StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm

[Zeze]

one thing that really annoys me is i can't select enemy units to get their HP. unless there's some setting you need to enable/disable.

I don't know why the hell this is disabled by default. It makes zero sense as it's a crucial part of assessing the enemy.

Go to options and look for it. It's there somewhere and I turned it back on ("enable selecting uncontrollable/enemy units").

 

[Farmer]

From the CD sleeve manual of SC1, I've always wondered what the original Zerg race was like. The game finally visits the origin and it's all just refreshingly entertaining. Again, I'm only about 6-7 missions in. But it's pretty good so far- especially compared to the absolutely pointless and garbage filler storyline of Wings of Liberty.

I'm a bit embarrassed that I remember this so clearly, but I couldn't actually play SC1 for 6 months after I bought it due to a computer problem (it was a 150MHz Pentium). I spent the time using the map editor and reading the manual:

Spoiler

Except, at least in the original SC1 manual, it said the Zerg on Zerus were essentially bugs that were "uplifted" by the Xel'Naga (the Xel'Naga were not presented as being malevolent), rapidly accelerating their evolution. The species was chosen due to their "purity in essence" as opposed to the "purity in form" that the Xel'Naga sought in the Protoss but had abandoned (don't know what this means, I had always interpreted this as an explanation of why the Zerg looked way more disgusting than the Toss). There was something about the Xel'Naga being disappointed in the individualism of the Protoss, and hence they created the Overmind as the sole conscious of the Zerg. The uplifted Zerg soon dominated the Zerus ecosystem and eventually became space-faring, overwhelming the Xel'Naga orbiting Zerus in the process (it stands to reason, then, that the Xel'Naga should have been incorporated into the Zerg, but SC2 kills this). The Zerg started traveling to different worlds, taking the strongest species from each world, mutating them to accentuate their strengths (i.e., converting them so they look like terrifying monsters), and incorporating them into the Zerg (for instance, the hydra, the muta, etc). Hence, the Borg-like "Zerg swarm" came into being. There was even a blurb in the manual about how hydras were herbivores on some grassy planet. This sort of motivates the Zerg and the Overmind for SC1 (not BW, which I thought was not as good as SC1 story wise, but certainly made a superior multiplayer game) and identifies the Zerg as the clear enemy, that is, their desire to destroy and assimilate the Terrans and Protoss is how they advance as a species. Not original, but at least convincing.

In other words, it flies in the face of SC1 lore to say that the primal zerg are somehow equivalent or more developed than the Xel'Naga zerg. It also makes no sense for there to be "primal" hydras and mutas. I also remember the SC1 lore indicating that Zerus was a barren, volcanic planet, making the unlifted zerg exceptionally hardy, as opposed to a lush jungle world. I honestly facepalmed when I saw this part of the campaign.

So, really, while I I think SC2 is a great multiplayer game and one of the best RTS ever made, both WoL and HotS campaigns are unbelievably shallow, cliched, and a shadow of what the SC1 story was. The absolutely gorgeous cinematics are their only saving grace.

 

[amddude]

Well stated.

 

[pwoz]

Possible the SC2 campaign is some attempt to distance themselves from the Tyranids from Warhammer 40k. Zerg are a pretty clear copy of the Tyranids and I think I remember Blizzard catching some flak about it in the past.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Farmer, you should go to a blizzcon and start reading from the SC1 manual and see what the reaction is to blizz ignoring its own lore

Spoiler

you could argue (though not very well) that not all xel naga zerg took to the overmind and that's how the primal came about. But otherwise I believe you are 100% correct

 

[Zeze]

Update:

About 13~ missions in now. More impressions:

1. They have the same upgrades from WoL- 2 workers for cost of 1 AND automated vaspene gas (doesn't require drones to mine). These two upgrades make the game INCREDIBLY easy. And these upgrades come early in the game too.

