Star Wars Battlefront II

[[DHT]Osiris]

Apparently they were just going to weather the bad press ala Mass Effect and make a killing off the players with deep pockets despite 70k canceled preorders, but Disney stepped in and forced their hand. EA is NOT happy. But if there is one thing Disney cannot stand, it is negative buzz circulating one of their big franchises on the eve of a huge theatrical release and while EA is the 800 pound gorilla in gaming, there are some companies not even they can push around.

In my head, I see the scene from the first Avengers movie involving the encounter between Hulk and Loki. EA is Loki, very sure of themselves. Disney is Hulk, deciding they've enough shenanigans for today.

 

[foghorn67]

Bought it and love it. I don't see myself paying for crystals/cards/whatevers. I'll just have fun with it.
Don't admit that on Ars, you'll probably get death threats.

 

[moonbogg]

Loot boxes are in-game slot machines targeted toward kids and people with addictive behavior. The instant I realized what a loot box was (while playing Rocket League) I was shocked and realized exactly what this whole thing was all about. I was even more shocked to see some people here and elsewhere defend this crap.
Its all going to come crashing down now. Loot boxes are a form of gambling and everyone knows it now.

 

[Zenoth]

Alright, I bought it (and I planned to anyway).

I won't go on with a novel as to why, nor do I need to. I could just say that the gist is that the Star Wars universe means a lot to me and leave it at that; however, it doesn't mean I buy every single one of them. I genuinely did skip the first Battlefront (well, you know, 2015's) and I'm not saying this to sort of 'defend' myself. I simply had my own reasons then, which ironically weren't related to EA or Disney or anything about bad "business practices", well perhaps other than the initial price being absolute insanity at about $130 (in Canadian dollars) at the time for the then-Deluxe edition (not even the "Ultimate" one that came out later after all the DLCs were out; THEN the prices started to go down sure, but not at the beginning).

The summery is that this time around they provided in Battlefront 2 pretty much 90% of the things I wished were in the first. The only thing that 'disappointed' me initially for BF2 when they started to announce the final game features on the official web site was - once more - their apparent obsession with not going above the (now seemingly absolute universal) limit of 40 players maximum for the largest maps. To this day I cannot fathom why, especially considering it's DICE (known to support and knowing how to do 64 players at least in their Battlefield franchise) but also because it's the same engine (albeit of course I imagine with "modifications" in comparison) as Battlefield 4's and 1's. But overall almost everything they added for BF2 that didn't exist in BF1 is not only welcome, some of those things I didn't even imagine they would bother doing such as their 'Arcade' mode which surprisingly adds a lot of replay value to the game overall. There's some custom game values that can be changed that I like to refer to as "mutators" since they're what those options remind me of, it's in the same veins (well there's of course no Big Head, Low Grav or Instagib going on there but a couple of values can be changed to modify the game past / beyond the otherwise default settings for any given map you choose). Heck, who bothers with Bots nowadays? I'm just glad the mode is there, since if I ever get "tired" (permanently or momentarily) by multiplayer I can just jump in Arcade mode and have a blast there. I actually did already, with a 51 minutes-long game in a 10 Vs 10 on Tatooine infantry-based team deathmatch with a total score of 999 (that's why it took 51 minutes), and went through every single Heroes as well and just had fun.

So far I haven't even touched the actual multiplayer and I love it. Yes, I LOVE it. It's a GREAT action Star Wars game. And since I skipped the first one (literally just played the open Beta of 2015's BF for maybe 2 or 3 days and that was it) this game is the first 'modern' Star Wars game I get to play since... hummm... let me think. Since... The Force Unleashed maybe? Yeah, I'd say since that one (which on a side note I REALLY liked, too; great game the first one, the second one was horrible in comparison but that's another story).

