Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[Ancalagon44]

SPOILERS

I enjoyed the movie, but at the same time, I think the movie destroyed the entire Star Wars saga for me. It was all stuff I already knew, but seeing in on film made it so it sunk in differently than before. Like, the part where they go into the light and the dark constantly rising and matching one another. If the light side wins, then the dark side will rise up to challenge it. When the dark side wins, the light will be raised up to challenge it. Benicio del Toro's character then revealed that the Star Wars universe has this entire population of arms dealers playing both sides. I left wondering what was the point then? The story will just keep repeating itself over and over and over, but maybe that will be addressed in the final movie.

There were moments in the movie though that I felt were particularly well done. Some of the First Order commanders realizing what the resistance was doing with the dreadnought, but were unable to act out of disobedience to stop it. I thought they did a good job of reflecting on the small moments of absurdity in a good way, and siding with what the audience was already thinking. The burning of the tree was awesome.

But, yeah, taking a heavy cruiser and sending it into warp speed directly into the enemies super warship? I think that opened up a very bad can of worms for the rest of the series considering that could have been done to the past Death Stars, Super Star Destroyers, Star Killer Base, etc.

I would have loved to have seen more with Captain Phasma's character. I would have loved to have seen a lot more from Snoke's character. We will very much miss Carrie Fischer.

I think they hinted at this with stuff like saying you have to let the past die, kill it if you have to. I think in a way, they were referring to the past history of Star Wars. They wanted to break away from that, probably for commercial reasons.

Harrison Ford is out, Mark Hamill will have one or two more scenes if he is lucky, Carrie Fisher is out (although not the way anyone wanted), etc etc.

The movie did make me realize that, while George Lucas was criticized for the prequel trilogy A LOT, you can see what he did well in terms of character arcs and character development, and looking at a story from a wider point of view and not just thinking about one movie. He looked at movies a trilogy at a time and not just the box office results.

Dare I say it? I miss George Lucas's touch. He made mistakes, but he was also a creative professional.

 

[dud]

What I'm getting from people is that die hards hate it. Nit picking everything. Casuals like it cause it's still SW. I'm in between. Im not die hard or casual so I just think it was enjoyable meh. Like a Michael Bay movie. lol.

No one said that I was a "die hard" fan. While I have fond memories watching Star Wars in my youth, I have not seen a Star Wars movie in-theater in 15 years. You said it yourself ... the movie was "enjoyable" meh. That is what Disney, IMHO, has done to the franchise. No heart, little quality ... just meh.

 

[Ancalagon44]

I'm definitely not a hardcore SW fan, neither is my brother, and neither of us enjoyed it.

It isn't about whether it is true to Star Wars or not, it is just a bad movie.

 

[blankslate]

I think this video adequately sums up what I think are the flaws in the movie... At least it's good looking and well shot...

The video contains spoilers so don't watch unless you've seen the movie.

Spoiler

If Luke didn't want to be found then why the F@#K LEAVE A MAP SHOWING HOW TO F%#$#@G FIND HIM?!?!

edited to add
Here is a comment I found that highlights the disconnect between plot points in TFA and plot directions in TLJ aka a Plot Hole

Spoiler

The entire plot of The Force Awakens is about finding a map to Luke Skywalker but in The Last Jedi he tells Rey he went to Ach-To to die. So why the map? are u trolling me???

_____________

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Spoiler

Who is reys father? Luke? Obi Wan? I've read a handful of articles (see google) that give rational for Rey being Luke's son and I kinda agree. At the same time, we already know that Kaylo Ren's mom is Leia. Kinda makes sense to have these two being opposed and they are both actually conflicted per The Last Jedi

 

[glenn1]

Agreed.

5>4>Rogue One>6>8>7>3>1>2

I agree with the first part of your list but feel differently about the 2nd half.

5 > 4 > R1 > 6 > 7 > 3 > 2 > 8 > 1.

