State Sovereignty Movement Quietly Growing

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: LS8

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
the idea of states and states right is antiquated and needs to be done away with.

Thank you for that lovely insight. When do you plan on banning free speech?

what the hell does 'states rights' have to do with free speech?

It was supposed to be an integral part of how our government was set up. See amendment 10. States' interests are represented in addition to peoples' interests in the federal government (see bicameral legislature and/or electoral college). If you ignore the states and go solely on population, it may be more "democratic", but large swaths of the country will disagree with the concentrated areas of high population. That is a recipe for revolution. Look at our history, both under the original Articles of Confederation while the Constitution was being debated and the years before/after the Civil War. I assure you, states' rights is VERY important. It helps protect the less densely populated areas from tyranny of the concentrated majority.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Andrew1990
Yay, a civil war! Of course I would never fight my fellow countrymen for the corrupt Washington DC politicians. I would join the rebels!

Anyway, I do believe that the Fed. Government is taking way too much power than it should have. I think the states should hold more power than the Feds.

If that were the case imagine how much it'd suck in places like Utah and Oklahoma!

Yeah it really sucks here with our 3.4% unemployment and low cost of living.

 

[GenHoth]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Being from the Northeast, i'm sick of giving more of my money to lazy good for nothing red states in the south than i receive.

Stop voting for more taxes then. Seems pretty simple to me

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Andrew1990
Yay, a civil war! Of course I would never fight my fellow countrymen for the corrupt Washington DC politicians. I would join the rebels!

Anyway, I do believe that the Fed. Government is taking way too much power than it should have. I think the states should hold more power than the Feds.

If that were the case imagine how much it'd suck in places like Utah and Oklahoma!

Yeah it really sucks here with our 3.4% unemployment and low cost of living.

Time for a reverse immigration back to Oklahoma,The Wraith of Grapes so to speak.:laugh:

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Being from the Northeast, i'm sick of giving more of my money to lazy good for nothing red states in the south than i receive.

Don't force people's wages and cost of living through the roof and maybe you won't pay so much to the Fed.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: GenHoth

Originally posted by: Phokus
Being from the Northeast, i'm sick of giving more of my money to lazy good for nothing red states in the south than i receive.

Stop voting for more taxes then. Seems pretty simple to me

Why are you being so simple as to asusme he votes for more taxes?

Originally posted by: brandonbull
Don't force people's wages and cost of living through the roof and maybe you won't pay so much to the Fed.

What are you suggesting Phokus has done to force people's wages and cost of living through the roof?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Andrew1990
Yay, a civil war! Of course I would never fight my fellow countrymen for the corrupt Washington DC politicians. I would join the rebels!

Anyway, I do believe that the Fed. Government is taking way too much power than it should have. I think the states should hold more power than the Feds.

If that were the case imagine how much it'd suck in places like Utah and Oklahoma!

Yeah it really sucks here with our 3.4% unemployment and low cost of living.

Low cost of living in the US frequently means: nobody wants to live there.

 

[ericlp]

This is nothing new...

Hawaii has been trying to do this for the last 20 or so years. I don't think this is going to happen any time soon. Maybe I might see marijuana legal but, I doubt this.


Low cost of living in the US frequently means: nobody can get a job. Fixed for ya.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: LS8

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
the idea of states and states right is antiquated and needs to be done away with.

Thank you for that lovely insight. When do you plan on banning free speech?

what the hell does 'states rights' have to do with free speech?

It was supposed to be an integral part of how our government was set up. See amendment 10. States' interests are represented in addition to peoples' interests in the federal government (see bicameral legislature and/or electoral college). If you ignore the states and go solely on population, it may be more "democratic", but large swaths of the country will disagree with the concentrated areas of high population. That is a recipe for revolution. Look at our history, both under the original Articles of Confederation while the Constitution was being debated and the years before/after the Civil War. I assure you, states' rights is VERY important. It helps protect the less densely populated areas from tyranny of the concentrated majority.

your right.



land should vote.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Andrew1990
Yay, a civil war! Of course I would never fight my fellow countrymen for the corrupt Washington DC politicians. I would join the rebels!

Anyway, I do believe that the Fed. Government is taking way too much power than it should have. I think the states should hold more power than the Feds.

If that were the case imagine how much it'd suck in places like Utah and Oklahoma!

