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Starter dying?

S

Sukhoi

Elite Member
Car is a '95 Corolla with the 1.6L. My batter is only 1.5 years old so I don't expect it is the problem. I've never had any trouble starting it until Friday. On Friday I turned the key, and got nothing on the first try. No noise, no nothing other than the usual lights that come up on the dash when you turn the key to on. So I turned the car back off, then tried starting again. This time I held the key to start for a little bit and it started after 2-3 seconds. It wasn't like it was cranking slowly that whole time...there was no noise and then all of a sudden it started like normal. The rest of the day it started fine.

Yesterday I went to start it, and again got nothing. Though this time I noticed when I turn the key to start there is a loud click and then silence. So I tried starting again a couple times, just got the click, and on maybe the 3rd try I held it to start and then it started after a 2-3 second delay.

Is this probably the solenoid dying? I'm surprised it just came out of nowhere like that. On my car could there be a separate relay somewhere that needs replaced which I could do easily, or does the whole starter assembly need replaced? Thanks!!

Edit: See below...apparently was the battery. But now does that mean I have a short?
 
Possibilities:

- Burnt portion of the starter's armature. This would cause a "click" sound, but no start only occasionally. Can sometimes be gotten around by whacking the starter with a hammer. (This is not recommended as a long-term solution.)
- Loose battery cable. Could be causing an iffy connection.
- Flaky ignition switch not always connecting right for the "Start" position.

My bet is on the ignition switch, but I can't be 100% sure.

It's not the battery. If the battery were bad, it would struggle all the time, not start just fine once it's able to crank.

ZV
 
The battery cables are nice and tight. Very minor corrosion/gooiness on the connections but overall the studs are pretty clean.

So you don't think it's the solenoid dying? I was hoping it isn't the ignition switch dying...that seems like a PITA to replace, no?

I just went out and tried starting it again. Twice got the single click and no starting/other noise no matter how long I held the key to start. Third time it started right away.
 
Oh man, this exact thing happened with my '96 Accord (now my brother's car). It did it very infrequently but always started after a few tries for a while, but eventually it simply wouldn't work at all.

The connection between the ignition switch and the starter motor was loose. That's why you're not hearing ANYTHING when you turn the key. Because it does it intermittently, it may be simply a loose solder connection that cuts in and out.

It was not expensive to fix at all. The total bill was only a bit over $200 and that included a $150 AC recharge as well, so it may well be under $100 to get it fixed.
 
Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Oh man, this exact thing happened with my '96 Accord (now my brother's car). It did it very infrequently but always started after a few tries for a while, but eventually it simply wouldn't work at all.

The connection between the ignition switch and the starter motor was loose. That's why you're not hearing ANYTHING when you turn the key. Because it does it intermittently, it may be simply a loose solder connection that cuts in and out.

It was not expensive to fix at all. The total bill was only a bit over $200 and that included a $150 AC recharge as well, so it may well be under $100 to get it fixed.
Click to expand...

Hmm actually thinking about it maybe it's not the ignition switch. I always get something when I turn the key to start. It either just gives me one click, or it actually starts. If I had a bad connection in the switch wouldn't I get nothing at all instead of a click?

Good to hear it was cheap though. If I can pinpoint it to the switch it should be something I can do myself...I don't want to deal with the starter at the moment and I'd take it to a shop for that.
 
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Oh man, this exact thing happened with my '96 Accord (now my brother's car). It did it very infrequently but always started after a few tries for a while, but eventually it simply wouldn't work at all.

The connection between the ignition switch and the starter motor was loose. That's why you're not hearing ANYTHING when you turn the key. Because it does it intermittently, it may be simply a loose solder connection that cuts in and out.

It was not expensive to fix at all. The total bill was only a bit over $200 and that included a $150 AC recharge as well, so it may well be under $100 to get it fixed.
Click to expand...

Hmm actually thinking about it maybe it's not the ignition switch. I always get something when I turn the key to start. It either just gives me one click, or it actually starts. If I had a bad connection in the switch wouldn't I get nothing at all instead of a click?

Good to hear it was cheap though. If I can pinpoint it to the switch it should be something I can do myself...I don't want to deal with the starter at the moment and I'd take it to a shop for that.
Click to expand...

If you're getting the click, it's not the ignition switch. The clicking sound is the solenoid engaging. There are, normally, two ways to get the click:

- Not enough power to the starter (solenoid takes only a little juice to click on).
- Burnt spot on the starter armature.

You're probably looking at needing a new starter, or at least having the current starter rebuilt. Have it tested to be sure, but that's what it sounds like based on the symptoms and assuming that you're correct about the battery connections.

ZV
 
When it doesn't start, use a big crowbar or wrench and hit the starter. Crude, but it worked for me.
You still have to get a new starter though.
 
Originally posted by: zoiks
When it doesn't start, use a big crowbar or wrench and hit the starter. Crude, but it worked for me.
You still have to get a new starter though.
Click to expand...

