Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[zerocool84]

Probably George Lucas' idea, since he had different directors for all three of the original trilogy, too.

That's not the problem though because Lucas already had the basic story set up beforehand with the original trilogy. This trilogy you can tell it's being made up as they make the movies and giving every director free reign to change the story at will which is not a good thing because we get things like Last Jedi which Rian Johnson shows that if you dislike something you can easily ignore it or make something that was shown important not matter at all or get rid of the main reason why any of this is happening (Snoke) with no change to anything at all.

 

[I Saw OJ]

This new movie was pretty much just IV, V, and VI smashed up into one movie. Didn't really go anywhere forward, if anything it went backwards and the rebels are pretty much having to start over.

 

[local]

Right? Regardless Admiral dumbass should have been able to maneuver the cruiser to block those shots. But maybe she felt responsible for all the deaths she caused by not communicating her plan with anyone ever. Instead she goes with the "Faith in the force" bs

I thought that was what she was going to do right before I said, "Nope, reverse R1 incoming."

We were talking about this at work and how that basically broke the SW universe. She didn't even need to suicide the ship as it was - they fucking have droids.

Or maybe ram with one of the doomed escorts and escape with the cruiser.

It doesn't even need to be that fancy. Bring a bunch of rocks or grab some from the asteroid belts that exist in most solar systems, strap on a few hyperdrives, add in a droid per rock and you now have a wall of relativistic missiles to throw at the enemy. Instawin

Hell just build a hyperdrive cannon that fires a scatter shot pile of hyperdrives with about 30 seconds of fuel like an MLRS.

 

[paperfist]

Spoiler

Who is reys father? Luke? Obi Wan? I've read a handful of articles (see google) that give rational for Rey being Luke's son and I kinda agree. At the same time, we already know that Kaylo Ren's mom is Leia. Kinda makes sense to have these two being opposed and they are both actually conflicted per The Last Jedi

Spoiler

Rey has the same accent as Obi Wan, and grew up on the same type of planet/surroundings. If she was Luke's kid wouldn't he be able to sense it especially after having trained Kylo?

 

[Ancalagon44]

Spoiler

Who is reys father? Luke? Obi Wan? I've read a handful of articles (see google) that give rational for Rey being Luke's son and I kinda agree. At the same time, we already know that Kaylo Ren's mom is Leia. Kinda makes sense to have these two being opposed and they are both actually conflicted per The Last Jedi

SPOILERS

You know, I used to think there was an interesting answer to this question, and then I watched TLJ and realized there isn't. Stop looking for a piece of evidence to confirm or deny a theory - you are giving the writers too much credit.

We got the reveal at the end of TLJ that Rey's parents were nobodies, and I think that is how it will stay. I will be surprised if they reveal that she is really Chewbacca's daughter or something.

There is no interesting answer to the question of who Rey's parents are because the trilogy itself is just not that interesting.

 

[Ventanni]

I found a guesstimate on the mass of an X-Wing and some physicists calculations on the amount of energy required to destroy a planet.

If an X-Wings weight is based roughly on the weight of an F-22, then it should weight somewhere in the realm of 12,000 lbs.
At the speed of light, assuming impact at the exact moment it passes the speed of light, it would have approximately 2.44596e+20 Joules of kinetic energy.
The physicists calculated it would take 2e+27 Joules of energy to destroy an earth sized planet.
The Death Stars superlaser fired for three seconds which gives it a minimum rating of 6.67e+26 Watts.
Our sun has an estimated energy output of 3.846e+26 Watts which is less than the superlaser, I think.

At this point I know there is a way to calculate how much energy is in the lightspeed X-Wing compared to the minimum possible rating of the superlaser but I am way too lazy to learn how to jack with new kinds of math right now. I do know that to convert the X-Wings energy to Watts requires a duration and I'm guessing that duration would only be a tiny fraction of a second which in my first attempts put it's energy up near the superlaser in Watts.

