Starting strength has no ab work?

[enwar3]

One of my friends asked if I did crunches and when I thought about it, I realized I don't really get any ab work. I do a dumbbells-only routine (will move to barbells when I get back to college in less than a month) based loosely on SS.

Workout A
3x5 squats
3x5 bench
1x5 deadlift
2x8 dip
3x5 pull over

Workout B
3x5 squats
3x5 overhead press
3x5 bent-over row
2x6-8 pull-up
3x5 upright row

Workouts are 3x week, alternate A/B, including warm-up sets.

It's working out pretty well for now (lower body is stalling because it's getting really difficult to do squats with heavier dumbbells, but that's not the point of this post), but should I be working abs/torso/core? It seems like it'd be pretty dangerous to not work abs at all, and looking at this routine, only the pull over hits abs and that's minimally.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: enwar3
...looking at this routine, only the pull over hits abs and that's minimally.

Look closer. Your abs are also used extensively as part of the squat, deadlift and overhead press. For most people - especially beginners - this is all the ab work that you need.

If you think you need more, first ask why, and be honest with yourself. If the main motivation is that you want to be able to see a six pack, don't bother. Seeing your six pack is almost entirely controlled by your diet and all the crunches in the world won't make a difference.

On the other hand, if you think your ab/core strength is lacking - for example, in some sport or activity, or even if you need more stability for squatting, OH press, etc - feel free to add ab work as an assistance exercise. In SS, the role of assistance exercises is to help you make progress on your main lifts (squat, deadlift, OH press, bench, power clean). They should never interfere with the core lifts. Therefore, you do them at the end of the workout, usually for 1-3 sets of ~8 reps. You could, for example, add a 3x8 of the ab exercise of your choice at the end of one workout a week.

 

[enwar3]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: enwar3
...looking at this routine, only the pull over hits abs and that's minimally.

Look closer. Your abs are also used extensively as part of the squat, deadlift and overhead press. For most people - especially beginners - this is all the ab work that you need.

If you think you need more, first ask why, and be honest with yourself. If the main motivation is that you want to be able to see a six pack, don't bother. Seeing your six pack is almost entirely controlled by your diet and all the crunches in the world won't make a difference.

On the other hand, if you think your ab/core strength is lacking - for example, in some sport or activity, or even if you need more stability for squatting, OH press, etc - feel free to add ab work as an assistance exercise. In SS, the role of assistance exercises is to help you make progress on your main lifts (squat, deadlift, OH press, bench, power clean). They should never interfere with the core lifts. Therefore, you do them at the end of the workout, usually for 1-3 sets of ~8 reps. You could, for example, add a 3x8 of the ab exercise of your choice at the end of one workout a week.

It's not for a six pack, because I would need to cut my diet and lose weight, which would be the opposite of what I'm trying to do (get stronger and gain weight). I will cut later, probably. Edit: I used to swim a LOT so I am pretty lean to start out. You can see my abs as it is, but I've never worked them so they're not very muscular.

I just wanted to make sure I wasn't leaving my abs out, because I know it's bad to have muscle imbalances. I looked up the squat and deadlift on exrx because I thought maybe abs were incorporated and I didn't see them, but maybe I just missed them by accident. It totally caught me by surprise, because I saw no reason SS shouldn't be a comprehensive routine.

I may add an accessory exercise to strengthen my core on off-days though... any suggestions?

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: enwar3
It's not for a six pack, because I would need to cut my diet and lose weight, which would be the opposite of what I'm trying to do (get stronger and gain weight). I will cut later, probably. Edit: I used to swim a LOT so I am pretty lean to start out. You can see my abs as it is, but I've never worked them so they're not very muscular.

I just wanted to make sure I wasn't leaving my abs out, because I know it's bad to have muscle imbalances. I looked up the squat and deadlift on exrx because I thought maybe abs were incorporated and I didn't see them, but maybe I just missed them by accident. It totally caught me by surprise, because I saw no reason SS shouldn't be a comprehensive routine.

I may add an accessory exercise to strengthen my core on off-days though... any suggestions?

SS is definitely comprehensive and your abs definitely get a lot of work. However, as your body adapts, you are encouraged to add assistance exercises to help you make progress. The most popular assistance exercises are pull-ups, dips & some form of ab/core work.

