Starting Strength + Cutting Question

[dmw16]

I have been doing the Starting Strength for about a month now and I've been very happy with my strength increase.

However, I decided I want to drop a little weight about 2 weeks back so I've been cutting back on calories and keeping it to smaller meals during the way (which I typically do anyway).

I want to go from ~205 to about 190-195. I've found much lower to not be sustainable and I have a larger frame etc so that seems to be a good weight.

Anyway, I've been using the LoseIt! app on my iPhone to suggest calorie targets to drop ~2lbs a week. So I am shooting for about 1770 calories a day and it seems to be working. I'm down about 3lbs so I'm pretty well on track.

My question is this; as I've been trying to drop pounds I've still been lifting twice a week (yes, starting strength is a 3 day a week program but schedule prevents that) and doing cardio twice a week. I have also been sticking with increasing my weight every time I lift which is what Starting Strength program calls for.

Is this the right thing to do? I've noticed a lot slower recovery and I have not been able to complete all my reps in all my sets over the past 2 weeks.

So should I be sticking with the weight I'm doing and wait till I get to the weight I want before trying to put on my strength/muscle?

 

[zebano]

Does the app take into account your extra calories burnt while lifting or is it basing it's calculations on a sedentary lifestyle? Recovery is always worse for me when running a caloric deficit and I never add weight, I just try and maintain.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

It really depends on your weight. 1800 calories is pretty low if you're a smaller guy. Have you read the fat loss sticky? You don't wanna be below your basal metabolic rate because your recovery will slow down to a standstill practically. Also, 2 pounds/week is pushing it a bit and you will undoubtedly lose muscle at that rate. If you slow it down to be at a net deficit of about 500 calories a day, you should lose around a pound of week of nearly all fat. Check out the sticky. This stuff is explained there.

 

[katank]

1770 calories/day sounds pretty low for a 200 lb guy. Pretty sure that's not taking into account the lifting that you are doing. SC is right in that it may shut down your metabolism.

BTW, you may want to consider CrossFit for cutting. I had better success cutting on that than Starting Strength. Don't expect to make much progress on a deficit, that's what a bulk cycle is for. As for starting strength, it certainly feels much better when on a calorific surplus like GOMAD (gallon of milk a day).

 

[KoolDrew]

Usually the goal during a cut is mainly to maintain strength, as many find they usually don't add strength while in a deficit. In fact, many end up losing a bit of strength. However, since you've only been doing the program for a month, you should still be able to make strength gains regardless. I would suggest raising calories just a bit as SociallyChallenged mentioned and aim for 1-1.5lb lost a week. Also, how high is your protein intake? A high protein intake is extremely important on a cut to prevent muscle as well as strength loss. Also, what bodyfat % are you at, or perhaps an estimate?

You really want to do all you can do to prevent strength loss in the gym while cutting, as it generally will result in muscle loss. If you're able to, adding strength would be ideal; however, it's not always going to happen. Also, lifting 2x a week is fine since they are full body workouts. It gives you more recovery time which is important on a cut, more time for cardio, and is plenty for maintaining strength and lean tissue.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: katank
1770 calories/day sounds pretty low for a 200 lb guy. Pretty sure that's not taking into account the lifting that you are doing. SC is right in that it may shut down your metabolism.

BTW, you may want to consider CrossFit for cutting. I had better success cutting on that than Starting Strength. Don't expect to make much progress on a deficit, that's what a bulk cycle is for. As for starting strength, it certainly feels much better when on a calorific surplus like GOMAD (gallon of milk a day).

The actual cutting program doesn't actually matter. Crossfit, I feel, would take an even HIGHER toll on his body while he is in the cutting process. But yeah, I didn't notice he was 200 pounds. OP, you really should up your calories. Even I, a 155 pound guy, was taking in more than 1800 calories while cutting.

 

[KoolDrew]

I usually cut at around 2500 calories. However, it's very hard to determine an optimal calorie intake just by weight alone. Daily activity and a bunch of other things come into play, which is why I just suggest monitoring your weight and making changes accordingly. Try to aim for 1-1.5lb lost a week. If it's anymore, raise calories a bit. If it's not enough, lower them. Most people end up between 10-12 calories per pound. However, I have seen some people have to bring it a bit lower. Alternatively, you could increase activity as well and often it may actually be a better idea rather than lowering calories even more. This is mainly an issue with smaller individuals though, mainly women.

 

[katank]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
The actual cutting program doesn't actually matter. Crossfit, I feel, would take an even HIGHER toll on his body while he is in the cutting process. But yeah, I didn't notice he was 200 pounds. OP, you really should up your calories. Even I, a 155 pound guy, was taking in more than 1800 calories while cutting.

Agreed. It would certainly take a bigger toll. I honestly felt better upping the activity level while taking less of a caloric deficit.

I don't know what his usual intake is but a sudden drop of a few hundred calories might be more jarring for recovery than otherwise.

