State department: Hillary did not comply with policies

[werepossum]

Unless I'm mistaking your point, it only negates one possible aspect. Even if they wanted to only accuse her of having (and granting) access to classified material when she didn't have clearance that would be enough. FYI, the server admin had 0 clearance the entire time from what I read (citation needed). It's been a long weekend and I don't recall the source of that immediately.

My point was that immunizing Pagliani without even knowing that his emails were missing would show that this is only a sham investigation, if true. Granting immunity requires a pretty good idea of the grantee's culpability (if any) as well as what he or she can and will give in return. If the FBI granted Pagliani immunity without even investigating his part, then it cannot truly be an investigation. The FBI simply isn't that incompetent.

I'll take "they weren't classified until a later date" for $100, Alex.

.

You guys certainly know how to contort the truth. If they were classified, then they were only classified later (presumably after Mrs. Clinton turned over or destroyed all remaining copies - assuming that has even happened yet). And if they were inherently classified so that not even one word can be released, well, then obviously they are magazine articles that never should have been classified.

One thing that you can no longer deny is that this is the form of government you prefer: corrupt, secretive, and completely beyond the rule of law.

Damn a lot of double talk to justify it "they weren't classified yet" "they weren't in governemnt control until she gave them to her. so she couldn't remove them"

fucking disgusting. the way people are doing there best to defend her.

I'm not holding this situation against her. At least not until and if she gets indicted. But the way both sides are acting is disgusting.

Agreed. But as disgusting as this is, do you really see any ethical way to prosecute the Hildabeast without also prosecuting much of the Bush administration? If hosting a captive server for government business is criminally bad - and I agree that it's very bad indeed - then moving government business to private servers when one wishes to be beyond discovery is also criminally bad. "Your Honor, my client isn't a real bank robber like those other guys. My client only robbed banks when he was broke." My point is that the Pubbies in government screaming for her to be strung up by her cankles only want the talking point, not actual action holding government within the law.

I absolutely despise this type of government. I also despise selective enforcement. As much as I dislike Hillary, if one is prosecuted then they should all be prosecuted. I admit I was wrong about Colin Powell being equally culpable, but if memory serves the Bushies were caught moving some government business (including some classified business) onto RNC servers. And as we have seen ad nauseum with the lefties in government, the RNC's email also disappeared and can only be recovered from scattered recipients. Two very different faces of one very corrupt coin.

 

[Jhhnn]

Damn a lot of double talk to justify it "they weren't classified yet" "they weren't in governemnt control until she gave them to her. so she couldn't remove them"

fucking disgusting. the way people are doing there best to defend her.

I'm not holding this situation against her. At least not until and if she gets indicted. But the way both sides are acting is disgusting.

It's not double talk at all. Imagine yourself working in the inner circle of the SoS. You have a secure system & regular old email. Any rational person would think that if you keep the secure system stuff out of your regular email that you'd be doing that right & that anything not marked as classified coming in over the internet isn't classified for the purposes of the work at hand. There's no other way to look at it that makes sense & lets you do the job.

 

[feralkid]

You guys certainly know how to contort the truth. If they were classified, then they were only classified later (presumably after Mrs. Clinton turned over or destroyed all remaining copies - assuming that has even happened yet). And if they were inherently classified so that not even one word can be released, well, then obviously they are magazine articles that never should have been classified.
.

I do not understand what you are trying to say here.




.

 

[Jhhnn]

But not keep it after clearance has expired or share it with those who aren't cleared like the mail admin.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/09/04/hillarys-highly-paid-it-guru-had-no-national-security-experience/

He had no clearance, several other sources for the same info if you doubt this source. While I can't really find a strong source, I'm not seeing anyone say he did have clearance either...

You're really flailing now, side shifting from one false talking point to another. It's perfectly obvious that Pagliani passed security clearance upon being hired at the State Dept as did all of Clinton's staff. State wouldn't have hired him otherwise.

Duh.

 

[Jhhnn]

My point was that immunizing Pagliani without even knowing that his emails were missing would show that this is only a sham investigation, if true. Granting immunity requires a pretty good idea of the grantee's culpability (if any) as well as what he or she can and will give in return. If the FBI granted Pagliani immunity without even investigating his part, then it cannot truly be an investigation. The FBI simply isn't that incompetent.

Yeh, the propagandists have seized on this as the prospects of any indictments fade into the distance. It's transparent doublespeak. If the FBI is competent then the investigation can't be rigged. They can't be competent w/o being impartial. But you manage to claim that both sides of a contradiction are true as a lead in to the eventual conspiracy theory of the FBI being corrupt.

It's impossible to know why Pagliani demanded immunity. We could speculate it was because he failed to disclose his additional income on a govt form or that he cheated on his taxes or just a general desire to enjoy full protection of his rights.