If you mine 4 gas geysers, that means you don't have to make 12 extra drones. That's savings of 600 minerals, 12 less drone climb & 12 free supply for your army later. Combined with the double drone upgrade, they make your base building exponentially faster. You will saturate all mineral fields and have 200/200 army in 5-7 minutes. And then you just steamroll the map.

I'm flying through them on Brutal difficulty.

2. As for units, rapid DPS range unit reigns supreme again, just like Marines in WoL. This is why people call this game Rangecraft. Hydralisk with the Frenzy upgrade (15 seconds of 50% attack speed) will absolutely tear through everyone. It's the perfect unit: ranged, all-purpose damage (without vs armor or vs light penalty), and in large numbers they mitigate their frailty. THIS makes ALL other units and their upgrades look utterly useless and gimmicky.

It's too easy. Just massing Mutalisk with the 6x bounce is OP too. After I finish the game, I plan on beating the game again with different & harder units.

Also the game has lots of Diablo-esque boss battles. In WoL or Warcraft 3, they were rare and gimmicky. But this expansion really nailed it. It's polished well and lots of fun.

Here's my review. I'm about 6 missions in.

I'll start with the bad.

The Bad:

I'm still angry that they have botched the wholesome SC1 lore. SC1 & BW had dialogue that was awesome, plot was engaging, and overall quality was... mature. Raynor swore to kill Kerrigan with his own hands after she's murdered everyone and his friends. She killed his personal friend Phoenix, made Tassadar sacrifice himself, murdered millions, and outright decimated an entire race's home planet- Aiur.

Now SC2 has retconned Raynor to somehow develop romance for Kerrigan- a complete 180. What the fuck? Raynor was a likable, down-to-earth bald guy. Suddenly he now has beautiful tuff of hair with a sexy bang coming down. Yes, this was all made evident in SC2 Wings of Liberty, but I'm still not over it when I played Heart of the Swarm. This bullshit hokey romantic banter between Raynor and Kerrigan made me cringe so hard. And when Raynor twirled her around and kissed her, it made my skin crawl out of sheer elementary awkwardness.

I will never forgive Blizzard for dumbing down the plot to pander to twelve year olds for mass appeal. It is now soulless and I can't take the game seriously.

The Good:

SC1's expansion didn't offer much 'technically'. Yes it perfected the game as the #1 eSports platform for nearly two decades. But for the single player experience (which is what I care about), they just added 2 tile sets (snow and dessert) and few new units. While it offered lots of levels and amazing story, it was the same old 'build and destroy the base' formula. And they tossed in few 'adventure' levels.

Now for SC2's expansion HOTS, I expected the similar 'lazy' approach for single player campaigns. Boy, I will gladly admit I was pleasantly surprised. If being a Triple-A title comes with its ugliness, it also comes with shining examples of good things. The game is just FUN. They added super customized single player experience with thoroughly different mechanics. I was impressed at the level where a larvae infiltrates the Protoss ship and continues to evolve. And the game has tremendous amount of dialogue and cut scenes. They are really progressing the story line and it has lots of lore material to finally move forward.

From the CD sleeve manual of SC1, I've always wondered what the original Zerg race was like. The game finally visits the origin and it's all just refreshingly entertaining. Again, I'm only about 6-7 missions in. But it's pretty good so far- especially compared to the absolutely pointless and garbage filler storyline of Wings of Liberty.

They did a good job and surprised a veteran RTS player like me. The genre may be getting tiresome, but HotS threw a breath of fresh air at it. One quick example is the Evolution Missions. Those are just plain fun in both storytelling and gameplay.

Verdict:

-Still suffers from shitty retconn of Raynor and Kerrigan
-Corny dialogue and voice acting
-Outside of the two protagonists, story is finally getting exciting
-Great new gameplay to the tired RTS formula
-Not all pandering to kids are bad, the console-style checkpoint system works perfectly into SC2, making the general experience seamless.

8.5/10 If it continues to surprise me, I may give it a 9 later.

I'd love to hear your thoughts and your own review. Do you agree/disagree with me?