Also, Crossfit's combination of metcon+slightly lighter weights w/ emphasis on power might be more suitable for cutting. It's also doubtful that he'll lose much strength on Crossfit. I personally set a few PRs this week after cutting for a few weeks on Crossfit.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: dmw16
Anyway, I've been using the LoseIt! app on my iPhone to suggest calorie targets to drop ~2lbs a week. So I am shooting for about 1770 calories a day and it seems to be working. I'm down about 3lbs so I'm pretty well on track.

As others have mentioned, 2lbs per week is a bit too much for someone your weight and will often result in loss of muscle & strength. Up your calories so you're losing 1-1.5lbs per week and you'll probably feel much better.

Originally posted by: dmw16
Is this the right thing to do? I've noticed a lot slower recovery and I have not been able to complete all my reps in all my sets over the past 2 weeks.

Did you actually get & read the book? If so, you would've known that you do NOT increase the weight until you complete all sets & reps, with proper form, at your current weight.

 

[soccerballtux]

How do I go about counting calories? How many calories is one egg? A banana? A Moe's burrito? A piece of pizza?

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
How do I go about counting calories? How many calories is one egg? A banana? A Moe's burrito? A piece of pizza?

First, read the fat loss sticky. Then, visit sites like fitday.com and thedailyplate.com.

 

[soccerballtux]

I've read it, did a while ago. It doesn't say how to count calories. Calories due to fat. Due to carbs. How to go about estimating how much I'm eating.
I'll check out the other links though. Thanks!

 

[dmw16]

You can find calories in a lot of foods via google.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I do take into account my lifting (as best I can) so if I'm shooting for 1800cal and burn 500 working out I actually intake 2300. Maybe I'll cut back on my rate and go for 1-1.5lbs/week.

As for protein, I get about 150g a day.

 

[KoolDrew]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
I've read it, did a while ago. It doesn't say how to count calories. Calories due to fat. Due to carbs. How to go about estimating how much I'm eating.
I'll check out the other links though. Thanks!

If the nutrition facts are on the label it's very easy. If not, there's plenty of sources online to find the nutrition facts. I use thedailyplate to log all my food, which has a pretty large database of foods.

 

[KoolDrew]

As for protein, I get about 150g a day.

You should really be aiming for 1g per pound of bodyweight at least. I usually get around 240+ grams at around your weight. However, bodyfat% and other things play a factor (the leaner you are the more LBM loss becomes an issue). So I say up your protein intake to 200g while also increasing calories just a tad to allow 1-1.5lbs lost and see how that works out for you.

 

[KingGheedora]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
I've read it, did a while ago. It doesn't say how to count calories. Calories due to fat. Due to carbs. How to go about estimating how much I'm eating.
I'll check out the other links though. Thanks!

This comes directly from the fat loss sticky:

The second thing you want to do is utilize your knowledge of your BMR and keep a detailed record of your diet. You want to keep a record of your diet because, even if you're eating the right foods but are eating TOO MUCH, you're still going to gain weight. There are websites that you can do this on, such as fitday.com or the nutrition section of sparkpeople.com (which I find has a larger database of foods). These sites will often tell you what % of your calories is coming from the 3 sources - either protein, fat, or carbohydrates. The source of your calories is very important.

 

[Patt]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

As for protein, I get about 150g a day.

You should really be aiming for 1g per pound of bodyweight at least. I usually get around 240+ grams at around your weight. However, bodyfat% and other things play a factor (the leaner you are the more LBM loss becomes an issue). So I say up your protein intake to 200g while also increasing calories just a tad to allow 1-1.5lbs lost and see how that works out for you.

OK, seriously, how can you up your protein so radically? Is it all supplements that you're doing this with? I'm doing Starting Strength right now too, weigh about 230, and I struggle to get 150g/day, even with supplements.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: Patt

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

As for protein, I get about 150g a day.

You should really be aiming for 1g per pound of bodyweight at least. I usually get around 240+ grams at around your weight. However, bodyfat% and other things play a factor (the leaner you are the more LBM loss becomes an issue). So I say up your protein intake to 200g while also increasing calories just a tad to allow 1-1.5lbs lost and see how that works out for you.

OK, seriously, how can you up your protein so radically? Is it all supplements that you're doing this with? I'm doing Starting Strength right now too, weigh about 230, and I struggle to get 150g/day, even with supplements.

Easiest way I've found is to eat 4-6 meals a day and ensure each meal has 35-50 grams of protein. If you're cutting, you may find this list of low calorie, high protein foods useful. Since protein usually provides more satiety than carbs, the changes you make to your diet to get more protein may actually speed up the weight loss process. I'd highly recommend getting the VAST majority of your protein from whole foods. Cottage cheese, poultry and fish can make this surprisingly easy. However, if you're still struggling, adding in a protein shake once a day can help.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: Patt

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

As for protein, I get about 150g a day.