As for which ab exercise in particular, everyone has their own favorites. When I was doing SS, I would constantly alternate my ab work. A couple weeks of decline sit-ups, a couple weeks of crunches on a fitness ball, a couple weeks of leg lifts or knees to elbows and so on. Constantly changing it up keeps it interesting & challenging. I've also heard that GHD sit-ups and hip/back extensions are an incredible way to work your entire core, but I don't have a GHD at my gym.

 

[Riverhound777]

My abs seem to get the most work during pull-ups. You can always bring your legs up and forward during pull-ups to really hit them.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: enwar3

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: enwar3
...looking at this routine, only the pull over hits abs and that's minimally.

Look closer. Your abs are also used extensively as part of the squat, deadlift and overhead press. For most people - especially beginners - this is all the ab work that you need.

If you think you need more, first ask why, and be honest with yourself. If the main motivation is that you want to be able to see a six pack, don't bother. Seeing your six pack is almost entirely controlled by your diet and all the crunches in the world won't make a difference.

On the other hand, if you think your ab/core strength is lacking - for example, in some sport or activity, or even if you need more stability for squatting, OH press, etc - feel free to add ab work as an assistance exercise. In SS, the role of assistance exercises is to help you make progress on your main lifts (squat, deadlift, OH press, bench, power clean). They should never interfere with the core lifts. Therefore, you do them at the end of the workout, usually for 1-3 sets of ~8 reps. You could, for example, add a 3x8 of the ab exercise of your choice at the end of one workout a week.

It's not for a six pack, because I would need to cut my diet and lose weight, which would be the opposite of what I'm trying to do (get stronger and gain weight). I will cut later, probably. Edit: I used to swim a LOT so I am pretty lean to start out. You can see my abs as it is, but I've never worked them so they're not very muscular.

I just wanted to make sure I wasn't leaving my abs out, because I know it's bad to have muscle imbalances. I looked up the squat and deadlift on exrx because I thought maybe abs were incorporated and I didn't see them, but maybe I just missed them by accident. It totally caught me by surprise, because I saw no reason SS shouldn't be a comprehensive routine.

I may add an accessory exercise to strengthen my core on off-days though... any suggestions?

How much lifting experience do you have? Starting Strength IS a comprehensive lifting program -- for noobs. The name is Starting Strength, not Intermediate or Advanced Strength. Hence, the program is designed for people who haven't ever lifted before. The reason there aren't ab workouts or bicep workouts or anything like that is because new lifters are weak. They need to focus on building up the their core strength without being distracted by bicep or ab-exclusive workouts. Instead, SS hits the abs through the Squat. I think Rippetoe was hesitant to include an ab or bicep-exclusive workout because SS is also targeted at teenagers, who are fascinated with 'teh guns' and 'teh 6 pack.' He wants you in the gym 3x per week giving max effort, not in the gym 2x per week with sore abs bitching and moaning that you can't squat because you blew them out in a 10 minute workout.

HOWEVER, If you read about Starting Strength, most people suggest that you ad in an ab workout and a pullup / dips workout, but only after a month or two of SS. You don't want to overload your system too early because your body is already going to be dedicating a lot of energy to building your core muscles.

I'd recommend starting on the basic Starting Strength program. Get your form down for the major lifts and, after two weeks, see how you feel. If you're feeling good and have extra energy go ahead and add in dips / pullups on A workout days and abs on B workout days. Don't overdo it. Also, if you want the greatest gains, I wouldn't recommend doing the accessory workouts on off-days. Stick them on at the end of your regular workout.

 

[enwar3]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: enwar3

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: enwar3
...looking at this routine, only the pull over hits abs and that's minimally.

Look closer. Your abs are also used extensively as part of the squat, deadlift and overhead press. For most people - especially beginners - this is all the ab work that you need.

If you think you need more, first ask why, and be honest with yourself. If the main motivation is that you want to be able to see a six pack, don't bother. Seeing your six pack is almost entirely controlled by your diet and all the crunches in the world won't make a difference.

On the other hand, if you think your ab/core strength is lacking - for example, in some sport or activity, or even if you need more stability for squatting, OH press, etc - feel free to add ab work as an assistance exercise. In SS, the role of assistance exercises is to help you make progress on your main lifts (squat, deadlift, OH press, bench, power clean). They should never interfere with the core lifts. Therefore, you do them at the end of the workout, usually for 1-3 sets of ~8 reps. You could, for example, add a 3x8 of the ab exercise of your choice at the end of one workout a week.