TPM to me is clearly the very worst of the entire series and I struggle to see why anyone sees anything redeeming in the entire film apart from Darth Maul. There was a lot of ridiculousness in 2 (including some of the worst dialogue ever put to film) but at least the film makes sense and has a coherent plot line which by itself puts it above 1 (boring as hell) and 8 (more pointless side plots, stupid McGuffins, and WTF moments than the rest of the series combined).

 

[dainthomas]

I agree with the first part of your list but feel differently about the 2nd half.

5 > 4 > R1 > 6 > 7 > 3 > 2 > 8 > 1.

TPM to me is clearly the very worst of the entire series and I struggle to see why anyone sees anything redeeming in the entire film apart from Darth Maul. There was a lot of ridiculousness in 2 (including some of the worst dialogue ever put to film) but at least the film makes sense and has a coherent plot line which by itself puts it above 1 (boring as hell) and 8 (more pointless side plots, stupid McGuffins, and WTF moments than the rest of the series combined).

I put 1 above 2 because the lightsaber battle between Obi Wan, Qui Gon, and Darth Maul is the best in the series (although the fight with Kylo, Rey, and Snoke's guards was really good visually). And the cringe-worthy dialogue of 2. I had 7 lower because, while good on its own, it was a complete rehash of 4.

 

[Majes]

I agree with the first part of your list but feel differently about the 2nd half.

5 > 4 > R1 > 6 > 7 > 3 > 2 > 8 > 1.

TPM to me is clearly the very worst of the entire series and I struggle to see why anyone sees anything redeeming in the entire film apart from Darth Maul. There was a lot of ridiculousness in 2 (including some of the worst dialogue ever put to film) but at least the film makes sense and has a coherent plot line which by itself puts it above 1 (boring as hell) and 8 (more pointless side plots, stupid McGuffins, and WTF moments than the rest of the series combined).

Im with your first 4 movie rankings but I have The Force Awakens and Attack of the Clones as the garbage movies in the series. The Force Awakens took some amazing EU story lines and replaced with with BIGGER, BADDER A NEW HOPE. The Phantom Menace ending sequence is possibly the best of the series. The Pod Race to Naboo climax is pretty solid and quite enjoyable to watch. I can't even watch Attack of the Clones because the acting is so poor... I'm not sure where 8 will end up, but it will be above 2 and 7 for sure, possible even with 3 and 1 for me. I don't think it sniffs the original three even though this is by far Mark Hamill's best acting.

So for now: 5 > 4/6 > R1 > 3/1 > 8 > 7/2 but I reserve the right to move 8 up a little once I watch it 300 times on Blu-ray.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

LOL:

4/5/6 > 3/7/8 > 1/2

An to be frank, it's more like

4/5/6 > 3/7/8 > Aliens versus Predator > kids TV programming > 1/2

 

[TXHokie]

I enjoyed the movie for what it is. Felt like a passing of the torch to the new generations of Star Wars fan and house cleaning of the old.

General Hux got roughed up pretty good in this movie. His job sucked.

 

[Red Storm]

While I enjoyed the movie, it was more so because it's a new Star Wars movie rather than the movie itself being amazing.

Pretty much all the space parts annoyed me though. Why do space bombers need to fly slowly and drop their payload from above their target? Why do ships lose their speed as fuel runs out? Why are these giant laser shots arcing like artillery projectiles? It's space not Earth's atmosphere!

Why hasn't the resistance built a fleet of cheap shuttles manned by 3POs and lightspeeded them into the First Order's fleet already. While it was extremely cool to see visually (probably my favorite part of the movie) - the viability of this tactic pretty much invalidated all previous Star Wars space related issues. Death Star would have been easy to take out, so would the Trade Federation blockade, etc.

There are times when you can ignore reality (i.e. nothing would be manually controlled/aimed by humans with this technology) in the name of fun, but I don't remember any Star Wars movie going so far against space physics before. This would have been fine in the 70s, but in this day and age after the likes of Battlestar Gallactica and The Expanse it just felt like a slap in the face.