It's also impossible to say what information the FBI wanted from him & how his personal email might even be relevant.

But it all makes for excellent conspiracy theory fodder.

 

[Phoenix86]

It's not double talk at all. Imagine yourself working in the inner circle of the SoS. You have a secure system & regular old email. Any rational person would think that if you keep the secure system stuff out of your regular email that you'd be doing that right & that anything not marked as classified coming in over the internet isn't classified for the purposes of the work at hand. There's no other way to look at it that makes sense & lets you do the job.

Any rational person wouldn't have a regular old email, because it's insecure, which is why the state department wouldn't have allowed it.

 

[Phoenix86]

You're really flailing now, side shifting from one false talking point to another. It's perfectly obvious that Pagliani passed security clearance upon being hired at the State Dept as did all of Clinton's staff. State wouldn't have hired him otherwise.

Duh.

https://bunkerville.wordpress.com/2...tate-dept-company-without-security-clearance/

The DSS is an arm of the Defense Department and is the only federal agency authorized to approve private sector company access to sensitive or confidential material.

The agency reviews and approves private contractors to assure they have secure facilities and approves security clearances for employees to clear them for access to sensitive or classified materials.

About 13,000 companies have received FCL or facility-wide clearance. But Platte River is not one of them.

“Platte River is not cleared” to have access to classified material, stated Cindy McGovern, chief public affairs officer for DSS in a telephone interview with The Daily Caller News Foundation.

 

[Guurn]

Yeh, the propagandists have seized on this as the prospects of any indictments fade into the distance.

Fade off in the distance? LoL This may be signature material.

 

[Jhhnn]

https://bunkerville.wordpress.com/2...tate-dept-company-without-security-clearance/

The DSS is an arm of the Defense Department and is the only federal agency authorized to approve private sector company access to sensitive or confidential material.

The agency reviews and approves private contractors to assure they have secure facilities and approves security clearances for employees to clear them for access to sensitive or classified materials.

About 13,000 companies have received FCL or facility-wide clearance. But Platte River is not one of them.

“Platte River is not cleared” to have access to classified material, stated Cindy McGovern, chief public affairs officer for DSS in a telephone interview with The Daily Caller News Foundation.

More side shifting. The fact that Platte River had physical possession of the equipment does not mean they had access to the information it allegedly contained or that any of it was classified when they received the equipment. That also has no relevance to the previous innuendo wrt Pagliani & his security clearance.

What you're doing is the usual from right wing propagandists- filling information gaps with supposition & innuendo. That's been true from Whitewater forward. Those who want to believe obviously will when properly manipulated. That doesn't mean any of it is actually true.

 

[Jhhnn]

Any rational person wouldn't have a regular old email, because it's insecure, which is why the state department wouldn't have allowed it.

The Hatch Act requires that govt employees not use govt resources for personal or political purposes. Therefore employees must maintain private accounts if they want regular email like the rest of us.

The State Dept also maintains unsecured email systems for day to day activities. Any email system connected to the internet is fundamentally insecure.

 

[Phoenix86]

More side shifting. The fact that Platte River had physical possession of the equipment does not mean they had access to the information it allegedly contained or that any of it was classified when they received the equipment. That also has no relevance to the previous innuendo wrt Pagliani & his security clearance.

What you're doing is the usual from right wing propagandists- filling information gaps with supposition & innuendo. That's been true from Whitewater forward. Those who want to believe obviously will when properly manipulated. That doesn't mean any of it is actually true.

You still aren't demonstrating Pagliano had clearance.

I won't hold my breath though.

 

[Phoenix86]

The Hatch Act requires that govt employees not use govt resources for personal or political purposes. Therefore employees must maintain private accounts if they want regular email like the rest of us.

The State Dept also maintains unsecured email systems for day to day activities. Any email system connected to the internet is fundamentally insecure.

Which has 0 to do with using private e-mail servers for government material use.

 

[wetech]

I'll also take "they weren't removed from govt possession" as well. The contents of her server weren't in govt possession until she handed them over.

Neither were the contents of the server at GWB43.com before they were erased.

Ugh... The fact that they were on her server IS the removal from government possession.

 

[hal2kilo]

The Hatch Act requires that govt employees not use govt resources for personal or political purposes. Therefore employees must maintain private accounts if they want regular email like the rest of us.

The State Dept also maintains unsecured email systems for day to day activities. Any email system connected to the internet is fundamentally insecure.

And that's the motivation. Cabinet positions are always political positions. Some of these cabinet members remain politically active. I'm not making excuses. This was a clumsily crafted way of separating those communications paths.

 

[werepossum]

I do not understand what you are trying to say here.