It's not for a six pack, because I would need to cut my diet and lose weight, which would be the opposite of what I'm trying to do (get stronger and gain weight). I will cut later, probably. Edit: I used to swim a LOT so I am pretty lean to start out. You can see my abs as it is, but I've never worked them so they're not very muscular.

I just wanted to make sure I wasn't leaving my abs out, because I know it's bad to have muscle imbalances. I looked up the squat and deadlift on exrx because I thought maybe abs were incorporated and I didn't see them, but maybe I just missed them by accident. It totally caught me by surprise, because I saw no reason SS shouldn't be a comprehensive routine.

I may add an accessory exercise to strengthen my core on off-days though... any suggestions?

How much lifting experience do you have? Starting Strength IS a comprehensive lifting program -- for noobs. The name is Starting Strength, not Intermediate or Advanced Strength. Hence, the program is designed for people who haven't ever lifted before. The reason there aren't ab workouts or bicep workouts or anything like that is because new lifters are weak. They need to focus on building up the their core strength without being distracted by bicep or ab-exclusive workouts. Instead, SS hits the abs through the Squat. I think Rippetoe was hesitant to include an ab or bicep-exclusive workout because SS is also targeted at teenagers, who are fascinated with 'teh guns' and 'teh 6 pack.' He wants you in the gym 3x per week giving max effort, not in the gym 2x per week with sore abs bitching and moaning that you can't squat because you blew them out in a 10 minute workout.

HOWEVER, If you read about Starting Strength, most people suggest that you ad in an ab workout and a pullup / dips workout, but only after a month or two of SS. You don't want to overload your system too early because your body is already going to be dedicating a lot of energy to building your core muscles.

I'd recommend starting on the basic Starting Strength program. Get your form down for the major lifts and, after two weeks, see how you feel. If you're feeling good and have extra energy go ahead and add in dips / pullups on A workout days and abs on B workout days. Don't overdo it. Also, if you want the greatest gains, I wouldn't recommend doing the accessory workouts on off-days. Stick them on at the end of your regular workout.

Oops- I already have dips and pull-ups in. My original workout routine is in the OP, with the exception of pullovers and upright rows, which I added later. I have dips and pull-ups because there are some things in SS I can't do until I get into a gym next month (like heavier squats, cleans-actually now that I think about it I'm not sure cleans are in the book)

My workout is already an hour long, longer with cardio warmup, so I'm hesitant to add anything else on. Maybe I'll just keep it as it is for now.

 

[BeauJangles]

I'm no expert, but I don't think that doing pull-ups / dips on off-days would be too terrible. As long as you aren't blowing yourself out on the accessory exercises and have enough gas to get through the core lifts, you'll have no problems!

Good luck!

 

[BlackTigers]

If doing squats and deads don't destroy your entire core, you need to ramp the intensity or wights u. =/

 

[Kaido]

Also Starting Strength != Bodybuilding. The point of Starting Strength is to get stronger, not to make your abs look chiseled. I'd suggest checking out Six Pack Now if you want defined abs; they cover the diet and abs-specific exercises to get a really defined stomach:

http://www.sixpacknow.com/

 

[rockfella79]

Nice to see geeks doing starting strength, I was wrong to think geeks only sit on computers and tweak shit (coz I've done that for many years lol)

 

[whyalwaysme]

You definitely need to be doing core exercises, especially if you are sitting a desk all day long. Do core exercises at the beginning of your workout and at the end. You can also use a wobble board or swiss ball(yoga ball) to make your exercises more challenging.

For example, instead of doing bench press all the time, lie back on a swiss ball, ensure it's just your shoulders on the ball and bend your knees at 90 degrees. Now grab a set of dumbbells and do presses on the ball. This will engage your core so you are working both abs and chest at the same time

Good luck

 

[rockfella79]

Reverse hypers are very good to strengthen low back. Louis Simmons and many power lifters swear by it. I have a home made reverse hyper.

You definitely need to be doing core exercises, especially if you are sitting a desk all day long. Do core exercises at the beginning of your workout and at the end. You can also use a wobble board or swiss ball(yoga ball) to make your exercises more challenging.

For example, instead of doing bench press all the time, lie back on a swiss ball, ensure it's just your shoulders on the ball and bend your knees at 90 degrees. Now grab a set of dumbbells and do presses on the ball. This will engage your core so you are working both abs and chest at the same time

Good luck