 

[Zeze]

Spoiler

The Zerg started traveling to different worlds, taking the strongest species from each world, mutating them to accentuate their strengths (i.e., converting them so they look like terrifying monsters), and incorporating them into the Zerg (for instance, the hydra, the muta, etc). Hence, the Borg-like "Zerg swarm" came into being...

In other words, it flies in the face of SC1 lore to say that the primal zerg are somehow equivalent or more developed than the Xel'Naga zerg. It also makes no sense for there to be "primal" hydras and mutas. I also remember the SC1 lore indicating that Zerus was a barren, volcanic planet, making the unlifted zerg exceptionally hardy, as opposed to a lush jungle world. I honestly facepalmed when I saw this part of the campaign.

...both WoL and HotS campaigns are unbelievably shallow, cliched, and a shadow of what the SC1 story was. The absolutely gorgeous cinematics are their only saving grace.

You are absolutely right. I remember clearly now.

Spoiler

1. Zerg was a product of many different species assimilated across the galaxy. It doesn't make sense for Zerus planet to have Mutas, Zerglings, Hydras, and the entire sample of the warrior-class creatures in one planet.

2. Zergling was a harmless dune-runner called Zzgath or some shit, in the desert. Why is Zerus a lush jungle planet?

3. It was the Ultralisk that was an herbivore and docile (not Hydra)- kind of like an elephant. Then Zerg mutated from it into the raging siege beast we see today. But in Zerus, the primal Ultralisk is already an ape-like violent creature. Makes no sense.

If Blizzard 'carefully' retconned few things in WoL, now you know they blatantly shit on it and changed everything as they saw fit while staring directly at the fans.

A few more questions that are never explained. And they're not even nitpicking!!

1. Why did Kerrigan disappear for 4 years after BW? WTF did she do? What was her motive? In SC2:WoL, she comes back so god damn nonchalantly without any kind of explanation. What the fvck? The writers could've taken TEN minutes to come up with a half believable excuse.

2. Where the fvck is Xel'Naga? After 15 YEARS, I graduated from HS, college, and got a job and got engaged, we still see NOTHING about Xel'Naga. In WoL, all we see is another 'fallen one' that's not the real Xel'Naga and some haphazard Zerg/Protoss hybrid puke race.

 

[Maximilian]

I'm a bit embarrassed that I remember this so clearly, but I couldn't actually play SC1 for 6 months after I bought it due to a computer problem (it was a 150MHz Pentium). I spent the time using the map editor and reading the manual:

Spoiler

Except, at least in the original SC1 manual, it said the Zerg on Zerus were essentially bugs that were "uplifted" by the Xel'Naga (the Xel'Naga were not presented as being malevolent), rapidly accelerating their evolution. The species was chosen due to their "purity in essence" as opposed to the "purity in form" that the Xel'Naga sought in the Protoss but had abandoned (don't know what this means, I had always interpreted this as an explanation of why the Zerg looked way more disgusting than the Toss). There was something about the Xel'Naga being disappointed in the individualism of the Protoss, and hence they created the Overmind as the sole conscious of the Zerg. The uplifted Zerg soon dominated the Zerus ecosystem and eventually became space-faring, overwhelming the Xel'Naga orbiting Zerus in the process (it stands to reason, then, that the Xel'Naga should have been incorporated into the Zerg, but SC2 kills this). The Zerg started traveling to different worlds, taking the strongest species from each world, mutating them to accentuate their strengths (i.e., converting them so they look like terrifying monsters), and incorporating them into the Zerg (for instance, the hydra, the muta, etc). Hence, the Borg-like "Zerg swarm" came into being. There was even a blurb in the manual about how hydras were herbivores on some grassy planet. This sort of motivates the Zerg and the Overmind for SC1 (not BW, which I thought was not as good as SC1 story wise, but certainly made a superior multiplayer game) and identifies the Zerg as the clear enemy, that is, their desire to destroy and assimilate the Terrans and Protoss is how they advance as a species. Not original, but at least convincing.

