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State run health care fails in Tennessee

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
from

HillaryCare in Tennessee
The disaster that might have been for the entire country.

Monday, December 6, 2004 12:01 a.m. EST

We think it was Justice Brandeis who said the states should be laboratories for reform. Regarding health care, Tennessee tried a decade ago and the price is now coming due. Hillary Rodham Clinton should call her pollster if she plans on carrying the state in 2008.

In 1994, Tennessee passed what was then a very hot New Democrat idea--call it government managed care--a version of the reform the former first lady was also pitching nationwide. TennCare promised the impossible dream of politicians everywhere: Lower health-care costs while covering more of the "uninsured." They got the impossible, all right. After 10 years of mismanagement and lawsuits, TennCare now eats up one-third of the state's entire budget and is growing fast. Governor Phil Bredesen, a Democrat, is preparing to pull the plug and return the state to the less lunatic subsidies of Medicaid.





The TennCare concept was for the state to operate like an HMO, providing health insurance to those who needed it and paying the premiums for those who couldn't afford it. The idea was even sold as a cost savings because it would provide "managed care" (volume discounts, preventative care, etc.). TennCare opened enrollment to hundreds of thousands of people who did not qualify for Medicaid, even to some six-figure earners. Costs quickly exploded, and despite attempts to tighten eligibility rules the program still covers 1.3 million of the state's 5.8 million people.
The skyrocketing costs led previous Governor Don Sundquist, the Republican who had inherited the program, to try to impose a state income tax. His efforts failed, fortunately, but in 2002 Mr. Bredesen was elected promising to cut TennCare's costs.

That, too, has been impossible. Left-wing legal activists have sued the state with impunity to underwrite the cost of nearly unlimited care. A Nashville non-profit called the Tennessee Justice Center has hamstrung reforms for years by suing to enforce a series of consent decrees, some of which predate TennCare.

Prescription drug costs alone increased 23% last year, as there are effectively no limits on the number or types of drugs the system will pay for. If a doctor prescribes aspirin, TennCare pays for it. Ditto for antacids for heartburn and other over-the-counter products. If TennCare denies a claim for a drug or any other type of care, an appeal can be filed for next to nothing. Fighting each appeal costs the state as much as $1,600 in legal fees. With 10,000 appeals filed every month, it's often easier and cheaper to pay a claim, regardless of the merits.

TennCare is now in worse shape than it was a decade ago. Three of the 11 privately run Managed Care Organizations that insured TennCare patients and administered the program have fallen into receivership. Amid the legal wrangling, Blue Cross Blue Shield all but pulled out of the program. Today the state has assumed all the insurance risk and pays most of the premiums.





Mr. Bredesen has proposed numerous reforms to reduce costs by limiting care, and the legislature overwhelmingly endorsed them earlier this year. But they sit in limbo while the Governor negotiates with the Tennessee Justice Center to end its lawsuits. With the talks at an impasse, Mr. Bredesen has instructed state officials to start thinking about dismantling TennCare. "It makes no sense for one facet of our responsibilities--health care--to be able to come to the table first and eat and drink all it wants, and then if there is anything left over, we then can consider our other responsibilities," he told the Tennessee School Board Association recently.
Good for Mr. Bredesen for recognizing that the entitlement mentality inevitably leads to fiscal perdition. Has he told Mrs. Clinton, not to mention certain Republicans in Washington?

Opinion Journal
 
I agree. Government managed healt care via private health care orginazation is a disaster. Private health care orgs are way too inefficient and have too much administrative costs associated with them to work. The entire health care system should be socialized.
 
Is there anything the government has ever been able to manage, well?

And, BTW, us TN'ans are now paying 9.25% sales tax. 🙁
 
Originally posted by: bamacre
Is there anything the government has ever been able to manage, well?

And, BTW, us TN'ans are now paying 9.25% sales tax. 🙁

But you pay no income tax.

Ky: 6 % income tax and 6% sales tax.

 
maybe we can try the rwal thing instead of this crap. And if you can pay for all that with only 1/3 of a 9% sales tax.... wtf are you complaining about?
 
Key word being TN. If you're going to claim universal / nationalized healthcare doesn't work-- at least define the term "doesn't work." Most other western countries have it and I think their citizens would prefer it to our system.
 
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: bamacre
Is there anything the government has ever been able to manage, well?

And, BTW, us TN'ans are now paying 9.25% sales tax. 🙁

But you pay no income tax.

Ky: 6 % income tax and 6% sales tax.

I thought it was the Republican's wet dream to replace income taxes with sales taxes. 😀
 
Also, how much is TN spending on healthcare relative to other states? 30% of state budget going to healthcare seems pretty reasonable.
They need to add cost controls and deductables, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
The problem with healthcare is unless you throw away guaranteed emergency care, and start turning dying people away from ER's if they can't pay, sooner or later you will pay for their healthcare one way or another, and maybe a lot more if you wait till they are really sick. Whether you pay it with taxes, or increased insurance premiums, is the only choice.
 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Key word being TN. If you're going to claim universal / nationalized healthcare doesn't work-- at least define the term "doesn't work." Most other western countries have it and I think their citizens would prefer it to our system.