I finished the campaign, which I'd rate to about 7.5 / 10, it's solid. It could have had better story pacing, more "meat" around the bones to explore more of Iden as a character which I think is a great addition to the Star Wars cast of known / important characters (at least within canon, since BF2's campaign is indeed apparently canon material). It had an... interesting ending, and I'll stop right here about that. I liked how it connects Force Awakens from Episode 6, albeit it doesn't in the way I thought it would. But I wasn't honestly expecting much from BF2's campaign anyway. They probably only had a big one and a half year to work on it max, and maybe that's pushing it. So considering the amount of time they had because the scheduled release I'd say I'm impressed, especially when BF2 is a game primarily made for multiplayer. I'm just glad that they not only "bothered" with a campaign, but they didn't just make one to get rid of it. They took some time and considerable efforts into making the actual campaign that we have. The voice acting is mostly excellent for the whole thing, the actors were good again pretty much for the whole thing, the new characters (Iden, Del, etc) of Inferno Squad and the others were good. The fact that we can see at least in part some of the Empire's point of views on some events was not only fun, but it's also RARE when something like that happens in general Star Wars media, be it in video games or movies (save for playing Sith Empire campaigns in The Old Republic perhaps, or playing something like The Force Unleashed or going all the way back to the TIE Fighter games).

Now the more predictable, straightforward stuff. Let's just put it this way: Graphics is 10/10, Sounds is 10/10 (it's freakin' Star Wars), Music is 100/10 (do I even have to explain why), but that stuff is a given by now isn't it. We knew BF2's graphics, sounds and music would rule. It's easy to give perfect scores there so much so that it's almost meaningless now (seriously, how does one "screw up" Star Wars sounds and music anyway, that'd be like screwing up a cup of coffee; no one does that NO ONE, k). The animations too, superb. What else? Textures? Well that's part of the graphics in general, it's amazing when the thing runs on Ultra. Maybe the Optimization in general, yeah let's go with that. It's VERY well optimized. My system's specs are in my signature, it's a typical mid-end modern gaming system and my GTX 970 seems to have absolutely zero issues with the game running light speeds on DX12 too (which isn't activated by default). I haven't checked my actual frames rate but it's smooth, there's no stuttering, no very noticeable glitches yet (no audio or visual ones anyway that I could see or hear) and seems to be at least around 45 maybe up to 50+ in most cases (talking about campaign and the Arcade game I had with 19 Bots in). Maybe it'll have some slow downs in some of the big multiplayer maps that I haven't looked at yet. But generally-speaking it's amazingly optimized but so was 2015's BF from what I can recall back during the open Beta.

So, yep. There, Star Wars: Battlefront II is a GREAT Star Wars game and I am not ashamed to say it.

I don't want to know if DICE actually wanted that progression system to exist in the first place, or if they did, that they wanted it to be exactly the way it is right now. Maybe, maybe not. The only thing I can do is to not buy loot boxes with real money, and I DO of course definitely plan to do just that. However, WHY would at least buying the base game and simply staying away from the loot boxes be a problem? I don't think it is, honestly. I'm 500% convinced (yeah, that much) that most if not all of the BF2 team over at DICE put their heart and soul into technically MAKING this game. I do see a lot of examples of attention to details in this game that - to me - means that at least some people in the team were actually genuinely happy to work on it and wanted, WANTED it to be successful not necessarily for EA or Disney, but for GAMERS and Star Wars fans alike (and themselves as devs, too). Maybe I'm seeing too much pink through my glasses... I dunno. I just want to believe that some people out there cares about this franchise. So I DO think that it IS possible to BOTH support DICE as a dev team that does fully deserve the money for their amazing overall work on BF2 AND not support EA / Disney in their business practice by simply ignoring the loot box system's option to acquire more of those via real world money. In other words, just accumulate regular in-game credits even if it takes "ages" to accomplish anything; if you TRULY don't want to NOT support that system then you WILL 'tolerate' the grind and show the finger to EA that way and that's exactly what I'm going to do.

But, ultimately, in NO way would I actually encourage people to simply not buy the base game because they're unhappy with the progression system and how pay to win it ultimately is (which I do NOT deny it IS). The point is to support DICE themselves but sending a message to EA and Disney at the same time. Buy the game, but don't buy loot boxes with real money. I honestly think that it's exaggeration to 'boycott' the whole base game. That won't send the right message to EA. The right message is "We don't want that type of micro transaction / pay-to-win / gambling-based progression system", rather than "We don't want your Star Wars games". That's how I see it anyway (I suppose I did end up explaining my views more than I initially wanted heh... oh well; I always end up typing novels even when I don't want to).

 

[moonbogg]

By supporting this game at this critical time, you contribute to the doom of the entire gaming industry. Just telling it like it is.

 

[frowertr]

I cant believe you guys are buying this. So you are ok with how EA handled this game and it willingness to milk you dry like a dairy cow? Wow...