You should really be aiming for 1g per pound of bodyweight at least. I usually get around 240+ grams at around your weight. However, bodyfat% and other things play a factor (the leaner you are the more LBM loss becomes an issue). So I say up your protein intake to 200g while also increasing calories just a tad to allow 1-1.5lbs lost and see how that works out for you.

OK, seriously, how can you up your protein so radically? Is it all supplements that you're doing this with? I'm doing Starting Strength right now too, weigh about 230, and I struggle to get 150g/day, even with supplements.

Really? When I was bulking, I was getting nearly 240g of protein a day at 155 pounds of body weight. Nearly everything I eat has protein in it - eggs, milk, bacon, peas, kidney beans, black beans, cheese, chicken, tuna, turkey, beef, peanut butter, veggies, fruits. I did do the protein shake thing twice a day, but that usually only resulted in about 60g of protein.

My easiest weight-gaining recipe was a tuna melt: 1 piece of bread, 1 can of tuna, 2 pieces of cheese, 2 eggs with a glass of milk. That resulted in about 900 calories (bread - 120, tuna - 200, cheese - 200, eggs - 120, milk - 300). All of these things have a significant amount of protein in them.

 

[Lamont Burns]

I am technically bulking, and I find it easy to get to about 190, and use a single protein shake to get me to 240 grams. I'm 6'5", weigh 215. Milk, Chicken, Peanut Butter, Protein Powder, Eggs, Cheese, and cans of tuna mainly.

I find it much, much harder to get in the carbs I need, than protein... and I still need more protein, too.

 

[Patt]

I think part of my issue is that my family has a long history of high cholesterol and heart disease, so I don't eat a ton of meat, or eggs and even limit dairy as I have had high BP and cholesterol in the recent past.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: Patt
I think part of my issue is that my family has a long history of high cholesterol and heart disease, so I don't eat a ton of meat, or eggs and even limit dairy as I have had high BP and cholesterol in the recent past.

Eat all the eggs you want. Dietary cholesterol affects your serum cholesterol levels very little. Saturated fat affects it the most. You can fix that by eating lean protein sources like chicken and fish. If you have high BP now, lower your sodium content. These are all fixable things, my friend

 

[dealmaster00]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: Patt
I think part of my issue is that my family has a long history of high cholesterol and heart disease, so I don't eat a ton of meat, or eggs and even limit dairy as I have had high BP and cholesterol in the recent past.

Eat all the eggs you want. Dietary cholesterol affects your serum cholesterol levels very little. Saturated fat affects it the most. You can fix that by eating lean protein sources like chicken and fish. If you have high BP now, lower your sodium content. These are all fixable things, my friend

this. 4 oz chicken breast = 32g protein, negligible amount of cholesterol/fat (I eat chicken breast about 4/6 meals a day, good stuff).

 

[mchammer187]

Originally posted by: Patt

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

As for protein, I get about 150g a day.

You should really be aiming for 1g per pound of bodyweight at least. I usually get around 240+ grams at around your weight. However, bodyfat% and other things play a factor (the leaner you are the more LBM loss becomes an issue). So I say up your protein intake to 200g while also increasing calories just a tad to allow 1-1.5lbs lost and see how that works out for you.

OK, seriously, how can you up your protein so radically? Is it all supplements that you're doing this with? I'm doing Starting Strength right now too, weigh about 230, and I struggle to get 150g/day, even with supplements.

I usually eat about 3-4 eggs a day
and milk (half gallon a day)

this alone is 100g
1 shake with 2 scoops of whey protein is 45g

145g-190g of protein right there


usually I'll have at least one of the following for dinner

salmon (~40g per 6 oz)
roasted chicken (~60g per 1/4 chicken)
93% lean ground beef (~25g per 1/4 lb raw)
ribeye steak (120g per 1 lb)
pork chop (30g per)
tuna (40g per can)

pretty much all of these foods will have at 4g or more protein per 1g of fat so eat away

provided you don't eat the fat and stick to the meat parts (for steak/chops)

as for snacks

cottage cheese
beef jerky (usually 10-12 g of protein per 1g of fat if you get a decent brand)
peanut butter
wheat germ

 

[KoolDrew]

Originally posted by: Patt

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

As for protein, I get about 150g a day.

You should really be aiming for 1g per pound of bodyweight at least. I usually get around 240+ grams at around your weight. However, bodyfat% and other things play a factor (the leaner you are the more LBM loss becomes an issue). So I say up your protein intake to 200g while also increasing calories just a tad to allow 1-1.5lbs lost and see how that works out for you.

OK, seriously, how can you up your protein so radically? Is it all supplements that you're doing this with? I'm doing Starting Strength right now too, weigh about 230, and I struggle to get 150g/day, even with supplements.

A max of around 80g a day come from shakes and that's when I was aiming for ~280g.