StarCraft II: WoL slipping to 2010?

[evident]

this is the same bitching and moaning that we've heard for starcraft, warcraft 3, diablo II. every time, blizzard delivered, although late, but have they ever disappointed?

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

I left for a couple years, played other stuff and came back to it because it's still better than anything else out there. WoW absolutely will die some day, it just won't be anytime soon.

Never said it was about to die, was pointing out that they clearly have no creative talent left working on it. The game's main focus at this point seems to be mini games that would be laughed at for the most mediocre of compilations. I'm not saying WoW is going to die soon, but clearly they don't care if real gamers play anymore or not- that eventually will have an impact on the more casual players. I was playing WoW for many years, saw it go through all sorts of ups and downs, at this point it has been driven off a cliff. This seemed to coincide with their increased efforts on SC2, D3 and their next gen MMO- Blizzard clearly has scraped the bottom of the barrel for development at this point and it just milking out the cash until it collapses. Their userbase collapsing faster then any MMOs in history is testament to the level of effort they are putting into the game atm.

As far as it being better then anything else out there- watching paint dry is more entertaining at this point. WoW is terrible in all aspects at this point- leveling, crafting, end game raiding/questing/"heroics", pvp- all of them are terrible. Blizzard clearly can make flat out horrible games, WoW is absolute proof of this. It is also clear the talent they have that makes really good games must be working on other projects which is encouraging for their upcoming titles.

But WoW did not start out horrible, as you yourself have attested to.

WoW is by no means a terrible game. the genre itself awful, but the game is very well polished and i enjoyed leveling up to level 60. they did a good job for a brainless, timesucking skill-less genre like MMOs. definitely the shortest time i've ever spent playing a blizzard game though (only for about 4 months)

 

[Koudelka]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

World of Warcraft can print its own money, so I have no doubt that Blizzard staffs that team accordingly to keep those masses quite happy.

From the latest direction WoW is taking I think Blizzard found some half dead bum behind a dumpster who had suffered severe brain damage from excessive alcohol intake and put him in charge of development. Latest estimates have WoW's sub base going from 12million to ~5Million in the matter of six months- at this point I'm sure a huge portion of the userbase is still playing out of habit, I have a hard time seeing how anyone can call the current content anything resembling 'good'.

This should bode well for SC2 honestly, clearly Blizzard has noone with an ounce of creative talent left on the WoW team.

WoW has finally reached that moment in time where its starting to die off. My wife still plays it but i wont touch it.

She keeps telling me about all the changes they're making in the patches. They're DESPERATELY trying to make the game as noob/new character friendly as they can. Which is basically a red siren going off saying they're losing a lot of customers, and not as many new players coming in.

WoW will still have its core base, but numbers are going to keep dropping. And with half a dozen MMO's coming out very soon, a few of them actually looking promising, their numbers should drop even more.

I give it another 1-2 years before we see another MMO top WoW with most subscribers.

 

[Glitchny]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

World of Warcraft can print its own money, so I have no doubt that Blizzard staffs that team accordingly to keep those masses quite happy.

From the latest direction WoW is taking I think Blizzard found some half dead bum behind a dumpster who had suffered severe brain damage from excessive alcohol intake and put him in charge of development. Latest estimates have WoW's sub base going from 12million to ~5Million in the matter of six months- at this point I'm sure a huge portion of the userbase is still playing out of habit, I have a hard time seeing how anyone can call the current content anything resembling 'good'.

This should bode well for SC2 honestly, clearly Blizzard has noone with an ounce of creative talent left on the WoW team.

lol maybe you should learn what you are talking about. The sub base went down to 5-6million because ALL 6million chinese users got shutdown when they switched publishers has nothing to do with the game itself. The current release is going through chinese government review before coming back online.

And I seem to have a good time when I play WoW, oh well.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

I left for a couple years, played other stuff and came back to it because it's still better than anything else out there. WoW absolutely will die some day, it just won't be anytime soon.