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

But, ultimately, in NO way would I actually encourage people to simply not buy the base game because they're unhappy with the progression system and how pay to win it ultimately is (which I do NOT deny it IS). The point is to support DICE themselves but sending a message to EA and Disney at the same time. Buy the game, but don't buy loot boxes with real money. I honestly think that it's exaggeration to 'boycott' the whole base game. That won't send the right message to EA. The right message is "We don't want that type of micro transaction / pay-to-win / gambling-based progression system", rather than "We don't want your Star Wars games". That's how I see it anyway (I suppose I did end up explaining my views more than I initially wanted heh... oh well; I always end up typing novels even when I don't want to).

Is it really enough to buy the game and just not buy microtransactions? That will only cause them to try to find another tactic to replace microtransactions.

As for supporting DICE themselves, DICE was bought by EA in 2004. I just don't see them as having any ideological distinctiveness separate from EA anymore. But if you have insider knowledge of them that suggests there IS still good in them, that'd be interesting to know.

 

[Malogeek]

@Zenoth all the parts if the game you've experienced and enjoyed have nothing to do with the loot boxes. For those buying the game for the multiplayer primarily (most people), it's genuinely a big issue.

You say simply don't buy loot boxes but for those that want to experience a lot of the games heroes and progress through the upgrades, it's simply going to take them hundreds/thousands of hours to get there without buying loot boxes. That's the problem.

So yes, enjoy the game you've purchased and be happy with that. But their efforts and the quality of the game shouldn't excuse what they've done with it for progression, rewards and enticing people to spend large amounts to get anywhere.

 

[foghorn67]

By supporting this game at this critical time, you contribute to the doom of the entire gaming industry. Just telling it like it is.

Or most other AA titles in the past few years.

 

[Zenoth]

@Zenoth all the parts if the game you've experienced and enjoyed have nothing to do with the loot boxes. For those buying the game for the multiplayer primarily (most people), it's genuinely a big issue.

You say simply don't buy loot boxes but for those that want to experience a lot of the games heroes and progress through the upgrades, it's simply going to take them hundreds/thousands of hours to get there without buying loot boxes. That's the problem.

So yes, enjoy the game you've purchased and be happy with that. But their efforts and the quality of the game shouldn't excuse what they've done with it for progression, rewards and enticing people to spend large amounts to get anywhere.

I completely agree, and you're one of the few here who actually understand what I was saying.

Your reply is a much more intelligent and mature way to argument on the whole subject, instead of blowing things out of proportions like moonbogg replied; by saying something like "You're contributing to the doom of the entire gaming industry". That make me sound way too important, like I could be the main Sith villain of the next trilogy after Episode 9. Hey, don't get me wrong, I like grandiose statements and over dramatization especially in movies. But please, PUH-LEASE, buying BF2 would suddenly mean that the entire gaming industry would come down crashing and everything about it is doomed? I hate EA's business practices and how much damage they've done and still want to do in the industry, yes. Yes, I absolutely do (and I don't give a sh- if anyone here doesn't "believe" it). But holy mother of... exaggeration has its place sometimes, but this is just beyond even that.

So yeah, I mostly play (and now re-play) the campaign, and stick to Arcade mode so far and I've enjoyed every bits of those modes. Maybe I'm "lucky" for not being 'affected' by the progression nor that I actually care about it. Maybe buying the base game and simply not buying loot boxes (which on a side note we can't do anyway at this time since they removed microtransactions, probably temporarily of course) IS the wrong thing to do. Maybe I should just say that, ultimately, they got me by my Star Wars "fanboy" balls by simply releasing a new Star Wars game as much as Nintendo got me by my nostalgia almost exclusively with their first party franchises since the past 20 years or so. Maybe THAT is really what's going on, sure. You know what, I'm not quite realizing but perhaps I simply WAS blinded by my love of the Star Wars universe and bought it. I did skip 2015's BF... and I do know why, due to the lack of content and interesting modes; and no campaign... just... lack of content overall especially prior to the release of the following DLCs, and also an insane initial price. So by now I was simply way past due for a new modern Star Wars game and as soon as I saw that they wanted to add a campaign, especially one that's set in the Empire (at least partly so... something I wasn't expecting really; I did expect it to be ENTIRELY set within the Empire but... anyway I'll stop in case I go into spoilers) I couldn't turn my back on that (it's also linked to the reasons why I think that The Old Republic's Sith Warrior campaign, with the Emperor's Wrath is one of the best thing I experienced in the Star Wars universe since Knights of the Old Republic, and pretty much the same thing happened with the Imperial Agent campaign).

