Starting Strength

[coldmeat]

I've been doing Starting Strength for about 1.5 months, and I really haven't made much progress. I've been benching, OH pressing, and rowing the same weight the whole time. The only lift that has made a lot of progress is my squat which has increased about 50lbs. Should I continue doing SS or should I look for another program? Maybe a split routine?

Is this just the wrong program for me or am I just not doing it right?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I would assume you're not doing it right. If thousands of people have made gains on this beginner's linear program, I doubt it would just be you to have trouble. Are you purposely increasing the weight? Why has your weight not gone up? You're supposed to push it so you increase every week.

 

[coldmeat]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
I would assume you're not doing it right. If thousands of people have made gains on this beginner's linear program, I doubt it would just be you to have trouble. Are you purposely increasing the weight? Why has your weight not gone up? You're supposed to push it so you increase every week.

Well I guess my bench press is the best example. Since I've started I can just squeeze out the 5th rep and no more, but once I take a break I can do 5 more, and I could do this all day, but I can't get a 6th. I do it again on Thursday and I'm going to try to increase the weight whether I feel I can get 3x5 or not. I'm bringing a friend to spot me just in case.

 

[GenHoth]

Beginner? yes no? Age? Weight? Lifts?

I'm with SC, you're not doing it right. We're you improving in the beginning? What weights did you start at? Did you follow the beginning of the routine or just jump in with your current weights?

 

[coldmeat]

Originally posted by: GenHoth
Beginner? yes no? Age? Weight? Lifts?

I'm with SC, you're not doing it right. We're you improving in the beginning? What weights did you start at? Did you follow the beginning of the routine or just jump in with your current weights?

Yes, I'm a beginner. I only ever been in a gym a few times before a month ago. I'm 20, 195lbs.

Squat: 170
Deadlift: 160
Bench: 100
Row: 90
Press: 60

Haven't really seen any improvements at all since I started except for my squat. In the beginning I slowly built the weight up on all of my lifts over the course of a week to see where I am at.

My lifts are really low, and it's disappointing.

 

[brikis98]

It's very likely you're just not doing something right. Unfortunately, without knowing more about you, your routine, your lifestyle, etc it's hard to say what. Here are some guesses:

1. How is your diet? How many calories are you eating per day? How many grams of protein? Are you just guessing at these numbers or using a site like fitday or thedailyplate to calculate them?

2. Are you sleeping enough?

3. Are you following the routine as instructed?. Are you lifting 3 days per week on non-consecutive days (more is NOT better)? Are you alternating the A/B workouts? Are you doing a few light warm-up sets followed by 3x5 work sets (except 1x5 for deadlift) of each exercise? Are you doing other activities after the workout or on off days? Why are you doing rows instead of power cleans?

4. How is your form on the exercises? Your deadlift number seems low, especially considering your body weight and your squat numbers, and this is usually indicator of improper form on either the deadlift or squat (or both). When you deadlift, is the bar in contact with your shins and then thighs the entire time? Are you pulling the bar with your back or pushing your hips forward? As for the squat, perhaps the number is inflated. Does your hip joint end up below your knee joint? Are you pushing your knees out? Is your back rounding? Do you start the motion by bending your knees or pushing your hips back? Perhaps you should post some videos so people can evaluate them.

5. What weights did you start with on the first week or two? Did you start with your 3x5 maxes? On days you've finished a 3x5 of an exercise, did you add 5 or 10lbs to that exercise for the next workout? Or are you just repeating the exact same 3x5 each time?

Please note that NONE of the above is intended to be insulting or condescending in any way. It's great that you are doing SS and it's very surprising that you're not seeing massive gains as a beginner. The only other piece of advice I can give to get the actual Starting Strength book, if you haven't already. It's an invaluable resource that teaches you how to do the lifts, why they are done, explains the routine, describes a ton of assistance exercises, has great illustrations and more.

 

[coldmeat]

Originally posted by: brikis98
It's very likely you're just not doing something right. Unfortunately, without knowing more about you, your routine, your lifestyle, etc it's hard to say what. Here are some guesses:

1. How is your diet? How many calories are you eating per day? How many grams of protein? Are you just guessing at these numbers or using a site like fitday or thedailyplate to calculate them?