Never said it was about to die, was pointing out that they clearly have no creative talent left working on it. The game's main focus at this point seems to be mini games that would be laughed at for the most mediocre of compilations. I'm not saying WoW is going to die soon, but clearly they don't care if real gamers play anymore or not- that eventually will have an impact on the more casual players. I was playing WoW for many years, saw it go through all sorts of ups and downs, at this point it has been driven off a cliff. This seemed to coincide with their increased efforts on SC2, D3 and their next gen MMO- Blizzard clearly has scraped the bottom of the barrel for development at this point and it just milking out the cash until it collapses. Their userbase collapsing faster then any MMOs in history is testament to the level of effort they are putting into the game atm.

As far as it being better then anything else out there- watching paint dry is more entertaining at this point. WoW is terrible in all aspects at this point- leveling, crafting, end game raiding/questing/"heroics", pvp- all of them are terrible. Blizzard clearly can make flat out horrible games, WoW is absolute proof of this. It is also clear the talent they have that makes really good games must be working on other projects which is encouraging for their upcoming titles.

But WoW did not start out horrible, as you yourself have attested to.

WoW is by no means a terrible game. the genre itself awful, but the game is very well polished and i enjoyed leveling up to level 60. they did a good job for a brainless, timesucking skill-less genre like MMOs. definitely the shortest time i've ever spent playing a blizzard game though (only for about 4 months)

That was my point. For an MMO, WOW was a very good game. For an MMO...

 

[evident]

seriously anyone who plays an MMO needs help. i still don't understand what's so rewarding about them. i'd rather pwn/ get pwned in an FPS or RTS where theres some critical twitch reflexes / strategy. at least diablo series is finite and doesn't suck a retarded amount of time, but that's for a different thread :beer:

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: Koudelka

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

World of Warcraft can print its own money, so I have no doubt that Blizzard staffs that team accordingly to keep those masses quite happy.

From the latest direction WoW is taking I think Blizzard found some half dead bum behind a dumpster who had suffered severe brain damage from excessive alcohol intake and put him in charge of development. Latest estimates have WoW's sub base going from 12million to ~5Million in the matter of six months- at this point I'm sure a huge portion of the userbase is still playing out of habit, I have a hard time seeing how anyone can call the current content anything resembling 'good'.

This should bode well for SC2 honestly, clearly Blizzard has noone with an ounce of creative talent left on the WoW team.

WoW has finally reached that moment in time where its starting to die off. My wife still plays it but i wont touch it.

She keeps telling me about all the changes they're making in the patches. They're DESPERATELY trying to make the game as noob/new character friendly as they can. Which is basically a red siren going off saying they're losing a lot of customers, and not as many new players coming in.

WoW will still have its core base, but numbers are going to keep dropping. And with half a dozen MMO's coming out very soon, a few of them actually looking promising, their numbers should drop even more.

I give it another 1-2 years before we see another MMO top WoW with most subscribers.

You're right... It will be the next blizz mmo.

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: evident
seriously anyone who plays an MMO needs help. i still don't understand what's so rewarding about them. i'd rather pwn/ get pwned in an FPS or RTS where theres some critical twitch reflexes / strategy. at least diablo series is finite and doesn't suck a retarded amount of time, but that's for a different thread :beer:

I know someone thats never off of WoW and he plays it because hes crap at FPS and RTS, well not crap but just dosent learn or adapt or get better over time. A hopeless gamer, so he plays WoW.