Anyway. It's possible that, in retrospect, I'll "change my mind" about what I've done later. Maybe I did push a big "END OF THE GAMING INDUSTRY: PLEASE, DO NOT PUSH" button and just couldn't read the obvious warning on it. Maybe I will forever go down in history as the catalyst for the end and magical disappearance of Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Ubisoft, BioWare, Sega, Bethesda, Blizzard, Activision and EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. OF. THEM. Time will tell.

 

[Stg-Flame]

The point is to support DICE themselves but sending a message to EA and Disney at the same time.

Yes, you're sending the message they've known forever - that it doesn't matter how bad they bend you over, you'll throw wads of cash at them and ask for more. Just because you bought the game but only stick to single player doesn't send them a message, it sends them a deposit into their bank account. Gamers are finally rallying around a good cause and gullible shmucks like you are ruining it for everyone by continuing to buy their game. I know it's not you personally, but you're not helping anything but continuing to purchase their products.

There's people in this thread (like that joke of a parent) who will continue to be the reason why companies like EA will forever get away with locking content behind huge paywalls.

Anyways, has anyone addressed the issue about EA locking credits for a certain time? Apparently some streamer caught it on video where he was playing some skirmish mode (Arcade mode?) and after the end of the battle, it said he can keep playing but won't earn credits for another X hour simply because he played the mode too much. Also, the Belgian Justice System is investigating Battlefront 2 for allegations for online gambling. If they find that lootboxes fall under the criteria for gambling, all copies will be immediately pulled from all EU shelves and online distributors for EU regions. There's some speculation about requiring valid identification for anyone buying/playing the game or just locking the lootboxes away behind an authentication form like they do on gambling websites. From talking with a buddy of mine overseas, he says a few places in Europe strictly forbid all forms of gambling and if a game features it, it will be forever banned in that country. Not to mention if the Belgian Justice System label lootboxes as a form of gambling, it could open the floodgates for other countries to do the same. It might not seem like a big deal, but it could potentially snowball into something that forever changes lootboxes in gaming.

Besides, can you imagine what would happen if someone comes out and accuses Disney of promoting online gambling to children?

 

[Zenoth]

Yes, you're sending the message they've known forever - that it doesn't matter how bad they bend you over, you'll throw wads of cash at them and ask for more. Just because you bought the game but only stick to single player doesn't send them a message, it sends them a deposit into their bank account. Gamers are finally rallying around a good cause and gullible shmucks like you are ruining it for everyone by continuing to buy their game. I know it's not you personally, but you're not helping anything but continuing to purchase their products.

There's people in this thread (like that joke of a parent) who will continue to be the reason why companies like EA will forever get away with locking content behind huge paywalls.

Anyways, has anyone addressed the issue about EA locking credits for a certain time? Apparently some streamer caught it on video where he was playing some skirmish mode (Arcade mode?) and after the end of the battle, it said he can keep playing but won't earn credits for another X hour simply because he played the mode too much. Also, the Belgian Justice System is investigating Battlefront 2 for allegations for online gambling. If they find that lootboxes fall under the criteria for gambling, all copies will be immediately pulled from all EU shelves and online distributors for EU regions. There's some speculation about requiring valid identification for anyone buying/playing the game or just locking the lootboxes away behind an authentication form like they do on gambling websites. From talking with a buddy of mine overseas, he says a few places in Europe strictly forbid all forms of gambling and if a game features it, it will be forever banned in that country. Not to mention if the Belgian Justice System label lootboxes as a form of gambling, it could open the floodgates for other countries to do the same. It might not seem like a big deal, but it could potentially snowball into something that forever changes lootboxes in gaming.

Besides, can you imagine what would happen if someone comes out and accuses Disney of promoting online gambling to children?

You really don't have to pretend to be politically correct with me. It's not "me personally", yeah, except it is.

I don't have to excuse anything to anybody here. I've done my share of 'boycotts' before, and games skipping with various companies (devs and publishers alike, and not just EA either). I've done my share of not buying DLCs as well. I've "given", I've "done my part". I can't prove it, and I don't want to, nor should you either if you can say the same for yourself. Yeah, portray me as a monster or something if it makes you feel better. But if you want to insult, don't do it while pretending that you're avoiding an immature way to go about it.