2. Are you sleeping enough?

3. Are you following the routine as instructed?. Are you lifting 3 days per week on non-consecutive days (more is NOT better)? Are you alternating the A/B workouts? Are you doing a few light warm-up sets followed by 3x5 work sets (except 1x5 for deadlift) of each exercise? Are you doing other activities after the workout or on off days? Why are you doing rows instead of power cleans?

4. How is your form on the exercises? Your deadlift seems especially low, especially given your body weight and squat, and this is usually indicator of improper form. When you deadlift, is the bar in contact with your shins and then thighs the entire time? Are you pulling the bar with your back or pushing your hips forward? As for the squat, perhaps the number is inflated. Does your hip joint end up below your knee joint? Are you pushing your knees out? Is your back rounding? Perhaps you should post some videos so people can evaluate them.

5. What weights did you start with on day *one*? If you've finished a 3x5 of an exercise on some day, did you add 5 or 10lbs for the next workout? Or are you just repeating the exact same 3x5 each time?

Please note that NONE of the above is intended to be insulting or condescending in any way. It's great that you are doing SS and it's very surprising that you're not seeing massive gains as a beginner. The only other piece of advice I can give to get the actual Starting Strength book, if you haven't already. It's an invaluable resource that teaches you how to do the lifts, why they are done, explains the routine, details a ton of assistance exercises, and more.

1. I have been trying to remember to use fitday. I signed up when I started and found out that I was eating way less than I thought, and since then I have been trying to eat more. I do drink a protein shake when I get home after a workout.

2. I do get 8 hours, in a horrible bed though.

3. I lift tuesday, thursday, saturday. I warm up with my heavier lifts. It just seems like more work than it's worth to warm up with my OH press and such, because I would need to load the bar, unload, load, etc. because when I do my 3x5 I only have 2 25lb plated on.

4. My form for my squats is OK I believe. I did have an issue with leaning too forward and putting too much pressure on my knees but I fixed that and have been concentrating on the angle of my shins and keeping my lower back in check.

I am almost 100% sure my deadlift form is off. I have a hard time keeping my back straight and tight with heavier weights, that is why I haven't tried to increase it too much.

5. On day one I finished the day at
Squat: 110
Deadlift: 140
Bench: 100
Row: 80
Press: 50

As I said, I will be doing my deadlift and bench again on Thursday, so I will be able to update then. I will try to increase my bench press by 5-10lbs and see how it goes, and I will spend extra time on my deadlift.

My shoulders and chest are pretty much non-existent. I have never had a reason to work out before and was never really active.

edit: another thing is that when I'm on the bench, I have a hard time keeping the weights straight. They really get wobbly. I think it has something to do with the fact that my left side is much weaker than my right.

 

[GenHoth]

I would try to up them, if you can't move the increased weight its probably best to knock those weights that aren't moving down 10-15% and start over again from there.

 

[brikis98]

You didn't answer my question of whether you own the actual Starting Strength book, but judging by your responses, I'm guessing you don't. If you are going to invest HUNDREDS OF HOURS doing the routine, you should invest $30 and a couple hours at the beginning to actually learn what the hell you're doing...

Originally posted by: coldmeat
1. I have been trying to remember to use fitday. I signed up when I started and found out that I was eating way less than I thought, and since then I have been trying to eat more. I do drink a protein shake when I get home after a workout.

Eat more. You'll be surprised how much of a difference this can make. The recommended approach in SS is to drink a gallon of milk each day. That's a bit hard core, but if you do even half that, I bet you'll see more progress...

Originally posted by: coldmeat
3. I lift tuesday, thursday, saturday. I warm up with my heavier lifts. It just seems like more work than it's worth to warm up with my OH press and such, because I would need to load the bar, unload, load, etc. because when I do my 3x5 I only have 2 25lb plated on.

BIG mistake. First, you should warm-up before any workout. Dynamic stretches, light cardio, body weight exercises, etc. This is absolutely crucial in getting your body prepared for ANY kind of exercise. It loosens the muscles, gets the blood flowing and helps prevent injury. It will also boost your performance and is well worth the 10 minutes.