 

[Glitchny]

Originally posted by: Maximilian

Originally posted by: evident
seriously anyone who plays an MMO needs help. i still don't understand what's so rewarding about them. i'd rather pwn/ get pwned in an FPS or RTS where theres some critical twitch reflexes / strategy. at least diablo series is finite and doesn't suck a retarded amount of time, but that's for a different thread :beer:

I know someone thats never off of WoW and he plays it because hes crap at FPS and RTS, well not crap but just dosent learn or adapt or get better over time. A hopeless gamer, so he plays WoW.

there is some strategy in WoW, but not a ton. I got pretty burnt out on FPS computer games and RTS games so WoW is a fun diversion to play with friends. Different people like different games, doesn't mean they are "hopeless gamers"

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: Glitchny

Originally posted by: Maximilian

Originally posted by: evident
seriously anyone who plays an MMO needs help. i still don't understand what's so rewarding about them. i'd rather pwn/ get pwned in an FPS or RTS where theres some critical twitch reflexes / strategy. at least diablo series is finite and doesn't suck a retarded amount of time, but that's for a different thread :beer:

I know someone thats never off of WoW and he plays it because hes crap at FPS and RTS, well not crap but just dosent learn or adapt or get better over time. A hopeless gamer, so he plays WoW.

there is some strategy in WoW, but not a ton. I got pretty burnt out on FPS computer games and RTS games so WoW is a fun diversion to play with friends. Different people like different games, doesn't mean they are "hopeless gamers"

man, what's sad was the level of play with most players i encountered when playing wow. lvl 60's w/ epic mounts, uber items from raids, and i could still take them out in a duel and i had the crappiest gear. not trying to toot my own horn, but people sank 1000x the hours into that game than me and still can't figure out how to duel? hopeless gamers if you ask me.

i'm not saying i am uber at fps or rts either, but they are much more rewarding to play.

 

[Dumac]

I would rather them take their time to deliver a decent product than ship some half-finished and bug ridden mess out the door for some quick $$.

This isn't like DNF. They are putting serious effort towards developing these games, and we have seen the results. These product will come out eventually, so just find something to entertain you until that time comes.

I just hope that these new entries will be satisfactory...

 

[Dumac]

StarCraft II Officially Delayed To 2010

 

[QuantumPion]

As far as the death of WoW is concerned,

Way back in the day, UO was extremely popular and awesome. Until they split the game world into the PvP/Carebear realms. This completely killed the game and it immediately crapped out.

Yesterday I noticed that WoW was not only allowing you to transfer an ally character to horde, but you can also soon have ally and horde on the same server. They claim its to better allow friends to play together, but I just LMAO and thought of UO.

 

[BenSkywalker]

WoW is by no means a terrible game. the genre itself awful, but the game is very well polished and i enjoyed leveling up to level 60.

That's back when I had fun with WoW, obviously it has either been several years since you played, or you quit long before you got to level cap. By your later comments you clearly never cleared Naxx40. And four months to 60? For real? Even back when leveling to 60 was supposed to be time consuming it should only take a couple of weeks for a player of even moderate skills. What were you doing, single pulling mobs?

they did a good job for a brainless, timesucking skill-less genre like MMOs.

Take 24 of your top skilled buddies and go drop Mu'ru at level 70 in an eight hour session- just one boss. Saying that MMOs take no skill because you can level easily is akin to saying CounterStrike takes no skill because Half-Life is a cake walk(which obviously it is).

seriously anyone who plays an MMO needs help. i still don't understand what's so rewarding about them. i'd rather pwn/ get pwned in an FPS or RTS where theres some critical twitch reflexes / strategy

There were challenges in WoW, although not anymore really, far moreso then in the overwhelming majority of shooters which may require more reflexes, but overall significantly less strategy.

man, what's sad was the level of play with most players i encountered when playing wow. lvl 60's w/ epic mounts, uber items from raids, and i could still take them out in a duel and i had the crappiest gear. not trying to toot my own horn, but people sank 1000x the hours into that game than me and still can't figure out how to duel? hopeless gamers if you ask me.