Very, very important addendum: When doing this, do NOT contact the leads that run into the starter from the battery. It's possible to weld the crowbar to the solenoid. Not that I've ever done something like that...

ZV
 
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: zoiks
When it doesn't start, use a big crowbar or wrench and hit the starter. Crude, but it worked for me.
You still have to get a new starter though.
Click to expand...

Very, very important addendum: When doing this, do NOT contact the leads that run into the starter from the battery. It's possible to weld the crowbar to the solenoid. Not that I've ever done something like that...

ZV
Click to expand...

:laugh:

I ended up taking my car to the shop down the street. Took me probably 10 tries to actually get it started...I was worried. Who knew that Wheel Works actually does all sorts of other car work? The one I can walk to had a bunch of good reviews on Yelp so hopefully they won't screw me over.
 
This is weird. So Wheel Works tested the alternator and starter to find both good. They then found the battery was low on cranking amps. So I had my battery replaced for a freaking $155 total. If I only I didn't have a job interview all afternoon and I actually could have tested things like I should have.

Now, why the heck was my 1.5 year old battery dead? Is it possible/probable that I have a short somewhere? The new battery definitely doesn't crank as well as the old one did before the problem, but maybe it was just a bit dead from sitting on the shelf. I'm going to wait and take a drive tomorrow before I take it back complaining about the new battery.

How can I test for a short when the car is off? I'm not too versed on what to test grounded to what, etc. I do have a multimeter. 🙂
 
Where do you live? Here in AZ batteries die constantly from the heat.

If it comes back I would pull your starter and replace it. Also, your local auto parts store should test your starter for free. If you can jack up your car you should be able to replace a starter, as long as the bolts aren't rusty it's pretty easy. If in doubt, get a Haynes manual.
 
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
This is weird. So Wheel Works tested the alternator and starter to find both good. They then found the battery was low on cranking amps. So I had my battery replaced for a freaking $155 total. If I only I didn't have a job interview all afternoon and I actually could have tested things like I should have.

Now, why the heck was my 1.5 year old battery dead? Is it possible/probable that I have a short somewhere? The new battery definitely doesn't crank as well as the old one did before the problem, but maybe it was just a bit dead from sitting on the shelf. I'm going to wait and take a drive tomorrow before I take it back complaining about the new battery.

How can I test for a short when the car is off? I'm not too versed on what to test grounded to what, etc. I do have a multimeter. 🙂
Click to expand...

If the engine was cranking normally when it started, then the issue was NOT the battery. You got taken. If your battery was down on amps, it would have been cranking slowly.

There's also no real test for a burnt armature aside from taking the starter apart and inspecting it. The starter may work fine 99 times when it doesn't just happen to stop on a bad spot.

ZV
 
I'm in San Jose...it hasn't been all that hot. And actually while on Friday it did seem to start normally on that 2nd try, today it was going kind of slow.

I just did a short check, and sure enough the dome light circuit was pulling over 250 mA (max of my tester). The only thing I can possibly think of that would be pulling power is the internal clock on my radio (not sure which circuit it's on), but I can't imagine that would be 250 mA. As soon as I pulled the fuse the amperage through the battery dropped to zero. Did one of the door switches for the light probably short?
 
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
This is weird. So Wheel Works tested the alternator and starter to find both good. They then found the battery was low on cranking amps. So I had my battery replaced for a freaking $155 total. If I only I didn't have a job interview all afternoon and I actually could have tested things like I should have.

Now, why the heck was my 1.5 year old battery dead? Is it possible/probable that I have a short somewhere? The new battery definitely doesn't crank as well as the old one did before the problem, but maybe it was just a bit dead from sitting on the shelf. I'm going to wait and take a drive tomorrow before I take it back complaining about the new battery.

How can I test for a short when the car is off? I'm not too versed on what to test grounded to what, etc. I do have a multimeter. 🙂
Click to expand...

If the engine was cranking normally when it started, then the issue was NOT the battery. You got taken. If your battery was down on amps, it would have been cranking slowly.

There's also no real test for a burnt armature aside from taking the starter apart and inspecting it. The starter may work fine 99 times when it doesn't just happen to stop on a bad spot.

ZV
Click to expand...

I'm back to thinking it's the starter and I'm going to go yell at Wheel Works as soon as I get it fixed. I finally barely got it started by jumping it Tuesday night, and drive it for about 30 mins thinking that would be the end of it. Oh I also found the short and got rid of it, but I think that was a separate issue. Now even after buying a battery charger and charging the new battery all night it won't even come close to starting.

I tried whacking the starter to no avail. Time to jump or tow it to a shop tomorrow I guess.
 
I had a similar situation with my '96 Sentra. Turned the key and nothing. Was completely dead. Used Voltmeter to check battery and it was good. Replaced started and it all works now. I am 100% sure it's the started that's causing you trouble.
 
Yeah I'm pretty sure it's the starter now...there's not much else it could be. Stupid short leading me astray for a couple days. 😛
 
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