Besides, I know there's no way for me to know it, but I'd be curious to see all of the 'virtuous' gamers' purchase history around here (and anywhere else) to see if they are REALLY, 100% "clear". If you speak against me, against my "action" and against anyone else in this thread or anywhere else on the web; against the "BF2 buyers" crowd, even if their 'intention' was "good" (while being gullible shmucks, of course) then I hope that at the very least you'll have the decency to look at yourself in the mirror (perhaps literally, too) and ask yourself if you've ever been part of the "worst of the worst" (apparently so) of the audience. Some of you here, whom are seemingly void of stains in any way, shape and form (for NEVER, ever genuinely buying a 'controversial' game, or a game in which an 'exploitative' / gambling-like system was in place, be it from EA or not) currently are or have been part of the "problem" in the past as well. And I'm not even starting on the 'grey market' game purchases front. Do NOT pretend to be perfect, directly or indirectly.

As much as I don't care if Nintendo got my CAN $97 for buying Breath of the Wild, a game made by a company that is supposedly "family and kids friendly" (as if, AS IF Disney are, too) with a Season Pass knowing very well that all the fans would fall for it (doesn't matter if there's no loot boxes or gambling per se, the point is they got nostalgia addicts by the balls). When I enjoy something, or I know I will, I pay for it and my intention is to say thanks for the actual people responsible behind the real work, the handwork, the dev team. Obviously Nintendo got all (or most) of the money, but I have NO OTHER WAY to send money directly to the devs. Do I make a personal check for every single one of them individually? Do I fly over to Japan and get to their studio, then contact and ask them to meet me at my hotel to pay them in cash one by one with a lineup?

Of course EA is going to get my CAN $67 for BF2 (GreenManGaming purchase, side note), I have no other way to send it directly to DICE nor would it be possible to anyway. But my intention is to say thanks to THEM, not EA. I know DICE won't see the color of my money for them. It's like voting, a move of trust, thanks and confidence. How the fuck do I 'support' a group, a party, if I simply stand back and don't vote at all? Did I contribute to ANYTHING that way? I HAVE to make a move. And all I can do to thank a team that worked on a game for maybe two years of their life is to buy it. And at the same time, not give a rat's ass about the lot boxes. It's the only thing I can do if I also happen to want to support a dev team while not supporting the hand that feeds them. I KNOW the money goes to EA, I KNOW the only messages they understand is the lack of sales and profits in their pockets, and know that the only "real" way to send them a message is to simply not buy the game, period. But I DO want to support DICE, how do I do that exactly? I just tell them "Welp, sorry guys, your game is ACTUALLY good, but suck it up and die because you work for EA"? THAT is the right thing to do?! Let them die?

At this point, I want DICE themselves to do THEIR fight as well internally. I'm sure they have way more power than perhaps they themselves think. Who else will make EA's precious Battlefront series otherwise? For now DICE is way too profitable to shut them down if they 'rebelled'. They are CONTRACTED to make Star Wars games for Disney and EA (well mostly EA, as long as EA has the agreement going from Disney). What about DICE fighting back and telling whoever is in charge to also suck it up if they do want their Star Wars game now? I mean shit, if I was them I'd just threaten to sabotage the whole thing at this point if the Execs don't change their mind and don't put a break on their obsession for sucking the Shareholders' schlongs all day long. There's other ways to make money like... * drum rolls * DAMN, what about simply making a good game?! What an interesting concept! But I myself cannot help DICE doing that fight. If my "help" for them is to NOT buy their game then I'm sure that EA will perceive them as non profitable and we all know what that means. I genuinely do NOT want to see DICE biting the dust.

Anyway, I don't know what happened internally but DICE's CEO for now apparently acts (or has been payed to act) like the scapegoat with that "We're sorry" message (heh, maybe it was genuine, but I feel like it's just Public Relations for now and got someone more important than himself on the phone telling him to do it) and the temporary removal of the Crystals purchase with real money. I've NEVER seen that happen before (from EA, or any other publishers that I can think of right now), so sure, something happened internally. The question I have in mind is WHO made that decision. Was it DICE that said "enough is enough"? Or was it EA that realized that too much damage had been done and they absolutely have to do something as drastic as simply removing the whole micro transaction system from the game? Or was it Disney now that they might "fear" the investigation that's going on now in Belgium and the Netherlands? I don't know. But I wish that DICE had something to do about it. I want them to defend themselves too. I don't know what's going on over there and yes I hope for the best.