There are many people that don't pvp in WoW, they play for PvE content which the game is overwhelmingly made for. Also, as is always the case with WoW what patch it is depends on how good your character is going to be in pvp content. I have been at the pinnacle of that curve and the bottom, skill is a factor, but is largely marginalized by Blizz's 'balance'. General example- 2.0-3.0 my druid lost a grand total of one duel ever(enhance shammy, lasted 15 minutes....), my mage got wrecked constantly. 3.0-a short while ago my druid got wtf destroyed by almost everyone while the mage was wiping the floor with almost everyone(DKs were a big problem and rogues if they could 100-0 me while stun locked)and the DK was utterly dominant- although less and less so with each patch). Still me playing, still the same toons, Blizz changed the balance of power around- that is a huge factor in 1v1. For the record, the enhance shammy the beat my druid, was terribad in raids, never saw him get much over 1K dps on any fight- but he was damn good at pvp.

The sub base went down to 5-6million because ALL 6million chinese users got shutdown when they switched publishers has nothing to do with the game itself.

You are still down millions of subs not including that chunk of non subscribers(Blizz wants to call them subs though, rather misleading but if it works one way, it works both). WoW was steadily increasing for years, now it is in free fall decline for user base. That is the reality of the current situation.

 

[zerocool84]

SC2 is coming out when AT goes VB.

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

WoW is by no means a terrible game. the genre itself awful, but the game is very well polished and i enjoyed leveling up to level 60.

That's back when I had fun with WoW, obviously it has either been several years since you played, or you quit long before you got to level cap. By your later comments you clearly never cleared Naxx40. And four months to 60? For real? Even back when leveling to 60 was supposed to be time consuming it should only take a couple of weeks for a player of even moderate skills. What were you doing, single pulling mobs?
dunno, but i started playing in april of 06(?) and got 60 around september with casual play. maybe not 4 months, but something pretty close to around there. and yes i didnt clear naxx40- i barely finished molten core. raids were never my thing since they would take hours upon hours to complete =\ and really made me lose interest. i played right before the expo came out and did lots of pvping at alterac valley. what put me over the edge was when i was about to get my epic mount for 100 gold, they changed it so i had to pay 800 gold for the riding skill =\ and made getting honor points completely useless.

they did a good job for a brainless, timesucking skill-less genre like MMOs.

Take 24 of your top skilled buddies and go drop Mu'ru at level 70 in an eight hour session- just one boss. Saying that MMOs take no skill because you can level easily is akin to saying CounterStrike takes no skill because Half-Life is a cake walk(which obviously it is).
didnt play the xpack, and playing for 8 hours on one boss isn't what i call fun, especially if its just toggling between skills and kiting and whatnot

seriously anyone who plays an MMO needs help. i still don't understand what's so rewarding about them. i'd rather pwn/ get pwned in an FPS or RTS where theres some critical twitch reflexes / strategy

There were challenges in WoW, although not anymore really, far moreso then in the overwhelming majority of shooters which may require more reflexes, but overall significantly less strategy.
i had fun doing battlegrounds and earning pvp gear that way, but the grind was just completely time consuming and then the patch before the expo completely wiped out all my effort, and i got fed up and quit.

man, what's sad was the level of play with most players i encountered when playing wow. lvl 60's w/ epic mounts, uber items from raids, and i could still take them out in a duel and i had the crappiest gear. not trying to toot my own horn, but people sank 1000x the hours into that game than me and still can't figure out how to duel? hopeless gamers if you ask me.

There are many people that don't pvp in WoW, they play for PvE content which the game is overwhelmingly made for. Also, as is always the case with WoW what patch it is depends on how good your character is going to be in pvp content. I have been at the pinnacle of that curve and the bottom, skill is a factor, but is largely marginalized by Blizz's 'balance'. General example- 2.0-3.0 my druid lost a grand total of one duel ever(enhance shammy, lasted 15 minutes....), my mage got wrecked constantly. 3.0-a short while ago my druid got wtf destroyed by almost everyone while the mage was wiping the floor with almost everyone(DKs were a big problem and rogues if they could 100-0 me while stun locked)and the DK was utterly dominant- although less and less so with each patch). Still me playing, still the same toons, Blizz changed the balance of power around- that is a huge factor in 1v1. For the record, the enhance shammy the beat my druid, was terribad in raids, never saw him get much over 1K dps on any fight- but he was damn good at pvp.