So if that is accurate they could remote pilot every X-Wing like a tiny self contained instant superlaser, I am probably wrong but I do know any decent amount of mass at the speed of light has a stupid huge amount of energy. That cruiser probably had enough energy to create a black hole.

Dead on! As the guy in the video said, you can't weaponize hyperspace. It totally destroys the storytelling of any space drama. Especially since ships in the Star Wars universe travel at completely absurd speeds when traveling through hyperspace (much, much faster than Star Trek), the amount of energy required to stop it is too great. Even a tiny ship would crack a planet, and would wreck the Death Star with ease. I realize that Star Wars is a completely fictional and made up space drama, but it still has to be believable. Now it doesn't matter who builds what. Just fly an X-Wing or a Tie Fighter into it at light speed, and wah-lah, problem solved.

 

[Majes]

Dead on! As the guy in the video said, you can't weaponize hyperspace. It totally destroys the storytelling of any space drama. Especially since ships in the Star Wars universe travel at completely absurd speeds when traveling through hyperspace (much, much faster than Star Trek), the amount of energy required to stop it is too great. Even a tiny ship would crack a planet, and would wreck the Death Star with ease. I realize that Star Wars is a completely fictional and made up space drama, but it still has to be believable. Now it doesn't matter who builds what. Just fly an X-Wing or a Tie Fighter into it at light speed, and wah-lah, problem solved.

You want it to believable yet you are applying the physics of a civilization that can barely achieve a fraction of lightspeed to a universe that has figured out how to use Hyperspace which is something we haven't even coined a term for yet in this universe.

You're trying to logic something without even using the appropriate terminology and without having a base understanding of the actual physics involved. This isn't anyone's fault. It's fiction for a reason, but to say Star Wars isn't believable because of physics when it's always followed a different set of physics is pretty nonsensical.

 

[Ventanni]

You want it to believable yet you are applying the physics of a civilization that can barely achieve a fraction of lightspeed to a universe that has figured out how to use Hyperspace which is something we haven't even coined a term for yet in this universe.

You're trying to logic something without even using the appropriate terminology and without having a base understanding of the actual physics involved. This isn't anyone's fault. It's fiction for a reason, but to say Star Wars isn't believable because of physics when it's always followed a different set of physics is pretty nonsensical.

It's not nonsensical. It's a storytelling aspect of literature. Star Wars just showed us that in their own fictional universe and fictional laws of physics that you can take large warships and ram them into other much larger warships and obliterate them. Now, Star Wars is already full of all sorts of fictional and physics-defying things that aren't realistic, but it was believable and contained to the reader/viewer in its own shell. And, for the most part, it operated within its own shell. And we like that shell and the entertainment it provides.

It's not about logic, reason, or physics, but the ability to tell a story. By that one scene, the ability to tell a story in the Star Wars universe is weakened because all you gotta do is point a droid operated ship at what you want to obliterate and send it into hyperspace. You don't need Luke, you don't need Chewy, or Rey, or Darth Vader, or anyone. All their running around and entertaining us is pointless when the real and obvious solution is to hit the "Go" button on the hyperdrive.

 

[Majes]

It's not nonsensical. It's a storytelling aspect of literature. Star Wars just showed us that in their own fictional universe and fictional laws of physics that you can take large warships and ram them into other much larger warships and obliterate them. Now, Star Wars is already full of all sorts of fictional and physics-defying things that aren't realistic, but it was believable and contained to the reader/viewer in its own shell. And, for the most part, it operated within its own shell. And we like that shell and the entertainment it provides.

It's not about logic, reason, or physics, but the ability to tell a story. By that one scene, the ability to tell a story in the Star Wars universe is weakened because all you gotta do is point a droid operated ship at what you want to obliterate and send it into hyperspace. You don't need Luke, you don't need Chewy, or Rey, or Darth Vader, or anyone. All their running around and entertaining us is pointless when the real and obvious solution is to hit the "Go" button on the hyperdrive.