Second, you need to do a warm-up for EVERY lift you do. This is something VERY stressed in the SS book. You start with a set with the BARE BAR. Even if you get to squatting 500lbs, the first set should always be a warm-up with the bare bar. After that, you do 3-4 warm-up sets with progressively more weight (and typically, progressively fewer reps) until you get to some percentage of your working sets. For example, to warm-up for a 100lbs squat, you could warm-up with:

45x8
65x5
85x5

This kind of warm-up is ESSENTIAL for several reasons:

1. You prepare the neuro-muscular pathways for the particular motion. This will help prevent injuries and, despite having to overcome your laziness and move a little weight around, will likely help you lift more weight in your working sets.

2. You are far more likely to keep proper form with light weight than heavy weight. Jumping straight into the heavy weight is a sure-fire way to screw up your form (and injure yourself and stall your lifts and look foolish...). Practice with the lighter weights first to get the feel for the proper motion and then match that feeling when you go to the heavier weight.

Originally posted by: coldmeat
4. My form for my squats is OK I believe. I did have an issue with leaning too forward and putting too much pressure on my knees but I fixed that and have been concentrating on the angle of my shins and keeping my lower back in check.

You didn't answer my questions about your squat form. At the bottom of the rep, where does your hip end up in respect to your knees? Are you tracking your knees out over your toes? Are you using the low bar or high bar position? Do you try to get out of the whole by pushing the bar up with your back or by pushing up vertically with your butt? Where are your eyes looking during a rep? Is your weight on your heels or your toes?

Originally posted by: coldmeat
I am almost 100% sure my deadlift form is off. I have a hard time keeping my back straight and tight with heavier weights, that is why I haven't tried to increase it too much.

Well, that should be a priority to get right. You can seriously hurt your back - even with lighter weights - if you do deadlift improperly (I speak from personal experience). Get the form down perfect and worry about the weight later. Again, questions about your deadlift: is the bar in contact with your shins/thighs the whole time? Do you "pull" with your back or "push" with your hips at the top of a rep? Is your weight on your heels or your toes? How wide is your grip? How wide is your stance?

Originally posted by: coldmeat
5. On day one I finished the day at
Squat: 110
Deadlift: 140
Bench: 100

Row: 80
Press: 50

Typically, if you stall very quickly with the Starting Strength routine, it's because you started too heavy. What I typically recommend is figuring out your 5 rep max and on day one, do ~75% of that. Work your way up slowly over the next couple of weeks so that you actually reach your original 5 rep max on week 3 or so. By then, you should have a better feel of the lifts and be stronger, so you'll be able to do more the following workout.

Oh, and once more: why aren't you doing power cleans?

 

[coldmeat]

No, I don't own the book. I don't even know where I would get it. Amazon.ca doesn't carry it and neither does Chapters.

At the bottom of my squats my hips are slightly lower than my knees. I try to keep my knees in and my butt out. I use a low bar, high bar is too hard on my neck. i found out quickly that by pushing with my back at all it ends up hurting me so I fixed that pretty quick. I look forward but try to watch my knees through the mirror which is about 3-4 feet in front of me. I try to keep the weight balanced between my heels and toes. I had a problem at first with putting too much weight on my toes.

The bar does scrape my shins, at least at the beginning. I try to push with my butt and I don't shrug at the top or try to extend my back. Once my knees and legs are straight and my hips locked I stop. my grip is slightly wider than shoulder width. my stance is shoulder width, maybe a little wider. Of course, this is what I think I am doing or what I am trying to do. Whether or not I do this is completely different.

As for power cleans there are a few reasons.
1. There are only a few people that go to the gym at the same time as me and none of them do them or even know how, so it's hard for me to learn without somebody else there. There's only maybe 5 other regulars that go when I do, and never any trainers.
2. I'm not sure if I could do them safely. I have a hard time controlling weight even with the bench press.
3. There's no room to do them. My gym is really small. We have 2 benches, a preacher curl bench, one power rack, and one of those full body machine things that nobody uses. Other than that and the racks for plates and dumbells, there is no other room. It's awkward doing my rows because I have to do them in front of the racks.
4. Rows are easier to learn.

 

[GenHoth]

nm

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: coldmeat
No, I don't own the book. I don't even know where I would get it. Amazon.ca doesn't carry it and neither does Chapters.

I don't know if they ship to Canada, but you could order it here or here. There is a chance that book stores and even libraries carry it too.