 

[I4AT]

I'm gonna say Summer 2010 at the earliest, this is Blizzard people. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was released Q1 2011.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

WoW is by no means a terrible game. the genre itself awful, but the game is very well polished and i enjoyed leveling up to level 60.

That's back when I had fun with WoW, obviously it has either been several years since you played, or you quit long before you got to level cap. By your later comments you clearly never cleared Naxx40. And four months to 60? For real? Even back when leveling to 60 was supposed to be time consuming it should only take a couple of weeks for a player of even moderate skills. What were you doing, single pulling mobs?
dunno, but i started playing in april of 06(?) and got 60 around september with casual play. maybe not 4 months, but something pretty close to around there. and yes i didnt clear naxx40- i barely finished molten core. raids were never my thing since they would take hours upon hours to complete =\ and really made me lose interest. i played right before the expo came out and did lots of pvping at alterac valley. what put me over the edge was when i was about to get my epic mount for 100 gold, they changed it so i had to pay 800 gold for the riding skill =\ and made getting honor points completely useless.

they did a good job for a brainless, timesucking skill-less genre like MMOs.

Take 24 of your top skilled buddies and go drop Mu'ru at level 70 in an eight hour session- just one boss. Saying that MMOs take no skill because you can level easily is akin to saying CounterStrike takes no skill because Half-Life is a cake walk(which obviously it is).
didnt play the xpack, and playing for 8 hours on one boss isn't what i call fun, especially if its just toggling between skills and kiting and whatnot

seriously anyone who plays an MMO needs help. i still don't understand what's so rewarding about them. i'd rather pwn/ get pwned in an FPS or RTS where theres some critical twitch reflexes / strategy

There were challenges in WoW, although not anymore really, far moreso then in the overwhelming majority of shooters which may require more reflexes, but overall significantly less strategy.
i had fun doing battlegrounds and earning pvp gear that way, but the grind was just completely time consuming and then the patch before the expo completely wiped out all my effort, and i got fed up and quit.

man, what's sad was the level of play with most players i encountered when playing wow. lvl 60's w/ epic mounts, uber items from raids, and i could still take them out in a duel and i had the crappiest gear. not trying to toot my own horn, but people sank 1000x the hours into that game than me and still can't figure out how to duel? hopeless gamers if you ask me.

There are many people that don't pvp in WoW, they play for PvE content which the game is overwhelmingly made for. Also, as is always the case with WoW what patch it is depends on how good your character is going to be in pvp content. I have been at the pinnacle of that curve and the bottom, skill is a factor, but is largely marginalized by Blizz's 'balance'. General example- 2.0-3.0 my druid lost a grand total of one duel ever(enhance shammy, lasted 15 minutes....), my mage got wrecked constantly. 3.0-a short while ago my druid got wtf destroyed by almost everyone while the mage was wiping the floor with almost everyone(DKs were a big problem and rogues if they could 100-0 me while stun locked)and the DK was utterly dominant- although less and less so with each patch). Still me playing, still the same toons, Blizz changed the balance of power around- that is a huge factor in 1v1. For the record, the enhance shammy the beat my druid, was terribad in raids, never saw him get much over 1K dps on any fight- but he was damn good at pvp.

WOW is a quality game for what it is, at least, judging by my friends and others I've known who've played it and watching them. I refused to get sucked into that game, not that I would, I'm terrible with MMOs. I basically refuse to even try any more MMOs because I know a month or two down the road, I won't be playing it anymore.

However, like I said, WOW is a polished game, however, it wasn't really revolutionary or anything spectacular. I think it was just the fact it was polished, was from Blizzard, and was Warcraft, it got a good initial following. That initial following is what does it, because if a game starts with a large following, it quickly picks up steam as others join on to see what its like, and it just keeps building. Add that with the fact that it is Blizzard and they kept the updates coming and the polish there, it is a fantastic success story for MMOs.