But ultimately I, myself, only wanted to "thank" DICE. And just sending them a personal e-mail to them without paying for their game and pirating it wasn't an option that I was contemplating. I wanted BF2, I was pleased by the announcement of the game's features compared to BF1. My way to say thanks to double BF1's content with a campaign was to buy the damn thing. And my way to not support EA was to ignore the micro transactions. Simply not buying the game at all to me is also showing the finger to the entire DICE team behind BF2 while I know very well that many of them are genuinely disgusted to work for EA and know internally that shit would hit the fan with a progression system like that, but were "forced" (or "convinced") to do it anyway; but that's NOT DICE, that's EA. I'm not going to just sit there waiting for DICE to either leave EA (if they can) on their own, or waiting for them to be shut down in 2 or 3 years from now like Visceral Games and so many other EA-purchased studios before them.

But whatever, some people are hellbent to hate others on a molecular level and regardless what you're trying to point at they'll believe otherwise. It goes for both sides (you can believe that's exactly the case for me, for being gullible; and me thinking the same about you for thinking that every single person on this planet who DARED buying BF2 because they simply enjoy it as a video game are in fact as much monsters as EA themselves).

 

[Stg-Flame]

You really don't have to pretend to be politically correct with me.

I wasn't being politically correct. Nothing in my post was politically correct.

Besides, that was one hell of a long post just to roundabout deflect on everyone else here. The whole point of this boycott is to send a message to EA that we are tired of seeing content locked behind massive paywalls and grindfests. Even if that Redditor's estimates were off about how long and how much it takes to unlock all the content, that's still a ridiculous amount and seeing people trying to justify their reasons for buying the game anyways is just sad. You're aware of the problem but you don't care. Trying to say that anyone else in this thread is guilty in one way or another of the same thing is irrelevant since the past doesn't matter. Boycotts in the past didn't work because the boycotts for previous games were (usually) outright stupid (Resident Evil 5's "racism" for example). This one has already seen effect take place but the temporary removal of microtransactions is just that - temporary. Since Disney is involved, gamers have a lot of ground to stand on since Disney will not abide by bad press and if people start coming at them with allegations of online gambling in their new Star Wars game - right before their new Star Wars movie - it will get results.

Most of us here have been gaming for a long time and we've seen the trend of getting nickle and dimed continue to greater extents with each passing generation simply because kids these days are too impatient and are more than happy to open their wallets (or their parent's wallets) to speed things up. It was never this bad until mobile games like Clash of Clans came around, but once AAA developers and publishers saw people dumping hundreds of dollars into mobile games every week, they saw it as a good opportunity to do the same outside of mobile gaming. The stupid part was that is actually worked. People bitched and complained, but in the end, a good chunk of the playerbase were dropping a few dollars here and a few dollars there for meaningless skins, so it only seemed like a good idea to them that if people would pay a few dollars for a different skin, they would definitely sink even more into buying a playable character.

 

[Ancalagon44]

Zenoth I don't think you understood what Malogeek was saying.

Even if you don't buy microtransactions, you are saying to EA/DICE that it is okay to make a game with deliberately slow progression in order to fit microtransactions in. Make no mistake - the game you played is worse than it should be because of microtransactions, EVEN if you don't use them. They designed the entire game around microtransactions.

You have just sent a $60 message to say that is okay and you don't mind being taken advantage of.

Were you so desperate to play this game that you couldn't wait until it went on sale? Or into Origin Access? You didn't play the first one after all. A game is a game is a game is a game. You can still have fun without playing this particular one.

As an aside, I think the modern video game marketing engine is VERY good at making people think they have to play a specific game - if you don't play it, you are missing out! It's one of a kind! All of your friends are having fun in it - where are you? Only $59.99! This game is definitely going to be an EXPERIENCE different to all other games and you won't want to miss out.

The reality is, only about 1 in 100 AA or AAA games will be talked about 10 years later.