In other words, it flies in the face of SC1 lore to say that the primal zerg are somehow equivalent or more developed than the Xel'Naga zerg. It also makes no sense for there to be "primal" hydras and mutas. I also remember the SC1 lore indicating that Zerus was a barren, volcanic planet, making the unlifted zerg exceptionally hardy, as opposed to a lush jungle world. I honestly facepalmed when I saw this part of the campaign.

So, really, while I I think SC2 is a great multiplayer game and one of the best RTS ever made, both WoL and HotS campaigns are unbelievably shallow, cliched, and a shadow of what the SC1 story was. The absolutely gorgeous cinematics are their only saving grace.

Yup i remember this stuff from the manual too, it was a great story, no shame!

Spoiler

IIRC The xel naga were incorporated into the zerg swarm, just not physically, only their knowledge. That is how the overmind learned of the protoss and the "power of the khaydarin crystals". Dont remember what the hell the crystals were for but yeah. Xel naga were probably physically weak anyway, the protoss butched a ton of xel naga and thats why they left Aiur originally to go create the zerg.

Ya don't get manuals like that anymore!

 

[Dumac]

Spoiler

It also makes no sense for there to be "primal" hydras and mutas.

There is a justification.

Spoiler

This was explained by Abathur. He becomes outraged and says "we just landed on this planet, and already the primal zerg are incorporating our sequences. Did you see thier hydralisk-based zerg?" Or something along those lines.

Spoiler

I also remember the SC1 lore indicating that Zerus was a barren, volcanic planet, making the unlifted zerg exceptionally hardy, as opposed to a lush jungle world. I honestly facepalmed when I saw this part of the campaign.

According to Blizzard:

Spoiler

Over the millennia[6], Zerus became verdant with large swaths of jungle and areas of volcanic activity

Of course that was added lore for HotS.

Spoiler

both WoL and HotS campaigns are unbelievably shallow, cliched, and a shadow of what the SC1 story was. The absolutely gorgeous cinematics are their only saving grace.

At 15 missions completed, can't really disagree there.

Spoiler

The whole made-up, cheesy kerrigan/raynor love was extremely awkward and flies in the face of what happened in SC1.

Then, they make QoB out to be some roid-raging uncontrollsable psychopath, when she used to be cold and calculating. To add to that, they make human kerrigan so weak and pathetic, lashing out and crying over the 'death' of Raynor.

The whole primal zerg aspect is just dumb. Not ot mention her post-primal "transcendent evolution" is just the queen of blades design with some more glowiness. Way to be lazy, blizzard.

 

[Fenixgoon]

well, i'm sad..i just beat HotS tonight - not on account of it being super easy. i'd say it took me about 15 hours. at < $3/hr, that's pretty damn good entertainment. certainly better than movies.

i'm one of those people who has to play a game and beat it as quickly as possible, which kinda sucks and as someone who is terrible at RTS's in multiplayer, i really didn't play SC2 WoL MP much at all, so i probably won't play HotS MP either. but i still think the game was worth the $$

fantastic cinematics as usual. in fact, i was very surprised by the number of cutscenes, both in-game and completely CG. the varied missions were great, although there was a lot more base building at the end. not that i minded since you get all of your units by that point and get to rip everything apart. the last couple of missions in particular were pretty solid IMO.

story-wise, i would agree that it is not nearly on the level of SC1/BW. the first part of the ending was pretty weak IMO. the very very end (the final lines) wasn't too bad though. HotS also suffers from being the middle part of a trilogy, just like LotR: TT wasn't as good as FotR or RotK. i'm hoping blizz will cleanly finish out SC2 with the protoss installment, rather than trying to drag the series out forever.

also

Spoiler

torrasque ultralisk is fucking OP as hell. regenerating army FTW

GIVE ME CALL OF THE VOID. DAMN YOU BLIZZARD!!!

 

[axium]

Maybe a silly comment from a newbie, but damn it! Still no eyefinity support for campaign?