Yeah it really sucks here with our 3.4% unemployment and low cost of living.

states like ND, SD, wyoming and utah have low unemployment rates because noone wants to live there.

 

[Vic]

LOL! States that feed at the trough of federal money demanding sovereignty! And a dog might bite the hand that feeds it!

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Ummm... last I checked there were independence movements in all 50 states. Every once in a while they get a bill in front of the legislature that is pretty much voted down by a margin of 100%.

I'm surprised that Alaska wasn't on the OP's list.

Nothing new here...

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Evan
Will never happen in anyone's lifetime barring massive nuclear war/poverty/aliens.

Yeah it's a pipe dream by people who spend too much time reading about 18th century history and want to see it done all over again. I have no interest in discussing further. Will not happen.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: rchiu
heh, if the financial crisis doesn't knock the US off the sole super power throne, this division among the states will do the trick for sure. A world dominated by China and US got no say in any international politics will be very interesting and I hope all these states interested only in themselves will be happy with the outcome.

china is decades away from being a dominant power

China as it is today is enough to dominate the USA divided by 50 in terms of military, economy, trade and International policy.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
If they can refuse to pay federal taxes, that could be a boon for their individual liberties and freedom.

Until the state income tax is increased 5-10 times to replace federal subsidies for schools, roads, police, etc. and citizens find out they can't get college loans, collect Social Security or use medicare coverage.

No votes in the house or senate either, and anyone travelling out of state needs a passport.

Fortunately for the citizens of these states, it's not going to happen even after Obama's secret Kenyan Muslim masters are flown into the country to take control.

I'm fine with my state taxes increasing by that much. I get to deduct my state taxes from my Federal taxes, so it's a zero-sum game. Not to mention that if the federal subsidies went away, the federal government should be spending less, and hence should need less money from taxpayers.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: rchiu
heh, if the financial crisis doesn't knock the US off the sole super power throne, this division among the states will do the trick for sure. A world dominated by China and US got no say in any international politics will be very interesting and I hope all these states interested only in themselves will be happy with the outcome.

china is decades away from being a dominant power

China as it is today is enough to dominate the USA divided by 50 in terms of military, economy, trade and International policy.

OK, and what if China has all its provinces divided up? This exercise is a brainless one; the US is about as far from civil war as any country consisting of states or provinces can be. States rights has been an issue for centuries and as time goes on the states blur further and further and people care even less (not including the few who dress in camo each weekend and practice their shooting for when the state secedes). The culture of the US is exceptionally homogenous compared to other nations and the quality of life across the states is also very even. The US is, by any historical standard, exceptionally stable.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: rchiu
heh, if the financial crisis doesn't knock the US off the sole super power throne, this division among the states will do the trick for sure. A world dominated by China and US got no say in any international politics will be very interesting and I hope all these states interested only in themselves will be happy with the outcome.

china is decades away from being a dominant power

China as it is today is enough to dominate the USA divided by 50 in terms of military, economy, trade and International policy.

OK, and what if China has all its provinces divided up? This exercise is a brainless one; the US is about as far from civil war as any country consisting of states or provinces can be. States rights has been an issue for centuries and as time goes on the states blur further and further and people care even less (not including the few who dress in camo each weekend and practice their shooting for when the state secedes). The culture of the US is exceptionally homogenous compared to other nations and the quality of life across the states is also very even. The US is, by any historical standard, exceptionally stable.

We all bitch about the federal govmint in all its folly. But, seriously, look at the state governors and and legislatures out there. Is there a single one out there today that anyone would look to lead as a sovereign power?

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: rchiu
heh, if the financial crisis doesn't knock the US off the sole super power throne, this division among the states will do the trick for sure. A world dominated by China and US got no say in any international politics will be very interesting and I hope all these states interested only in themselves will be happy with the outcome.

china is decades away from being a dominant power

China as it is today is enough to dominate the USA divided by 50 in terms of military, economy, trade and International policy.

No state is going to secede. They're claiming the powers granted to them by the 10th amendment.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

That one has been ignored for a long time.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: LS8

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
the idea of states and states right is antiquated and needs to be done away with.

Thank you for that lovely insight. When do you plan on banning free speech?

what the hell does 'states rights' have to do with free speech?