Though, it doesn't help I've always hated Warcraft. Couple that with the fact that I've really come to dislike the epic fantasy world style RPGs (side note: funny that the Final Fantasy series has really driven on a path of as little "epic fantasy" as possible for an RPG, tend to be very heavy plot, sci-fi, with other-worldliness thrown in for the typical RPG aspect).
I am, however, looking forward to hopefully Jumpgate: Evolution being a kickass MMO, mostly because its pure sci-fi, human based, very open-ended with class style, and all twitch-based.
Tabula Rasa had so much room for awesomeness, but completely dropped the ball, and I was very upset with that.

However, moving back to Blizzard and more on-topic:

any rumors about Diablo III release date yet? I basically could honestly care less about Starcraft II, but Diablo III otoh, stoked for that one.

 

[Bateluer]

Seriously, anyone not know that SC2 was going to be delayed? We're not going to see part one until Summer 2010, part 2 until 8 to 12 months after that, and part 3 sometime in 2013. Longer if they follow Valve's episodic model. Hopefully, someone at Blizzard will also wake up and add the crucial LAN plan function.

 

[TidusZ]

Who cares about SC2. Bring on the Diablo 3 news. WTB MOAR CHARACTER CLASS RELEASES. Can't wait for Blizzcon

 

[DougoMan]

:brokenheart:

I really want to start playing a good RTS game but it's such an investment of time that I want to know it will be good for 10+ years. I think I am going to start playing Starcraft I again to get warmed up. Are there still plenty of folks on Battle.net? I would think a lot of folks would be playing it again to get ready..

 

[StepUp]

If playing BW, expcet to see 40K+ plus at any given moment on US West. If you want to avoid playing hackers, I suggest ICCuP

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: DougoMan
:brokenheart:

I really want to start playing a good RTS game but it's such an investment of time that I want to know it will be good for 10+ years. I think I am going to start playing Starcraft I again to get warmed up. Are there still plenty of folks on Battle.net? I would think a lot of folks would be playing it again to get ready..

warcraft 3 is an ownage RTS w/ some great rpg elements added in and in my opinion way more fun than starcraft ::hides::

there are still tons of people playing SC and war3 on battlenet

 

[JackSpadesSI]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Anybody who has been a fan of Blizzard since the old days knows that Blizzard is notorious for missing their projected release dates. We're not talking by months...we're talking by years. Their games always turn out amazing, so I'm not worried.

I, too, have been a fan of Blizzard "since the old days". Since 1996 I've played and loved: Warcraft II: ToD, Diablo, StarCraft, StarCraft: BW, Diablo II, Diablo II: LoD, and Warcraft III. I remember painfully waiting for the release of Diablo II. But, that doesn't mean it is ok to mess with your loyal and paying customers. Why announce a game is coming out when it is three years out??

Originally posted by: Anubis
guess what


THEY HAVE 100% COMPLEATLY DIFFERENT DEV TEAMS

Read my second post in this thread. I hate when people post without reading the posts above them.

Originally posted by: ExarKun333
+1.

Thank you!

Originally posted by: Dumac
StarCraft II Officially Delayed To 2010

While that makes me REALLY sad, that is what I was ACTUALLY looking for in this thread. I don't know why people started attacking me saying that I hate Blizzard. Then there are people like Anubis who just attack without even reading anything.

Thank you for bearing the bad news, Dumac. And thanks for not going on and on and on about WoW.

Originally posted by: destrekor
I basically could honestly care less about Starcraft II, but Diablo III otoh, stoked for that one.

Originally posted by: TidusZ
Who cares about SC2. Bring on the Diablo 3 news [...] Can't wait for Blizzcon

While I care about StarCraft II: WoL, yeah my hidden agenda here was wondering about Diablo III since that won't come until after StarCraft II: WoL. Sigh, two weeks until BlizzCon.

Originally posted by: DougoMan
I think I am going to start playing Starcraft I again to get warmed up.

I already have!

 

[Anubis]

i read the 2nd post and all the other ones saying the same thing, i just felt your stupid ass needed to hear it again