 

[Zeze]

Final Update:

I just beat it on Brutal. Took about 25~ hours? You can tell HotS is clearly made easier by Blizzard. The same Brutal difficulty of Wings of Liberty was massively harder with countless restarts.

The HotS ending proves that this leaked ending from Sept 2010 was legitimate.. That was about 2 months after WoL release.

Spoiler

In the leaked ending, the Zerg became 'free'. They finally became a true feral race without a master (such as Overmind or Kerrigan). It hints the finality of the vicious Zerg, and wraps up a big part of SC lore.

But in the final direction of HotS, the Swarm is on the mission to kill Amon. Should Kerrigan die (which I believe so in the third expansion), Zagara is next on the line succeed.

This shows that the writers of Blizzard are kind of 'winging it' for the SC2 lore, and are milking it to continue the franchise on and on.

In the perfect world, Valerian succeeds Mengsk as the good guy. And finally, relative peace comes to Terrans.

Same goes for Zerg- they are freed and pose no threat to anyone.

And Protoss defeat the Dark Void/Amon/Fallen One and are at peace too.

I think that would've been more 'theatrical' rather than this WOW-esque never-ending threats and new bad guys.

Update:

About 13~ missions in now. More impressions:

1. They have the same upgrades from WoL- 2 workers for cost of 1 AND automated vaspene gas (doesn't require drones to mine). These two upgrades make the game INCREDIBLY easy. And these upgrades come early in the game too.

If you mine 4 gas geysers, that means you don't have to make 12 extra drones. That's savings of 600 minerals, 12 less drone climb & 12 free supply for your army later. Combined with the double drone upgrade, they make your base building exponentially faster. You will saturate all mineral fields and have 200/200 army in 5-7 minutes. And then you just steamroll the map.

I'm flying through them on Brutal difficulty.

2. As for units, rapid DPS range unit reigns supreme again, just like Marines in WoL. This is why people call this game Rangecraft. Hydralisk with the Frenzy upgrade (15 seconds of 50% attack speed) will absolutely tear through everyone. It's the perfect unit: ranged, all-purpose damage (without vs armor or vs light penalty), and in large numbers they mitigate their frailty. THIS makes ALL other units and their upgrades look utterly useless and gimmicky.

It's too easy. Just massing Mutalisk with the 6x bounce is OP too. After I finish the game, I plan on beating the game again with different & harder units.

Also the game has lots of Diablo-esque boss battles. In WoL or Warcraft 3, they were rare and gimmicky. But this expansion really nailed it. It's polished well and lots of fun.

Here's my review. I'm about 6 missions in.

I'll start with the bad.

The Bad:

I'm still angry that they have botched the wholesome SC1 lore. SC1 & BW had dialogue that was awesome, plot was engaging, and overall quality was... mature. Raynor swore to kill Kerrigan with his own hands after she's murdered everyone and his friends. She killed his personal friend Phoenix, made Tassadar sacrifice himself, murdered millions, and outright decimated an entire race's home planet- Aiur.

Now SC2 has retconned Raynor to somehow develop romance for Kerrigan- a complete 180. What the fuck? Raynor was a likable, down-to-earth bald guy. Suddenly he now has beautiful tuff of hair with a sexy bang coming down. Yes, this was all made evident in SC2 Wings of Liberty, but I'm still not over it when I played Heart of the Swarm. This bullshit hokey romantic banter between Raynor and Kerrigan made me cringe so hard. And when Raynor twirled her around and kissed her, it made my skin crawl out of sheer elementary awkwardness.

I will never forgive Blizzard for dumbing down the plot to pander to twelve year olds for mass appeal. It is now soulless and I can't take the game seriously.

The Good:

SC1's expansion didn't offer much 'technically'. Yes it perfected the game as the #1 eSports platform for nearly two decades. But for the single player experience (which is what I care about), they just added 2 tile sets (snow and dessert) and few new units. While it offered lots of levels and amazing story, it was the same old 'build and destroy the base' formula. And they tossed in few 'adventure' levels.