You completely missed my point. Like just jumped out of the way... I'll give it one more shot I guess?

You don't know how hyperspace works. You don't know what forces are involved. You don't know how fast they travel. You don't know what happens to mass. You don't know that an x-wing would do anything to the death star. All you know is that a cruiser either went to hyperspace and tore through Snoke's ship or was transitioning to hyperspace and tore through it.

You could be correct for all I know! The future of Star Wars could be droid piloted Kamikaze shuttles. Or there could be untold numerous factors that keep this from working in other situations. You can't "run the numbers" because there are no numbers for hyperspace. There are "rules" but heck, one of those rules was broken in this movie anyhow.

 

[TXHokie]

Science doesn't apply in SW universe. Check your logic and brain at the door and enjoy mindless made up fun or you'll drive yourself crazy with the "why"s.

 

[Nashemon]

I can't get enough of these fan reviews. They are hilarious. I found an article that pointed out the fact that many people felt the same way about this movie as people did about TESB when it was released. Here's the NY Times review:

http://www.nytimes.com/1980/06/15/movies/moviesspecial/15EMPI.html

 

[zerocool84]

I can't get enough of these fan reviews. They are hilarious. I found an article that pointed out the fact that many people felt the same way about this movie as people did about TESB when it was released. Here's the NY Times review:

http://www.nytimes.com/1980/06/15/movies/moviesspecial/15EMPI.html

Critic reviews and fan reviews are extremely different. That's a critic review and critics absolutely LOVE Last Jedi but audiences are mixed.

 

[glenn1]

You want it to believable yet you are applying the physics of a civilization that can barely achieve a fraction of lightspeed to a universe that has figured out how to use Hyperspace which is something we haven't even coined a term for yet in this universe.

You're trying to logic something without even using the appropriate terminology and without having a base understanding of the actual physics involved. This isn't anyone's fault. It's fiction for a reason, but to say Star Wars isn't believable because of physics when it's always followed a different set of physics is pretty nonsensical.

Since Mythbusters calculated the speed of a "blaster" at being around 130-135 MPH it seems that the speed of light is quite a bit slower in the Star Wars universe than the 186,000 miles/second it travels in our universe. Therefore the speed of Star Wars "hyperspace" is probably in line with what you could achieve with the M3 everyone on ATOT owns. The Millenium Falcon is probably someone's souped up Subaru Brat with a 400 Chevy engine running headers and NOX.

 

[Ventanni]

You completely missed my point. Like just jumped out of the way... I'll give it one more shot I guess?

You don't know how hyperspace works. You don't know what forces are involved. You don't know how fast they travel. You don't know what happens to mass. You don't know that an x-wing would do anything to the death star. All you know is that a cruiser either went to hyperspace and tore through Snoke's ship or was transitioning to hyperspace and tore through it.

You could be correct for all I know! The future of Star Wars could be droid piloted Kamikaze shuttles. Or there could be untold numerous factors that keep this from working in other situations. You can't "run the numbers" because there are no numbers for hyperspace. There are "rules" but heck, one of those rules was broken in this movie anyhow.

I get your point. I know I'm getting a bit of nerd rage, lol. I just took out my nerd rage at the gym 'cause I realized I was getting pretty heated about a fictional movie.

Han Solo does mention in Episode 4 that you have to calculate your path before going into hyperspace, or else your crash yourself into something along the way. The scene in Rogue One with the Star Destroyer coming out of hyperspace and the shuttle obliterating itself into the shields made believable sense because the shuttle had just barely started its acceleration. In my nerd rage at the gym though, I realized that the only main story arc that this changes for the Star Wars Universe is Disney getting away from the "superweapon" story arc. Let's face it, in every Star Wars movie there has been a super weapon or talk of a super weapon of some sort: Death Star 1, Death Star 2, Super Star Destroyer, Starkiller Base, Snoke's big bag boomerang from down under. The bad guys build a super weapon and the good guys destroy it. Maybe they're looking to take that overall story path in a direction that focuses more on raw character development?