.

Yeah . . . I think you do.

Yeh, the propagandists have seized on this as the prospects of any indictments fade into the distance. It's transparent doublespeak. If the FBI is competent then the investigation can't be rigged. They can't be competent w/o being impartial. But you manage to claim that both sides of a contradiction are true as a lead in to the eventual conspiracy theory of the FBI being corrupt.

It's impossible to know why Pagliani demanded immunity. We could speculate it was because he failed to disclose his additional income on a govt form or that he cheated on his taxes or just a general desire to enjoy full protection of his rights.

It's also impossible to say what information the FBI wanted from him & how his personal email might even be relevant.

But it all makes for excellent conspiracy theory fodder.

It's his State Department email that is missing. Going by the theory that every State employee occasionally does a bit of work in between doing favors for the Clintons, that is not his "personal email". And claiming that it's "impossible to say" how the email of the guy who set up and maintained the system might be relevant is a level of stupidity that even you can't claim.

The Hatch Act requires that govt employees not use govt resources for personal or political purposes. Therefore employees must maintain private accounts if they want regular email like the rest of us.

The State Dept also maintains unsecured email systems for day to day activities. Any email system connected to the internet is fundamentally insecure.

I have to wonder how you maintain this level of stupidity day after day. I can't imagine drugs would be sufficient. Are you striking your head with a sledge hammer? Having someone run over your head each morning with a hybrid? Drilling holes to let your third eye see? Trepanning perhaps? Pray tell us your secret, for we are impressed.

Mostly amused, true. But also impressed.

 

[werepossum]

You still aren't demonstrating Pagliano had clearance.

I won't hold my breath though.

What, you aren't accepting his argument that just because they had it, that doesn't mean that they had it had it? It's like rape - sometimes it can be rape, but it's not rape rape.

 

[Jhhnn]

You still aren't demonstrating Pagliano had clearance.

I won't hold my breath though.

The notion that the State Dept would employ IT professionals who did not pass security clearance is absurd & a scurrilous attack on their integrity.

It's bullshit.

 

[Jhhnn]

Ugh... The fact that they were on her server IS the removal from government possession.

You can't remove from govt possession something they never had.

 

[feralkid]

Yeah . . . I think you do.

Ummm...


o.k. then...


...nevermind...I guess?

 

[Jhhnn]

Which has 0 to do with using private e-mail servers for government material use.

True, but it counters the extraneous point you tried desperately to establish.

 

[Phoenix86]

The notion that the State Dept would employ IT professionals who did not pass security clearance is absurd & a scurrilous attack on their integrity.

It's bullshit.

Unauthorized, unsecured server? Acceptable on all levels.
Admin without clearance? Impossible.

 

[Phoenix86]

True, but it counters the extraneous point you tried desperately to establish.

It's not my fault you didn't understand the context, but the entire conversation is regarding official government use. You set the bar so low it's touching the floor and you're still tripping over it...

 

[Jhhnn]

Yeah . . . I think you do.


It's his State Department email that is missing. Going by the theory that every State employee occasionally does a bit of work in between doing favors for the Clintons, that is not his "personal email". And claiming that it's "impossible to say" how the email of the guy who set up and maintained the system might be relevant is a level of stupidity that even you can't claim.

You're right about it being his State email. My mistake. OTOH, State's inability to produce it doesn't mean anything other than the fact that they can't produce it. Anything beyond that is conspiracy theory.

I have to wonder how you maintain this level of stupidity day after day. I can't imagine drugs would be sufficient. Are you striking your head with a sledge hammer? Having someone run over your head each morning with a hybrid? Drilling holes to let your third eye see? Trepanning perhaps? Pray tell us your secret, for we are impressed.

Mostly amused, true. But also impressed.

It's remarkable how you shift to personal attack when you have no counter to true statements. The State Dept maintains secured systems that are not accessible via the usual means of the internet. They maintain systems that are for mundane business. Employees must maintain private internet access for anything personal or political, per the Hatch Act. If you take issue with any of that, please address it directly.

 

[Jhhnn]

Unauthorized, unsecured server? Acceptable on all levels.
Admin without clearance? Impossible.

It's not my fault you didn't understand the context, but the entire conversation is regarding official government use. You set the bar so low it's touching the floor and you're still tripping over it...

Pure obfuscation.

 

[Starbuck1975]

The notion that the State Dept would employ IT professionals who did not pass security clearance is absurd & a scurrilous attack on their integrity.

It's bullshit.

It is not absurd to question how someone with a political science degree and no information security credentials received a GS15 information security specialist appointment. All of the GS15 employees I interacted with were recognized and certified experts in their respective fields. Pagliano's resume and his position is an anomaly.