Now for SC2's expansion HOTS, I expected the similar 'lazy' approach for single player campaigns. Boy, I will gladly admit I was pleasantly surprised. If being a Triple-A title comes with its ugliness, it also comes with shining examples of good things. The game is just FUN. They added super customized single player experience with thoroughly different mechanics. I was impressed at the level where a larvae infiltrates the Protoss ship and continues to evolve. And the game has tremendous amount of dialogue and cut scenes. They are really progressing the story line and it has lots of lore material to finally move forward.

From the CD sleeve manual of SC1, I've always wondered what the original Zerg race was like. The game finally visits the origin and it's all just refreshingly entertaining. Again, I'm only about 6-7 missions in. But it's pretty good so far- especially compared to the absolutely pointless and garbage filler storyline of Wings of Liberty.

They did a good job and surprised a veteran RTS player like me. The genre may be getting tiresome, but HotS threw a breath of fresh air at it. One quick example is the Evolution Missions. Those are just plain fun in both storytelling and gameplay.

Verdict:

-Still suffers from shitty retconn of Raynor and Kerrigan
-Corny dialogue and voice acting
-Outside of the two protagonists, story is finally getting exciting
-Great new gameplay to the tired RTS formula
-Not all pandering to kids are bad, the console-style checkpoint system works perfectly into SC2, making the general experience seamless.

8.5/10 If it continues to surprise me, I may give it a 9 later.

I'd love to hear your thoughts and your own review. Do you agree/disagree with me?

 

[PowerYoga]

Update:

About 13~ missions in now. More impressions:

1. They have the same upgrades from WoL- 2 workers for cost of 1 AND automated vaspene gas (doesn't require drones to mine). These two upgrades make the game INCREDIBLY easy. And these upgrades come early in the game too.

If you mine 4 gas geysers, that means you don't have to make 12 extra drones. That's savings of 600 minerals, 12 less drone climb & 12 free supply for your army later. Combined with the double drone upgrade, they make your base building exponentially faster. You will saturate all mineral fields and have 200/200 army in 5-7 minutes. And then you just steamroll the map.

I'll agree on that, though I like my roach/hydra combo with a bunch of mutas for unexpected attacks. Roach with the scarabs on kill can generate a huge army to tank for your ranged units very easily, and I find myself not even needing frenzy 99% of the time so I switched to the extra range. Hydras get stuck sometimes with a huge wall of roaches and scarabs all over the place.

 

[Zeze]

I wish the game was more versatile towards different strategies (in Brutal).

I tried all-suicide Baneling + Zergling army.. because the damage isn't good enough vs cost, you end up running out of all minerals in the game.

On the other hand, making Hydras leaves you with ridiculous amount of money because they're ranged and just don't die. They're way too cost effective.

They should buff the melee units. The only ones worth it are maybe Ultras with max upgrades. But even then, they're just fancy toys. It's the roaches/hydras that get the job done.

And then you got utterly worthless units like Swarm Host, Viper, and Infestors (outside of its quest levels).

All-mutas work well in the level they're introduced. But later, they just get chewed up by AOE turrets & Thors in 'real' levels.

Brood Lords + Lings or Hydras are also lots of fun. Broodlords rain down endless swarms of broodlings. You don't even need anti air because Kerrigan is strong enough.

 

[Fenixgoon]

I wish the game was more versatile towards different strategies (in Brutal).

I tried all-suicide Baneling + Zergling army.. because the damage isn't good enough vs cost, you end up running out of all minerals in the game.

On the other hand, making Hydras leaves you with ridiculous amount of money because they're ranged and just don't die. They're way too cost effective.

They should buff the melee units. The only ones worth it are maybe Ultras with max upgrades. But even then, they're just fancy toys. It's the roaches/hydras that get the job done.

And then you got utterly worthless units like Swarm Host, Viper, and Infestors (outside of its quest levels).