Or maybe we'll play with more boomerangs.

 

[tommo123]

i haven't seen this yet but last night i finally got around to watching the justice league. on the way in i heard people talking about "the worst thing was,,," about the last jedi. on the way out of the movie i was surrounded by a last jedi mob who also had no nice things to say. usually it's "no, the best bit was ....."

not with that movie. i'll see it sometime this week but will keep mu expectations low as i don't expect it to be on the level of the justice league.

 

[Nashemon]

Critic reviews and fan reviews are extremely different. That's a critic review and critics absolutely LOVE Last Jedi but audiences are mixed.

I wouldn't go that far. It may be true for things with raving lunatics for fans, but it doesn't apply to the majority of movies. For Star Wars I would say that critics and fans are both looking to get something completely different out of each movie. For example, I'm surprised by the number of people using the fact that there wasn't any real light saber battles as a detractor. Fans want to see epic light saber battles apparently (which was never what Star Wars was about until the prequels). I don't think there's much of a record of fan reviews from 1980, though, as there wasn't really a platform for them to have been archived.

 

[Majes]

I get your point. I know I'm getting a bit of nerd rage, lol. I just took out my nerd rage at the gym 'cause I realized I was getting pretty heated about a fictional movie.

Han Solo does mention in Episode 4 that you have to calculate your path before going into hyperspace, or else your crash yourself into something along the way. The scene in Rogue One with the Star Destroyer coming out of hyperspace and the shuttle obliterating itself into the shields made believable sense because the shuttle had just barely started its acceleration. In my nerd rage at the gym though, I realized that the only main story arc that this changes for the Star Wars Universe is Disney getting away from the "superweapon" story arc. Let's face it, in every Star Wars movie there has been a super weapon or talk of a super weapon of some sort: Death Star 1, Death Star 2, Super Star Destroyer, Starkiller Base, Snoke's big bag boomerang from down under. The bad guys build a super weapon and the good guys destroy it. Maybe they're looking to take that overall story path in a direction that focuses more on raw character development?

Or maybe we'll play with more boomerangs.

Yeah I hope this helps to move away from huge superweapons too. Something like the Kyp Durron Sun Crusher story line would be amazing.

 

[dud]

Interesting read related to the divisiveness caused by the movie:

"Star Wars: The Last Jedi - the most divisive film ever?"

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-42424445


"On the one hand, there are diehard fans giving it low ratings who (to sum it up) believe The Last Jedi, its director Rian Johnson and film studio Disney have betrayed everything they have held dear for the past 40 years.

On the other, there are those who applaud the film's action and tone as well as its attempts to break with Star Wars tradition, taking the franchise into new territory.

Its audience score of 54% on Rotten Tomatoes (that's the proportion of users who have rated it 3.5/5 or higher) is the lowest of any Star Wars film, including the much-maligned prequels (The Phantom Menace has 59%).

But something else is going on too - while fans are divided, film critics were largely in agreement."

 

[glenn1]

But something else is going on too - while fans are divided, film critics were largely in agreement."

Unlike critics, fans don't have financial reasons and relationships with studios to consider when they rate a film. It's telling that fans who dislike the movie are specifically calling out the poor script, logical inconsistencies, and characters breaking from their established personality as reasons why the film is bad while people who like the film are calling out it's action sequences, "breaking from tradition," and such. Reminds me of the Matrix sequels where good Fx and 'action sequences' were completely overshadowed by a plot that made little sense and dialogue that seemed like it existed only to move things along to the next action sequence. Plot even above FX is the reason why Terminator 2 is one of the best films ever while the next movies in the same series sucked donkey balls even though the FX were just as good.

 

[Chromagnus]

Unlike critics, fans don't have financial reasons and relationships with studios to consider when they rate a film.

So why is it that some big studio movies get killed by critics? Wouldn't all big studio movies get good reviews if what you are saying was true?