 

[RichUK]

It's pants.

 

[RichUK]

While I enjoyed the movie, it was more so because it's a new Star Wars movie rather than the movie itself being amazing.

Pretty much all the space parts annoyed me though. Why do space bombers need to fly slowly and drop their payload from above their target? Why do ships lose their speed as fuel runs out? Why are these giant laser shots arcing like artillery projectiles? It's space not Earth's atmosphere!

Why hasn't the resistance built a fleet of cheap shuttles manned by 3POs and lightspeeded them into the First Order's fleet already. While it was extremely cool to see visually (probably my favorite part of the movie) - the viability of this tactic pretty much invalidated all previous Star Wars space related issues. Death Star would have been easy to take out, so would the Trade Federation blockade, etc.

There are times when you can ignore reality (i.e. nothing would be manually controlled/aimed by humans with this technology) in the name of fun, but I don't remember any Star Wars movie going so far against space physics before. This would have been fine in the 70s, but in this day and age after the likes of Battlestar Gallactica and The Expanse it just felt like a slap in the face.

My thoughts exactly, lol - I saw it today.

 

[RichUK]

I thought Snoke's character was a bit of a let down, especially as he was killed off relatively quickly and easily.

 

[paperfist]

I think this video adequately sums up what I think are the flaws in the movie... At least it's good looking and well shot...

The video contains spoilers so don't watch unless you've seen the movie.

Spoiler

If Luke didn't want to be found then why the F@#K LEAVE A MAP SHOWING HOW TO F%#$#@G FIND HIM?!?!

edited to add
Here is a comment I found that highlights the disconnect between plot points in TFA and plot directions in TLJ aka a Plot Hole

Spoiler

The entire plot of The Force Awakens is about finding a map to Luke Skywalker but in The Last Jedi he tells Rey he went to Ach-To to die. So why the map? are u trolling me???

_____________

That Canadian dude is dead on. This movie was a total dis toward what Abrams laid out in the first one and what Lucas laid out over 6 other movies.

Who's idea was it to have 3 different directors?!?!?

I think that was their intent, but it wasn't really powerful enough.

As I'm sitting here, I just thought of something that's bugging me more and more...

Spoiler: SPOILER

WHY DIDN'T LUKE'S HAND CLUNK DOWN TO THE GROUND WHEN HE DISAPPEARED????

I thought it conveyed it well if you look back at the whole movie. As has been commented on it was about forgetting the past.

Great point about Luke.

 

[Majes]

Why hasn't the resistance built a fleet of cheap shuttles manned by 3POs and lightspeeded them into the First Order's fleet already. While it was extremely cool to see visually (probably my favorite part of the movie) - the viability of this tactic pretty much invalidated all previous Star Wars space related issues. Death Star would have been easy to take out, so would the Trade Federation blockade, etc.

There are times when you can ignore reality (i.e. nothing would be manually controlled/aimed by humans with this technology) in the name of fun, but I don't remember any Star Wars movie going so far against space physics before. This would have been fine in the 70s, but in this day and age after the likes of Battlestar Gallactica and The Expanse it just felt like a slap in the face.

It's frustrating to read this in different places because it's just not a good complaint. The Mon Cal cruiser that splits Snoke's ship in two is probably about a third of the mass of Snoke's ship. It's not like an x-wing went to light speed and sliced it in two. That thing was massive. Also, if you consider the resources it takes to build and maintain ships like that, they just weren't throw away ships. It's also a huge mentality shift to suicide charge your capital ships into other ships that perhaps no one in the Star Wars universe was prepared to make before.

It sometimes takes cultures a while to adapt to new technologies or new ways to use technologies. I don't see any reason whatsoever that this invalidates the previous space battles. I just see a slight issue that can be closed any number of ways.

