Starbucks went to gender neutral bathrooms

[Mike64]

The risk of getting hit on by a Republican politician in a public toilet is higher than getting hit on by a random transgender in a public toilet!

Eh, that's a given, though to be objective, probably not wildly higher than being hit on by a Democrat... But I'll take that a step further and suggest that her risk of being hit by a politician belonging to any party - falling through the ceiling - is higher than getting hit on or by a random transgender in a public toilet.

 

[rh71]

... and if universal bathrooms were more a thing, nobody would be shocked to see them to both go in. If we lived in a world where gender specific elevators were always a thing, two entering the same would be shocking.

I could also point back to segregation, where a black man entering a white man's bathroom would have been shocking. Amazingly, not a problem now.

WTF are you going on about? If a woman sees a man come into their bathroom, they are on high alert because something is more than likely to happen. The simple fact that an entryway is visible deters this to begin with. Why is either of this a bad thing to have when a woman is in an enclosed public space? Put on the woman's hat for a second.

And I suppose you are trying to call me out on either lying or not knowing what I saw, so you're now attacking the messenger, as your attack on the message has fallen apart.

You sound like you're following a how-to-win-an-internet-argument document. Attacking the messenger? Calling you a liar? Nice reach. I suppose next you'll try to get me to call you names to further this point?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

WTF are you going on about? If a woman sees a man come into their bathroom, they are on high alert because something is more than likely to happen. The simple fact that an entryway is visible deters this to begin with. Why is either of this a bad thing to have when a woman is in an enclosed public space? Put on the woman's hat for a second.


You sound like you're following a how-to-win-an-internet-argument document. Attacking the messenger? Calling you a liar? Nice reach. I suppose next you'll try to get me to call you names to further this point?

You mockingly said 'Oh your observation? Seems legit!'. That little quip implies that what I stated was in fact, not legit. Implying I'm either lying, or didn't see what I saw. You cannot hide behind your emojis, and your inference that I'm following a document on how to win an internet argument implies that you feel I'm backing you into a corner. Am I?

Yes if a woman sees a man walking into a women's restroom, that would raise eyebrows. What I'm 'on about' is that if we always had segregated elevators, the same thing would happen. A man walking into a woman's elevator would raise eyebrows. As we do not, that doesn't happen. Likewise if we didn't have segregated bathrooms, it wouldn't happen. Does that make sense?

I also introduced the former racial segregation as another datapoint for my side. At one point, it would have been shocking for a black male/female to enter their respective male/female bathrooms, due to segregation. Once that went away (and social notions caught up), it was no longer shocking. Does that make sense?

 

[rh71]

^ oh no you backed me into a corner! I'm going to let my emojis fly now!!!! Christ man, you're the one who started making light of everything after I asked you to read what women have concerns about, don't forget that. Your shit doesn't stink right? You give respect, you get respect.

EDIT>>
/insert another emoji for fake holier-than-thou people.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

^ oh no you backed me into a corner! I'm going to let my emojis fly now!!!! Christ man, you're the one who started making light of everything after I asked you to read what women have concerns about, don't forget that. Your shit doesn't stink right?

EDIT>>

No, I was pointing out that this isn't nearly as scary a thing as you've been making it out to be, with rapists stalking the dark recesses of every hall and unlocked room. I never said anything about me being above anything, in fact more to the point I'm trying to get across that everyone can use the same damn bathroom without separating everyone.

Edit: Also, you didn't address anything I stated about communal elevators, or racial segregation, you just talked about me. You're straying off-topic.

 

[rh71]

No, I was pointing out that this isn't nearly as scary a thing as you've been making it out to be, with rapists stalking the dark recesses of every hall and unlocked room. I never said anything about me being above anything, in fact more to the point I'm trying to get across that everyone can use the same damn bathroom without separating everyone.

As I said up top:

Why is either of this a bad thing to have when a woman is in an enclosed public space? Put on the woman's hat for a second.