All-mutas work well in the level they're introduced. But later, they just get chewed up by AOE turrets & Thors in 'real' levels.

Brood Lords + Lings or Hydras are also lots of fun. Broodlords rain down endless swarms of broodlings. You don't even need anti air because Kerrigan is strong enough.

i didn't find hydras very cost effective at all. they got mowed down for me on brutal.

i got the jumping banelings upgrade and thought they were retardedly awesome.

i generally just ran tank unit (aberration or ultralisk) plus zerglings and hydras and that seemed to work well.

zergling swarms didn't seem to work well outside of the first few levels.

 

[irishScott]

i didn't find hydras very cost effective at all. they got mowed down for me on brutal.

i got the jumping banelings upgrade and thought they were retardedly awesome.

i generally just ran tank unit (aberration or ultralisk) plus zerglings and hydras and that seemed to work well.

zergling swarms didn't seem to work well outside of the first few levels.

Yeah once I got ultralisks... well things got a lot easier. I think the main issue with this campaign was resources, they were too damn easy to get. In WoL the first resources expansion was usually a significant distance away, so you had to defend two completely separate bases at once. In HoTS the first expansion was always right next door, which means you could pretty much build whatever you wanted.

I would play defensive for about 10 minutes while I stockpiled 7000 minerals, then just built a 200/200 army, several times in a row, of whatever configuration pleased me the most, until I won.

 

[Zeze]

i didn't find hydras very cost effective at all. they got mowed down for me on brutal.

i got the jumping banelings upgrade and thought they were retardedly awesome.

i generally just ran tank unit (aberration or ultralisk) plus zerglings and hydras and that seemed to work well.

zergling swarms didn't seem to work well outside of the first few levels.

What mowed down the Hydras in Brutal? It's the most cost effective unit in the game because they do equal damage to Light & Armored + Anti Air + big range.

They eat everything up. Melee counters (Firebats, Zealots) never get in range because 20 to 60 Hydras just don't let them get in range.

They're supposed to be countered by mass Tanks & Psionic Storms. But the whole campaign never has more than 2-3 Tanks or High Templars (which is funny because WoL Brutal was supremely harder and they threw 5-8 storms or Tanks at once that just reset your army count to 0).

Have you used the Frenzy upgrade? It's just stupid strong. Even without it (or I'm lazy to press T), they mow down everyone.

Roaches are very good too. But they have a bad range (2.5), Armored (Thors & Immortals 2 shot them), and you have to build another anti air (and they're Hydras lol).

Overall the game is much easier compared to WoL in same Brutal mode. If you were forced to make ONE unit and win the whole game, Hydras get it done, easily.

You know what units are truly 'not cost effective at all'? The garbage gimimcky units from the multiplayer- Viper, Swarm Host, and even Infestors.

 

[irishScott]

What mowed down the Hydras in Brutal? It's the most cost effective unit in the game because they do equal damage to Light & Armored + Anti Air + big range.

They eat everything up. Melee counters (Firebats, Zealots) never get in range because 20 to 60 Hydras just don't let them get in range.

They're supposed to be countered by mass Tanks & Psionic Storms. But the whole campaign never has more than 2-3 Tanks or High Templars (which is funny because WoL Brutal was supremely harder and they threw 5-8 storms or Tanks at once that just reset your army count to 0).

Have you used the Frenzy upgrade? It's just stupid strong. Even without it (or I'm lazy to press T), they mow down everyone.

Roaches are very good too. But they have a bad range (2.5), Armored (Thors & Immortals 2 shot them), and you have to build another anti air (and they're Hydras lol).

Overall the game is much easier compared to WoL in same Brutal mode. If you were forced to make ONE unit and win the whole game, Hydras get it done, easily.

You know what units are truly 'not cost effective at all'? The garbage gimimcky units from the multiplayer- Viper, Swarm Host, and even Infestors.