It was supposed to be an integral part of how our government was set up. See amendment 10. States' interests are represented in addition to peoples' interests in the federal government (see bicameral legislature and/or electoral college). If you ignore the states and go solely on population, it may be more "democratic", but large swaths of the country will disagree with the concentrated areas of high population. That is a recipe for revolution. Look at our history, both under the original Articles of Confederation while the Constitution was being debated and the years before/after the Civil War. I assure you, states' rights is VERY important. It helps protect the less densely populated areas from tyranny of the concentrated majority.

your right.

land should vote.

A farcical way of putting it, but yes. Prior to the direct election of senators that pretty much was the case. Still is when it comes to representation, which is the way it should be. It is easy to ignore large geographical swaths of common interest in a system based purely on population. This compromise has worked relatively well over the generations.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: rchiu
heh, if the financial crisis doesn't knock the US off the sole super power throne, this division among the states will do the trick for sure. A world dominated by China and US got no say in any international politics will be very interesting and I hope all these states interested only in themselves will be happy with the outcome.

china is decades away from being a dominant power

China as it is today is enough to dominate the USA divided by 50 in terms of military, economy, trade and International policy.

OK, and what if China has all its provinces divided up? This exercise is a brainless one; the US is about as far from civil war as any country consisting of states or provinces can be. States rights has been an issue for centuries and as time goes on the states blur further and further and people care even less (not including the few who dress in camo each weekend and practice their shooting for when the state secedes). The culture of the US is exceptionally homogenous compared to other nations and the quality of life across the states is also very even. The US is, by any historical standard, exceptionally stable.

Not disagreeing with you. Just wanna point out how ignorant state sovereignty supporters are and the kind of risk they bring to America if their idea is accepted.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: rchiu
heh, if the financial crisis doesn't knock the US off the sole super power throne, this division among the states will do the trick for sure. A world dominated by China and US got no say in any international politics will be very interesting and I hope all these states interested only in themselves will be happy with the outcome.

china is decades away from being a dominant power

China as it is today is enough to dominate the USA divided by 50 in terms of military, economy, trade and International policy.

OK, and what if China has all its provinces divided up? This exercise is a brainless one; the US is about as far from civil war as any country consisting of states or provinces can be. States rights has been an issue for centuries and as time goes on the states blur further and further and people care even less (not including the few who dress in camo each weekend and practice their shooting for when the state secedes). The culture of the US is exceptionally homogenous compared to other nations and the quality of life across the states is also very even. The US is, by any historical standard, exceptionally stable.

Not disagreeing with you. Just wanna point out how ignorant state sovereignty supporters are and the kind of risk they bring to America if their idea is accepted.

Nobody (yet) is advocating for the disintegration of the federal government. States' rights operate just fine within a federal system. Reasserting them in a meaningful way won't cause that type of scenario. Heck, a more proper division of duties/authority may even strengthen the US.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Man its about time the states pulled there heads out of their asses. Maybe just maybe Abe. Will be seen for what he really was. I can see cival war coming. But this time it will pit 2 differant types of people. Rich Vs. the rest. I am betting on the rest this time . The fed is going down .

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: ironwing
Maybe they can cut a deal. Arizona can be made exempt from federal mandates but in turn gives up all federal funding. The state would wither in a week. The nutjobs in Phoenix forget that Arizona is one of the states that gets back more from the feds than it pays in.

This.

A state has every right not to comply will Federal mandates. Invoking those rights does have consequences - primarily the loss of Federal funds.

Originally posted by: Socio

However if they give up federal funding it would be a two way street and the State would get the income tax and other federal taxes from its citizens and private businesses that went to the Feds instead and probably be better off financially.

Sorry. It doesn't work that way. Individual citizens and corporations still maintain their Federal tax responsibilities and liabilities.

Now I'm sure you see how stoopid this is ...

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Andrew1990
Yay, a civil war! Of course I would never fight my fellow countrymen for the corrupt Washington DC politicians. I would join the rebels!

Anyway, I do believe that the Fed. Government is taking way too much power than it should have. I think the states should hold more power than the Feds.

If that were the case imagine how much it'd suck in places like Utah and Oklahoma!

Yeah it really sucks here with our 3.4% unemployment and low cost of living.

states like ND, SD, wyoming and utah have low unemployment rates because noone wants to live there.

I don't know about the Dakotas and Wyoming but Utah is nice. Wtf are you talking about?

 

[kylebisme]

He is talking about a matter of perspective.