no other web browsers would work.
 
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b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
81
Wow. This is getting hot and heavy...

So is this good or bad for hardware manufacturers like Compaq?




<< Who the hell really cares though? Whats the difference if Windows comes with Internet Explorer or not? your not forced to use it, it's not like MS made it so that no other web browsers would work. >>



Exactly...and furthermore, it's so convenient opening up web pages and my own file folders in the same windows...
 
iamwiz82

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
81
when was the last time one of you tried to use Windows without IE?

Its a pain in the butt!!! No quick launch bar, no explorer viewed as web page, no previews, no address bar in windows explorer.

To see if you like this, go get NT4, uninstall IE 3 and see how you like it.
 
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yakko

Lifer
Apr 18, 2000
25,455
2
0
They need to just quit wasting money harassing Microsoft.




<< Microsoft did not immediately file a response, but spokesman Jim Desler said the company is wary of sharing its source code because the states may leak it to competitors. >>

May is an understatement. That code would be all over the web within a day.
 
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jobberd

Banned
Mar 30, 2001
2,057
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Microsoft can do plenty of things to make the source code practically impossible to read through (if it isn't like that already)
 
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gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
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that's true, if i were microsoft, i'd agree, but only on the condition that they look at the code at a controlled location, ie, on a computer without internet access, cameras, etc.
 
Rallispec

Rallispec

Lifer
Jul 26, 2001
12,375
10
81


<< when was the last time one of you tried to use Windows without IE?

Its a pain in the butt!!! No quick launch bar, no explorer viewed as web page, no previews, no address bar in windows explorer.

To see if you like this, go get NT4, uninstall IE 3 and see how you like it. >>



iamwhiz is right--- explorer is a pretty integral part of windows.
 
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rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
0
As far as MS altering the code, the states can petition for access to the data on the backups that were stored when the case was started (that code wouldn't be altered).

Oh I agree the browser should be there, but I also totally believe MS has used their monoply in OS's to crush other sides of the software market. In particular I remember the shift to windows killed DRDOS with a bogus error message, the shift to windows95 killed wordperfect because they made sure all the wordperfect products were broken on the final code. This netted them the Windows monoply from their DOS monoply, and netted them their dominance in Office products (their big money maker). Don't get me wrong, word and excel are great products, but making sure the competition crashes on your OS is just dirty pool.

MS should be forced to publish all interface's to their OS's publically. This would include SMB, the stupid Kerbos modifcations they did for active directory, NTFS file specifications, etc. With the ability to create products that can interoperate MS won't be able to leverage their monopoly into other areas. Don't forget the court has already ruled they are a monopoly and that they have abused that monoply, this the remedy phase where we determine how to prevent them from doing it again.
 
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BlackOmen

Senior member
Aug 23, 2001
526
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<< Who the hell really cares though? Whats the difference if Windows comes with Internet Explorer or not? your not forced to use it, it's not like MS made it so that no other web browsers would work. >>

History lesson: This goes back to the whole Netscape vs. IE situation where Microsoft would not bundle Netscape with the OS, and they would harass OEM's who tried to include Netscape. People didn't have choice and they used what they had on their machine already -- IE. In the antitrust suit, Microsoft used their source code as their defense in this matter, saying that IE was an integral part of the OS and could not be removed.

This raised the issue of evidence. Up until now this defense has been some "secret evidence" that only Microsoft has access to. If it is going to be their defense, then it should be verified by the court.
 
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gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
History lesson: This goes back to the whole Netscape vs. IE situation where Microsoft would not bundle Netscape with the OS, and they would harass OEM's who tried to include Netscape. People didn't have choice and they used what they had on their machine already -- IE. In the antitrust suit, Microsoft used their source code as their defense in this matter, saying that IE was an integral part of the OS and could not be removed.

maybe you need to look up the word "choice" in the dictionary. people have always had the choice. maybe they weren't coddled with it, but they've had the choice. say you buy a ford, and it comes with firestone tires. are you saying that you don't have a choice to use different tires?
 
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Nemesis77

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
7,329
0
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<< maybe you need to look up the word "choice" in the dictionary. people have always had the choice. maybe they weren't coddled with it, but they've had the choice. say you buy a ford, and it comes with firestone tires. are you saying that you don't have a choice to use different tires? >>



We have went through this over and over again... MS did these things to kill Netscape:

1. They bundled IE with Windows (giving their browser access to 90+% of the market
2. The blackmailed OEMs (IBM, Compaq etc.) NOT to ship Netscape. If they shipped Netscape, MS would increase their license-costs.

In short: they saturated the market with their product, and they prevented their competitor access to the distribution-channel. They could do that because they had:

1. Monopoly on the desktop
2. Monopoly of selling OS'es to OEM's
 
Zenmervolt

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
44
91
<<MS's lobbying-efforts. Besides pumping DC full of money, MS hired several law-firms with anti-trust expertise and assigned them to work on unrelated things, so that they couldn't be used against MS in antitrust-cases.>>

Uh, prior the case MS had no lobby in Washington. However, Netscape and AOL had HUGE lobbies in Washington. MS had no choice but to fight fire with fire. I'll agree that there was a lot of corporate involvement in this case, but it was mainly by the plaintiffs, not MS.

ZV

EDIT: Also, the source of that report is rather well known to be harshly Anti-MS, so it's far from an impartial source.
 
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BlackOmen

Senior member
Aug 23, 2001
526
0
0
<< maybe you need to look up the word "choice" in the dictionary. people have always had the choice. maybe they weren't coddled with it, but they've had the choice. say you buy a ford, and it comes with firestone tires. are you saying that you don't have a choice to use different tires? >>

Well, first I'll direct you to Nemesis77's response. Read it? Good.

The points that Nemesis77 brings up happened about the time that Grandma and Grandpa, Joe Trailerpark, and a lot of other people were buying their first computers (about 1995-96). Not only was the choice not given, people didn't even know they had a choice. They used what they had and thought that was it.

So out yourself at a ford dealer two years ago driving off in your shiny new suv. Would you buy tires for the hell of it? You had the choice to......... ;)
 
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