It isn't as scary FOR YOU.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

As I said up top:


It isn't as scary FOR YOU.

Is it scary for women to enter communal elevators? Or any other communal space that may or may not include men? Any women care to comment, instead of us men telling each other what women feel?

 

[WelshBloke]

Eh, that's a given, though to be objective, probably not wildly higher than being hit on by a Democrat... But I'll take that a step further and suggest that her risk of being hit by a politician belonging to any party - falling through the ceiling - is higher than getting hit on or by a random transgender in a public toilet.

At this point I should pull up the numbers for republican politicians convicted of sexual shenanigans in mens rooms and that for transgendered peeps, but I can't be arsed.

Apathy ftw!

 

[rh71]

Is it scary for women to enter communal elevators? Or any other communal space that may or may not include men? Any women care to comment, instead of us men telling each other what women feel?

Are you married or have a gf who you connect with? Honest question. If the 2 are alone in an elevator, you bet their guard is up. Besides, every woman is different. Now you want to force every woman into the same situation and proclaim they shouldn't be concerned.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Are you married or have a gf who you connect with? Honest question. If the 2 are alone in an elevator, you bet their guard is up. Besides, every woman is different. Now you want to force every woman into the same situation and proclaim they shouldn't be concerned.

Yes, 6+ years, she has no issue using a communal bathroom (though she generally speaking doesn't like other people). I'm claiming the concern wouldn't be higher than existing scenarios, since the existing scenarios clearly aren't a problem (based on the fact women use the elevators instead of flocking to the stairs), it wouldn't be a problem in this scenario. Now I'd never state that my claim is 100% factually correct since I'm a sysad, and not a social scientist specializing in female fear triggers. But logic would dictate that, if the scenarios are roughly equivalent, they'd be accepted equivalently.

 

[IronWing]

Finally, a new issue has risen into which we can channel our righteous indignation. Abortion was burning itself out.

 

[rh71]

Yes, 6+ years, she has no issue using a communal bathroom (though she generally speaking doesn't like other people). I'm claiming the concern wouldn't be higher than existing scenarios, since the existing scenarios clearly aren't a problem (based on the fact women use the elevators instead of flocking to the stairs), it wouldn't be a problem in this scenario. Now I'd never state that my claim is 100% factually correct since I'm a sysad, and not a social scientist specializing in female fear triggers. But logic would dictate that, if the scenarios are roughly equivalent, they'd be accepted equivalently.

How many existing scenarios are there? Elevators? Do you see lone females in family bathrooms? What else?

By forcing unisex bathrooms, you are creating more situations where a female would have to be more cautious like in an elevator. How is this positive? What's the purpose in the first place?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Finally, a new issue has risen into which we can channel our righteous indignation. Abortion was burning itself out.

There must always be a lich king.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

How many existing scenarios are there? Elevators? Do you see lone females in family bathrooms? What else?

By forcing unisex bathrooms, you are creating more situations where a female would have to be more cautious like in an elevator. How is this positive? What's the purpose in the first place?

Elevators, bathrooms, and fitting rooms are the most public examples. Other examples would be meetings arranged for two people (in which both are strangers otherwise), think a car purchase or job interview or something. Doctor's offices, hidden away waiting areas (layaway section of a store, for instance) are also examples, though that's stretching the bounds of public and enclosed.

The purpose beyond general simplification of our world is greater integration of sexes as a whole, and to stop the ridiculous amount of time being spent by our lawmakers and everyday schmucks such as ourselves, talking about gender neutral bathrooms for LBGTWTFBBQ members of our populace.

EDIT: And yes, I've passed lone females walking out of family bathrooms, or walked in and seen one other at the mirror/heading in or out of a stall/dealing with a baby.

 

[TwiceOver]

Our bathrooms have always been "gender neutral" whatever that means and all, and women are just as messy and smelly as men.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Our bathrooms have always been "gender neutral" whatever that means and all, and women are just as messy and smelly as men.

Define 'our'? Just curious. We talking country or business?