Thats why i said State run, not Federal run
 
The question begs to be asked - what is going to happen when normal lower-middle class ppl and upper middle class ppl can't afford their health insurance ? A nation uninsured?
 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Also, how much is TN spending on healthcare relative to other states? 30% of state budget going to healthcare seems pretty reasonable.
They need to add cost controls and deductables, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
The problem with healthcare is unless you throw away guaranteed emergency care, and start turning dying people away from ER's if they can't pay, sooner or later you will pay for their healthcare one way or another, and maybe a lot more if you wait till they are really sick. Whether you pay it with taxes, or increased insurance premiums, is the only choice.

The State tried to add cost controls and copays/deductibles, etc. in an attempt to save the program. However, the State was sued by a non profit healthcare advocate group. Thats why the governer is threatening to pull Tenncare and revert to medicaid. Tenncare has become a run away monster and because of the lawsuits the State government can not reign it in.
 
Originally posted by: episodic
The question begs to be asked - what is going to happen when normal lower-middle class ppl and upper middle class ppl can't afford their health insurance ? A nation uninsured?
Wouldn't happen, the insurers would never rachet it up that far. There's no profit in having no customers.
Prescription drug costs alone increased 23% last year, as there are effectively no limits on the number or types of drugs the system will pay for. If a doctor prescribes aspirin, TennCare pays for it. Ditto for antacids for heartburn and other over-the-counter products. If TennCare denies a claim for a drug or any other type of care, an appeal can be filed for next to nothing. Fighting each appeal costs the state as much as $1,600 in legal fees. With 10,000 appeals filed every month, it's often easier and cheaper to pay a claim, regardless of the merits.
One would think that fixing these issues would go a long way, but I suppose that if the peopel who originally touted TennCare have changed their tune that it goes beyond that.
 
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: episodic
The question begs to be asked - what is going to happen when normal lower-middle class ppl and upper middle class ppl can't afford their health insurance ? A nation uninsured?
Wouldn't happen, the insurers would never rachet it up that far. There's no profit in having no customers.

The question is where is the equilibrium line where ratcheting the cost will produce diminishing profit, and what is the percentage of uninsured at equilibrium. We haven't reached that point yet, since the costs and number of uninsured keeps going up.
 
When people want government run healthcare I just think of the following quote:

That's the medical future for all of us, if government takes over medical care. The last thing we need is a government-run medical system with the "compassion of the IRS, the efficiency of the Post Office, at Pentagon pricing."
 
Originally posted by: overclock
When people want government run healthcare I just think of the following quote:

That's the medical future for all of us, if government takes over medical care. The last thing we need is a government-run medical system with the "compassion of the IRS, the efficiency of the Post Office, at Pentagon pricing."

Perhaps you should think of hwo it has worked in europe, particularily scandinavia before you bash it.
 
Originally posted by: overclock
When people want government run healthcare I just think of the following quote:

That's the medical future for all of us, if government takes over medical care. The last thing we need is a government-run medical system with the "compassion of the IRS, the efficiency of the Post Office, at Pentagon pricing."

What's the efficiency, compassion, and pricing of the current system? We spend the most as a percent of gdp and per capita on healthcare, have tens of millions uninsured, pay highest prices for prescription drugs, and our employers are busy exporting jobs to countries where it's cheaper to pay someone's salary than to pay US worker's health insurance premium.
 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Key word being TN. If you're going to claim universal / nationalized healthcare doesn't work-- at least define the term "doesn't work." Most other western countries have it and I think their citizens would prefer it to our system.

That must be why so many foreign people and political leaders come to the United States for care right?
How many Americans go to Western Europe for healthcare?



 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: overclock
When people want government run healthcare I just think of the following quote:

That's the medical future for all of us, if government takes over medical care. The last thing we need is a government-run medical system with the "compassion of the IRS, the efficiency of the Post Office, at Pentagon pricing."

What's the efficiency, compassion, and pricing of the current system? We spend the most as a percent of gdp and per capita on healthcare, have tens of millions uninsured, pay highest prices for prescription drugs, and our employers are busy exporting jobs to countries where it's cheaper to pay someone's salary than to pay US worker's health insurance premium.


drugs aren't going to get cheaper until other countries start paying for them

 
TennCare opened enrollment to hundreds of thousands of people who did not qualify for Medicaid, even to some six-figure earners. Costs quickly exploded, and despite attempts to tighten eligibility rules the program still covers 1.3 million of the state's 5.8 million people.

Middle class and Weathly people are doing thier best to bankrupt the system. Happens all the time. I know millionaires on SS and they're not 62.5 either but have good lawyers which extract the benefits, just like this story talked about it's cheaper to give in than fight.

Anyway, I never thought one state alone socialized medicine would work. But nationally it has potential just like every other industrial country has from Austraila to Sweden since at least the 60's.

1) more poor move into that state to take advantage of the free for all, liabilites.
2) more assets move out of that state to avoid paying.
3) Doctors, nurses, pharmacists want best pay possible and will move away from a state that negotiates thier fee
4) They only do it half way with lots of private middle men taking a chunk of pie instead of state owned hospitals and clincs and state employeed heathcare proessionals.

the only way a system like this could work is on the federal level because they have way more money per capita and it would reduce the fight to zero since the only place you can move to is a third world-shit-hole or a nation with already universal care.
 
iI just don't trust the government to handle healthercare - or much of anything else. Government is big, slow, ineffeicent, and expensive at anything it does. I don't understand why people believe that having the government taking the reigns of the US healthcare system will be a good thing.
 
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