 

[Red Storm]

It's frustrating to read this in different places because it's just not a good complaint. The Mon Cal cruiser that splits Snoke's ship in two is probably about a third of the mass of Snoke's ship. It's not like an x-wing went to light speed and sliced it in two. That thing was massive. Also, if you consider the resources it takes to build and maintain ships like that, they just weren't throw away ships. It's also a huge mentality shift to suicide charge your capital ships into other ships that perhaps no one in the Star Wars universe was prepared to make before.

It sometimes takes cultures a while to adapt to new technologies or new ways to use technologies. I don't see any reason whatsoever that this invalidates the previous space battles. I just see a slight issue that can be closed any number of ways.

And not every First Order ship was as large as Snoke's, the other "big ships" were actually much smaller than the flagship, so yes a smaller ship would do immense damage to them.

Considering those bomber pilots were more than willing to die just so some of them could get in range, the resistance would have lost way less people had they employed the mass shuttle lightspeed tactic.

Keep in mind this is just one thing, there was so much wrong with how space flight/battle was portrayed in this movie it felt like we were back in the old days of sci fi.

 

[Nashemon]

Star Wars is my favorite thing in this world. The films, the games, the EU. All of it. It's hard for me to not like something from it as it only allows me to more deeply understand the galaxy far, far away. That said, I don't nerdgasm over it and I'm not into "Geek Culture." Not all of it is great. I did enjoy the original trilogy immensely more than the prequels. Rogue One blew my socks off. Despite the rehash many reference about TFA, I actually completely disagree and enjoyed it thoroughly. I thought the characters were awesome and made me care for them. TLJ didn't draw me in right away. It certainly wasn't my favorite film, and I'm really not sure I liked most of it. What it did have, I thought was shot well. There was no awkward dialog like most of the prequels. There was one screen wipe I thought unnecessarily interrupted the flow, but that's a nitpick.

Spoiler

Luke was the main focus of it, and the rest of the characters really didn't get enough screen time because of that, but the movie wasn't really about them. Even when Rey showed up at the end, I had completely forgotten about her. I love Laura Dern, but this movie didn't need her. If they were going to kill off Ackbar anyway, it should have been him in her role.

It's the peril film, and I think a lot of effort was put into not just rehashing V. It's personal conflicts within each character as well as the whole of the resistance being mostly crushed again. Poe and Finn both got a ton of people killed and lost a lot of rebel ships. They both know that. Finn's been trying to get out since we met him and went from that to sacrificing himself as redemption, which made that scene powerful. Kylo's immaturity and rage matches Anakin's.

Some of the complaints I've read I can't make heads or tails of them. I'll touch on the major one I keep reading, and limit it to that to avoid making this post longer than it already is.

"We never find out who Snoke is and where he came from? We know where Sidious came from!" Yeah, we know that because ~20 years later they made 3 more movies that told us that story. Before that we had no clue, and nobody cared. Have we forgotten Maul? Dooku? Grievous? Tarkin? Fett? Truth is, it doesn't matter where they came from. The story ultimately isn't about them.

Most of the fan reviews are hilarious. They're like a self-help therapy session trying to make sense of their life. Several of them start with staying that the film is pointless and leaves nowhere for the story to go, then they end with a half dozen questions they want answered. They realize that there will be another movie, right?

 

[Nashemon]

That Canadian dude is dead on. This movie was a total dis toward what Abrams laid out in the first one and what Lucas laid out over 6 other movies.

Who's idea was it to have 3 different directors?!?!?

Probably George Lucas' idea, since he had different directors for all three of the original trilogy, too.

 

[Homerboy]

I put 1 above 2 because the lightsaber battle between Obi Wan, Qui Gon, and Darth Maul is the best in the series (although the fight with Kylo, Rey, and Snoke's guards was really good visually). And the cringe-worthy dialogue of 2. I had 7 lower because, while good on its own, it was a complete rehash of 4.