 

[local]

As a Star Wars fan I don't want it to move in a new direction. I want it to remain within the same reality we have had for the last 40 years. I blame JJ for this as he did the same thing to Star Trek and set the tone for this trilogy with TFA. It tosses out some of the laws that were set by all previous movies in order to include more FX shenanigans. They took the potential realistic outcomes of events and made everything nonsensical. Characters that we know pretty well suddenly act completely against their nature. Honestly this stuff is more disappointing that all the terrible acting and stupid plots of the prequels because at least they stayed within the confines of the established lore about that universe.

I had a bad feeling about this move the moment it mentioned the complete and utter collapse of the New Republic, in a few days at best apparently. The equivalent of Cuba nuking DC, and only DC, then taking over the US in 24 hours.

 

[StrangerGuy]

As a Star Wars fan I don't want it to move in a new direction. I want it to remain within the same reality we have had for the last 40 years. I blame JJ for this as he did the same thing to Star Trek and set the tone for this trilogy with TFA. It tosses out some of the laws that were set by all previous movies in order to include more FX shenanigans. They took the potential realistic outcomes of events and made everything nonsensical. Characters that we know pretty well suddenly act completely against their nature. Honestly this stuff is more disappointing that all the terrible acting and stupid plots of the prequels because at least they stayed within the confines of the established lore about that universe.

I had a bad feeling about this move the moment it mentioned the complete and utter collapse of the New Republic, in a few days at best apparently. The equivalent of Cuba nuking DC, and only DC, then taking over the US in 24 hours.

I don't really care about whether it's a new direction or not, but I do have problems with this poorly written, tone deaf garbage with no sense of scale, Saturday cartoon joke villains, a female lead that is overpowered for no good reason other than for SJW pandering, pointless filler, and squandering every opportunity that TFA had set up before.

 

[Aikouka]

That Canadian dude is dead on. This movie was a total dis toward what Abrams laid out in the first one and what Lucas laid out over 6 other movies.

Who's idea was it to have 3 different directors?!?!?

I heard that Episode VII was setup without any clear goal of where it wanted to take those plot lines, which is part of why VIII felt so disconnected. Essentially, Johnson came in as writer/director and had no plans laid out for how these threads should progress/end. In other words, Abrams likely never established who Rey's parents were either.

Also, J.J. Abrams is coming back to direct episode IX. Rian Johnson will be helming the next trilogy though.

 

[zerocool84]

I heard that Episode VII was setup without any clear goal of where it wanted to take those plot lines, which is part of why VIII felt so disconnected. Essentially, Johnson came in as writer/director and had no plans laid out for how these threads should progress/end. In other words, Abrams likely never established who Rey's parents were either.

Also, J.J. Abrams is coming back to direct episode IX. Rian Johnson will be helming the next trilogy though.

AFAIK from reading stuff over the year of hype being built up for this was that Rian Johnson said that Disney said that the story was up to him and his writers to write the story. That's why the original trilogy worked so well even with three directors, Lucas had already everything set up story wise for the most part so even with three different takes on his story, they all had to stick to one overall story arc. That's precisely what is wrong with Last Jedi, no care for the overall story arc.

 

[local]

AFAIK from reading stuff over the year of hype being built up for this was that Rian Johnson said that Disney said that the story was up to him and his writers to write the story. That's why the original trilogy worked so well even with three directors, Lucas had already everything set up story wise for the most part so even with three different takes on his story, they all had to stick to one overall story arc. That's precisely what is wrong with Last Jedi, no care for the overall story arc.

That is certainly the way it seems but hell Disney owns Marvel Studios. They cannot be that retarded about overall story arcs when you have that giant pile of movies all tied into a single arc. And I think almost everyone knows the way Lucas developed the original trilogy what kind of short sighted idiot says nah we can make a trilogy without establishing where we want it to go one movie at a time. I can't believe that 7 and 8 are making me actually gain some respect back for Lucas just because he can successfully string a plot along three movies.