Originally posted by: coldmeat
At the bottom of my squats my hips are slightly lower than my knees. I try to keep my knees in and my butt out. I use a low bar, high bar is too hard on my neck. i found out quickly that by pushing with my back at all it ends up hurting me so I fixed that pretty quick. I look forward but try to watch my knees through the mirror which is about 3-4 feet in front of me. I try to keep the weight balanced between my heels and toes. I had a problem at first with putting too much weight on my toes.

The book has a ~60 page chapter dedicated to squatting that I think you'd really benefit from reading. Some of the useful advice, for example, is to never use a mirror. Not only can it be deceiving, but it also prevents you from properly learning awareness of your own body, which is essential to free weight exercises. I know that might be tough in a gym where all the walls are lined with mirrors, but if you can avoid looking at one, it'll be to your benefit.

Originally posted by: coldmeat
The bar does scrape my shins, at least at the beginning. I try to push with my butt and I don't shrug at the top or try to extend my back. Once my knees and legs are straight and my hips locked I stop. my grip is slightly wider than shoulder width. my stance is shoulder width, maybe a little wider. Of course, this is what I think I am doing or what I am trying to do. Whether or not I do this is completely different.

Again, the book has a long chapter about the deadlift that's very worthwhile. The bar should be in contact with your legs for essentially the entire rep. Yes, your shins may get cut as a result, but they toughen pretty quickly. Your stance for a deadlift should actually be pretty narrow, typically a lot narrower than your squat stance. Try this: start lightly jumping up and down on both feet. Do 5-6 jumps and then just STOP. The way your feet land is going to be very close to the optimal deadlift stance for your body. Why? Because, from years of experience with jumping, this is the stance your body has determined as optimal for delivering power to the ground, which is what you need in a deadlift.

A narrower stance also lets you bring your arms in closer, which gives you more mechanical advantage (and may allow you to position yourself more comfortably). Your hands should be as close together as possible w/o hitting your legs on the way up.

Originally posted by: coldmeat
As for power cleans there are a few reasons.
1. There are only a few people that go to the gym at the same time as me and none of them do them or even know how, so it's hard for me to learn without somebody else there. There's only maybe 5 other regulars that go when I do, and never any trainers.
2. I'm not sure if I could do them safely. I have a hard time controlling weight even with the bench press.
3. There's no room to do them. My gym is really small. We have 2 benches, a preacher curl bench, one power rack, and one of those full body machine things that nobody uses. Other than that and the racks for plates and dumbells, there is no other room. It's awkward doing my rows because I have to do them in front of the racks.
4. Rows are easier to learn.

That's fair. Power cleans and all olympic lifts are indeed very difficult to learn and are best done with the instruction - or at least the watchful eye - of someone else. If you can find a knowledgeable coach, the power clean is a VERY worthwhile lift. Explosive lifts like the power clean are very different than slower powerlifts like the squat and deadlift and really complement a workout. However, if you can't learn/do them safely, don't do them at all.

 

[coldmeat]

Originally posted by: brikis98
A narrower stance also lets you bring your arms in closer, which gives you more mechanical advantage (and may allow you to position yourself more comfortably). Your hands should be as close together as possible w/o hitting your legs on the way up.

That could make all the difference. I'll try that tomorrow.

I also found out that I have been doing rows wrong too. My lower back would be real stiff after finishing and I think it is because I was both bent over too low, and pulling the bar up too high on my chest.

I'll see if I can find where to buy the book. Thanks for the help so far.

 

[gramboh]

Get the book from Amazon.com -- I live in Canada as well and ordered it from there, shipping was cheap, I think I combined it with a bunch of CD's for free shipping actually. It's a must read, especially because you sound serious about your training.

You definitely should not feel pain in your lower back on rows, try bending your knees to bring your body to at most a 90 degree flat angle, you should not be angled 'down' (shoulders lower than hips). Brikis is dead on with all the technique advice as usual.

 

[coldmeat]

Originally posted by: gramboh
You definitely should not feel pain in your lower back on rows

Ya I realized that my form was wrong. I'm going to try to fix it on Saturday.

Anyways, I have some good news. I put an extra 10lbs on the bench today and it went well. Next Tuesday I'm going to try another 5 and see how that goes. I'm going to try to be more aggressive with adding weight.

I'm also going to try to eat a lot more.

 

[gramboh]

Sounds good. Just don't go gangbusters on adding weight and causing yourself to max out and have to deload too soon. As long as you add 5lbs to each lift per workout the weight will get up there fast, and you will be wishing for a deload.