2 just isn't the worst SW movie, it's in the top 10 worst movies PERIOD. It's HORRIBLE. The "love story"? The dialogue? The EVERYTHING? The frolicking in the meadows?! OMG .... just HORRIBLE.

 

[UberNeuman]

I really loved the part of the movie when they cut into Maz Kanata's Twitch stream..

 

[local]

It's frustrating to read this in different places because it's just not a good complaint. The Mon Cal cruiser that splits Snoke's ship in two is probably about a third of the mass of Snoke's ship. It's not like an x-wing went to light speed and sliced it in two. That thing was massive. Also, if you consider the resources it takes to build and maintain ships like that, they just weren't throw away ships. It's also a huge mentality shift to suicide charge your capital ships into other ships that perhaps no one in the Star Wars universe was prepared to make before.

It sometimes takes cultures a while to adapt to new technologies or new ways to use technologies. I don't see any reason whatsoever that this invalidates the previous space battles. I just see a slight issue that can be closed any number of ways.

I found a guesstimate on the mass of an X-Wing and some physicists calculations on the amount of energy required to destroy a planet.

If an X-Wings weight is based roughly on the weight of an F-22, then it should weight somewhere in the realm of 12,000 lbs.
At the speed of light, assuming impact at the exact moment it passes the speed of light, it would have approximately 2.44596e+20 Joules of kinetic energy.
The physicists calculated it would take 2e+27 Joules of energy to destroy an earth sized planet.
The Death Stars superlaser fired for three seconds which gives it a minimum rating of 6.67e+26 Watts.
Our sun has an estimated energy output of 3.846e+26 Watts which is less than the superlaser, I think.

At this point I know there is a way to calculate how much energy is in the lightspeed X-Wing compared to the minimum possible rating of the superlaser but I am way too lazy to learn how to jack with new kinds of math right now. I do know that to convert the X-Wings energy to Watts requires a duration and I'm guessing that duration would only be a tiny fraction of a second which in my first attempts put it's energy up near the superlaser in Watts.

So if that is accurate they could remote pilot every X-Wing like a tiny self contained instant superlaser, I am probably wrong but I do know any decent amount of mass at the speed of light has a stupid huge amount of energy. That cruiser probably had enough energy to create a black hole.

 

[Homerboy]

I really loved the part of the movie when they cut into Maz Kanata's Twitch stream..

Ugh.
Cringe worthy.

 

[Exterous]

Why are these giant laser shots arcing like artillery projectiles? It's space not Earth's atmosphere!

Right? Regardless Admiral dumbass should have been able to maneuver the cruiser to block those shots. But maybe she felt responsible for all the deaths she caused by not communicating her plan with anyone ever. Instead she goes with the "Faith in the force" bs

Why hasn't the resistance built a fleet of cheap shuttles manned by 3POs and lightspeeded them into the First Order's fleet already. While it was extremely cool to see visually (probably my favorite part of the movie) - the viability of this tactic pretty much invalidated all previous Star Wars space related issues. Death Star would have been easy to take out, so would the Trade Federation blockade, etc.

We were talking about this at work and how that basically broke the SW universe. She didn't even need to suicide the ship as it was - they fucking have droids.

I found a guesstimate on the mass of an X-Wing and some physicists calculations on the amount of energy required to destroy a planet.

It doesn't even need to be that fancy. Bring a bunch of rocks or grab some from the asteroid belts that exist in most solar systems, strap on a few hyperdrives, add in a droid per rock and you now have a wall of relativistic missiles to throw at the enemy. Instawin

 

[NoTine42]

Spoiler

Who is reys father? Luke? Obi Wan? I've read a handful of articles (see google) that give rational for Rey being Luke's son and I kinda agree. At the same time, we already know that Kaylo Ren's mom is Leia. Kinda makes sense to have these two being opposed and they are both actually conflicted per The Last Jedi

Spoiler: Spoiler

Snoke? They both have unknown origins and they are both strong with the force