 

[TwiceOver]

Define 'our'? Just curious. We talking country or business?

Business. Professional environment.

 

[Red Squirrel]

This whole gender neutral bathroom thing is ridiculous. It's a solution to a problem that does not exist. There are much more serious issues going on these days such as government corruption, the mass surveillance program, taxes that keep going up, the fact that government keeps regulating people and not corporations etc (those all really tie in to government corruption). Those are the things that SJW's etc should be fighting against. They are real issues that affect everyone.

That said if I ran a business I'd just have a bunch of individual bathrooms with toilet and sink and a couple that are wheel chair accessible and call it a day. Then hopefully nobody bothers me to change anything.

 

[rh71]

Elevators, bathrooms, and fitting rooms are the most public examples. Other examples would be meetings arranged for two people (in which both are strangers otherwise), think a car purchase or job interview or something. Doctor's offices, hidden away waiting areas (layaway section of a store, for instance) are also examples, though that's stretching the bounds of public and enclosed.

The purpose beyond general simplification of our world is greater integration of sexes as a whole, and to stop the ridiculous amount of time being spent by our lawmakers and everyday schmucks such as ourselves, talking about gender neutral bathrooms for LBGTWTFBBQ members of our populace.

Those are hardly examples of public enclosed spaces. Fitting rooms have a lock for individuals and usually an attendant 20 feet away. Also usually gender specific.

As the man above said, integration of sexes is not a problem anyone has on any agenda. One gender is physically inferior to the other and would much prefer they get their own space given the option. Who has the propensity to make it gender neutral? Stores looking to save money & space (which is fine) and those who want to get their name in the news. There is no social greater good here unlike color or class segregation.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Those are hardly examples of public enclosed spaces. Fitting rooms have a lock for individuals and usually an attendant 20 feet away.

Starbucks bathrooms don't?

 

[rh71]

Starbucks bathrooms don't?

Don't what? Have locks? I didn't say they did in that blurb. We've already established bathrooms and elevators are enclosed public spaces.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Don't what? Have locks? I didn't say they did in that blurb. We've already established bathrooms and elevators are enclosed public spaces.

I don't understand the distinction between a changing room and a public unisex bathroom you're trying to make.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I don't understand the distinction between a changing room and a public unisex bathroom you're trying to make.

Because changing rooms are already unisex, and thus don't support his argument.

Those are hardly examples of public enclosed spaces. Fitting rooms have a lock for individuals and usually an attendant 20 feet away. Also usually gender specific.

As the man above said, integration of sexes is not a problem anyone has on any agenda. One gender is physically inferior to the other and would much prefer they get their own space given the option. Who has the propensity to make it gender neutral? Stores looking to save money & space (which is fine) and those who want to get their name in the news. There is no social greater good here unlike color or class segregation.

The fact that we're talking about it, and there's bills being passed around, means it *is* on someone's agenda. We can work on more than one thing at a time. I'm not saying this is some social issue which should take precedent over others mind you, (I have no horse in this race, really). Also, there's a not-insubstantial number of LBGTetc people who might argue you on the point about social greater good.

Also, not all fitting rooms have attendants, and the doors are made of paper mache, so.. yeah.

 

[rh71]

^ Changing rooms being unisex and open for anyone to enter freely without monitoring? No. If you want to make a point, you can just say "I've seen them" but that doesn't mean they're plentiful, or more importantly, make a woman feel safe. Those doors are flimsy because they are meant to provide privacy, not security. They don't have security in mind because they are usually monitored / segregated, or at the very least, the doors are openly visible to the rest of the store. Minimize shenanigans, including consensual sex.

Don't you think these people have experience with liability concerns?

LGBT people want social acceptance of their kind, not some grand plan to unify males and females so they can pee in harmony. This bathroom issue is their soapbox at the moment - they'll take everything they can get.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I don't go to Starbucks, but I can tell you other fast food places have security cameras outside of the bathrooms. I can't imagine they don't monitor their store.