 

[coldmeat]

Okay, went to the gym again today. This workout felt great.

Squat: 170lbs (will likely put on another 5-10 on tuesday)
Row: 90lbs
Press: 65lbs

Rows felt really good. I tried fixing my form and my lower back pain completely disappeared and I added 10lbs, and felt like I could have added more. I think I will bump it up 10lbs on thursday. My overhead press is still pretty weak. I added 5lbs but didn't get in the last rep of the last set. Maybe I should lower the weight again?

I watched a video on youtube of Mark Rippetoe teaching a student about "hip driving" when squatting, and I gave that a try today and felt it more in my hamstrings than before. Squats felt really good.

I'm not looking forward to deadlifts on tuesday. They are my least favorite lift. I'm still not 100% sure of how much I should be lifting and I still feel it in my lower back.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: coldmeat
Okay, went to the gym again today. This workout felt great.

Squat: 170lbs (will likely put on another 5-10 on tuesday)
Row: 90lbs
Press: 65lbs

Rows felt really good. I tried fixing my form and my lower back pain completely disappeared and I added 10lbs, and felt like I could have added more. I think I will bump it up 10lbs on thursday. My overhead press is still pretty weak. I added 5lbs but didn't get in the last rep of the last set. Maybe I should lower the weight again?

I watched a video on youtube of Mark Rippetoe teaching a student about "hip driving" when squatting, and I gave that a try today and felt it more in my hamstrings than before. Squats felt really good.

I'm not looking forward to deadlifts on tuesday. They are my least favorite lift. I'm still not 100% sure of how much I should be lifting and I still feel it in my lower back.

Danger Danger! Jesus, why the hell are you doing ANY lift if you're experiencing lower back pain?!!!!!! The deadlift is the kiss of death to your lower back if you aren't careful. The other lifts you are doing are serious work and they are dangerous. Squats, if done improperly, can fuck up your back, your knees, or your shoulders.

Here are your problems, as I see them.

1. You don't know how to do these lifts right. You are having trouble making gains because I bet your form is breaking down before you even hit your 'max' and, when you do your max, you're probably doing the lifts completely incorrectly.

2. You started with too much weight. Start with basically nothing the first time out -- I started with a 45 pound bench-press! -- and work your way up. Take your time. There is no hurry to get to a 100 lb bench if you can't properly bench 50 lbs.

3. If you continue to lift the way you are lifting, you're going to hurt yourself, badly. Get the Starting Strength book, get a video camera, and post your lifts online.

 

[coldmeat]

I'll see if I can get a hold of a camera to post vids but I honestly don't know anyone who has one. I'll call a few friends and see what I can do.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: coldmeat
I'll see if I can get a hold of a camera to post vids but I honestly don't know anyone who has one. I'll call a few friends and see what I can do.

That's what I did. I used my digital camera and recorded video of me lifting. There are a bunch of forums that can help you out.

I don't mean to sound harsh in previous post, but you'll really regret messing up your back if you are lifting incorrectly.

 

[coldmeat]

I do have a digital camera. I forgot it takes videos. How much video would it film though?

 

[dealmaster00]

I guess you'll find out when you go make some vids of your lifts.

 

[lucasorion]

Originally posted by: coldmeat


I'm also going to try to eat a lot more.

protein, protein, protein - get at least 1 gram for each pound of body weight, or even 1.5x

I seem to perform best when I manage to get a good breakfast of three eggs, go to work for two hours, then go lift for an early lunch break (if I can sneak away), then I eat a couple chicken breasts and a protein bar for dessert. If I'm not properly fueled, I not only fail to improve on what I lifted in the previous session, I don't have enough to match it.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

you can go up in weight even if you don't completely the full 3x5.
if i do a 5/5/4, or even a 5/4/3, i'm going up 5# on my next lift.

 

[lucasorion]

really? I would want to perfect what I'm trying to do before moving up. For instance, in my OH press, I was stuck on 150# (stronglifts 5x5) for a couple weeks, doing push presses to finish sets when I couldn't do a clean OH. If I had added 5 pounds, I just would have performed worse and had to do more push presses. The first time I did 5 clean sets at 150, I moved up to 155, and only had to stay there for 1 extra workout.