Yeah, swarms hosts are ground-based, shorter-range, extremely weaker, carriers that can only fire on ground units and have to stop firing every few seconds to respawn. And they aren't that cheap either. Vipers I never even saw the point. Supposedly they're around to snatch siege tanks off of hills... and not much else. Investors might be nice if your opponent is using a lot of capital units.

It's like blizzard forgot zerg was the swarming race and just threw in some zergified protoss units.

 

[Aikouka]

I don't know if anyone watches it, but MLG Dallas starts tonight. Got my HD pass from my MLG Gold membership (you can buy the membership at Gamestop), so I'll be watching it a bit.

i didn't find hydras very cost effective at all. they got mowed down for me on brutal.

Hydras alone are relatively frail units. Were you putting anything in front of them like Roaches?

 

[Zeze]

I don't know if anyone watches it, but MLG Dallas starts tonight. Got my HD pass from my MLG Gold membership (you can buy the membership at Gamestop), so I'll be watching it a bit.



Hydras alone are relatively frail units. Were you putting anything in front of them like Roaches?

Even if they are frail, the sheer DPS make up for it. As I've stressed already, you can blindly mass Hydras and win the whole game easily on Brutal.

 

[irishScott]

Even if they are frail, the sheer DPS make up for it. As I've stressed already, you can blindly mass Hydras and win the whole game easily on Brutal.

I'll have to try this, because the few hydra-only attacks I tried got slaughtered, and that was on hard. Found that matching them up with roaches, zerglings or ultralisks got the best results. Especially ultralisks.

 

[shortylickens]

Yeah this is one of those strategy games where they tell you to mixed armies do best and in reality its almost always more practical to spam one unit.

 

[Aikouka]

Even if they are frail, the sheer DPS make up for it. As I've stressed already, you can blindly mass Hydras and win the whole game easily on Brutal.

Except I got the feeling that he wasn't massing them to the extent that you mentioned, so he would need something in front to soak the damage.

Although, I prefer avoiding terribad tactics that don't work in MP, so I don't mass stuff like that.

 

[Zeze]

I'll have to try this, because the few hydra-only attacks I tried got slaughtered, and that was on hard. Found that matching them up with roaches, zerglings or ultralisks got the best results. Especially ultralisks.

The big mistake that novice players make is that they feed small 20-30 armies and get wiped out. Then they repeat and have an awful time. Then they find themselves out of minerals/get overwhelmed and lose.

In any 'destroy all bases' level, do the following:

1. Quickly saturate your mineral patch. It comes out to 3 drones per 1 mineral. The hatcheries have a drone count on top now (18/24 for example). Faster economy = win.

2. Find a second base asap (within 3-5 mins). 1 base is never enough. Ideally you want your third base soon once you get your army going.

3. Find a healthy balance between building nothing but drones first and having the most minimal army to fend off any enemy attacks or fulfilling timed objectives.

4. Get your upgrades while droning up and continue fending off with minimal army. Get your upgrades to 2-2 ideally before you start attacking.

5. Due to this efficient base building from 1-4 above, you will be stockpiling minerals very fast (1500-4000+).

6. By then you should have 3~ bases with another 2 macro hatcheries (5-6 hatcheries total). This will help you BURST into 200/200 army.

7. Steamroll with your 200/200 army. You don't want anything less than 150-160 army. This massive force is irrecoverable from the enemies perspective. Due to your mineral stockpile + multiple hatcheries, you burst back into 200/200 ASAP if they're beaten down to 150~.

8. This is where Hydras completely mitigate their weakness of being frail and end up being the perfect unit through numbers. Traditionally you want some support to go with it, but in HotS, Kerrigan is so fucking OP, she alone can support the little need Hydras may have (she 1-shots Siege Tanks from afar, and her AOE stun is stupid strong). They're just so fucking ridiculous in sheer ranged DPS, no one dies.

 

[evident]

i just beat the single player. i made it interesting by trying to infest as many cool units as i could, which ended up being pretty fun! otherwise, a bunch of ultras with hydras behind them just steamrolled everything in the single player