EDIT:

Of course EA is going to get my CAN $67 for BF2 (GreenManGaming purchase, side note), I have no other way to send it directly to DICE nor would it be possible to anyway. But my intention is to say thanks to THEM, not EA. I know DICE won't see the color of my money for them. It's like voting, a move of trust, thanks and confidence. How the *** do I 'support' a group, a party, if I simply stand back and don't vote at all? Did I contribute to ANYTHING that way? I HAVE to make a move. And all I can do to thank a team that worked on a game for maybe two years of their life is to buy it. And at the same time, not give a rat's ass about the lot boxes. It's the only thing I can do if I also happen to want to support a dev team while not supporting the hand that feeds them. I KNOW the money goes to EA, I KNOW the only messages they understand is the lack of sales and profits in their pockets, and know that the only "real" way to send them a message is to simply not buy the game, period. But I DO want to support DICE, how do I do that exactly? I just tell them "Welp, sorry guys, your game is ACTUALLY good, but suck it up and die because you work for EA"? THAT is the right thing to do?! Let them die?

First, a very small amount of your money will ever reach DICE. Second, EA usually has contractual clauses that bonuses will be paid depending on metacritic score. Because this game's metacritic rating is currently not good, the developers at DICE will likely not be getting bonuses for it.

If that happens, even less of your money will ever reach DICE.

Is DICE in danger of being shut down? I don't think so. Their work on the Battlefield series means they are safe for now.

So, there is little you can do to either prevent the shutdown of DICE or reward the members of DICE, unless you contact them directly. What you have done is sent a message to EA that this is okay.

Make no mistake - at the end of the fiscal year, when targets are missed, shareholders will ask questions about why targets were missed. EA will have to mention Battlefront 2 and the microtransactions saga. Based on that, compensation for execs might be affected. THAT will change behaviour. You buying the game gets them closer to hitting their target and incentivizes them to not change their behaviour.

 

[moonbogg]

You really don't have to pretend to be politically correct with me. It's not "me personally", yeah, except it is.

I don't have to excuse anything to anybody here. I've done my share of 'boycotts' before, and games skipping with various companies (devs and publishers alike, and not just EA either). I've done my share of not buying DLCs as well. I've "given", I've "done my part". I can't prove it, and I don't want to, nor should you either if you can say the same for yourself. Yeah, portray me as a monster or something if it makes you feel better. But if you want to insult, don't do it while pretending that you're avoiding an immature way to go about it.

Besides, I know there's no way for me to know it, but I'd be curious to see all of the 'virtuous' gamers' purchase history around here (and anywhere else) to see if they are REALLY, 100% "clear". If you speak against me, against my "action" and against anyone else in this thread or anywhere else on the web; against the "BF2 buyers" crowd, even if their 'intention' was "good" (while being gullible shmucks, of course) then I hope that at the very least you'll have the decency to look at yourself in the mirror (perhaps literally, too) and ask yourself if you've ever been part of the "worst of the worst" (apparently so) of the audience. Some of you here, whom are seemingly void of stains in any way, shape and form (for NEVER, ever genuinely buying a 'controversial' game, or a game in which an 'exploitative' / gambling-like system was in place, be it from EA or not) currently are or have been part of the "problem" in the past as well. And I'm not even starting on the 'grey market' game purchases front. Do NOT pretend to be perfect, directly or indirectly.

As much as I don't care if Nintendo got my CAN $97 for buying Breath of the Wild, a game made by a company that is supposedly "family and kids friendly" (as if, AS IF Disney are, too) with a Season Pass knowing very well that all the fans would fall for it (doesn't matter if there's no loot boxes or gambling per se, the point is they got nostalgia addicts by the balls). When I enjoy something, or I know I will, I pay for it and my intention is to say thanks for the actual people responsible behind the real work, the handwork, the dev team. Obviously Nintendo got all (or most) of the money, but I have NO OTHER WAY to send money directly to the devs. Do I make a personal check for every single one of them individually? Do I fly over to Japan and get to their studio, then contact and ask them to meet me at my hotel to pay them in cash one by one with a lineup?

Of course EA is going to get my CAN $67 for BF2 (GreenManGaming purchase, side note), I have no other way to send it directly to DICE nor would it be possible to anyway. But my intention is to say thanks to THEM, not EA. I know DICE won't see the color of my money for them. It's like voting, a move of trust, thanks and confidence. How the fuck do I 'support' a group, a party, if I simply stand back and don't vote at all? Did I contribute to ANYTHING that way? I HAVE to make a move. And all I can do to thank a team that worked on a game for maybe two years of their life is to buy it. And at the same time, not give a rat's ass about the lot boxes. It's the only thing I can do if I also happen to want to support a dev team while not supporting the hand that feeds them. I KNOW the money goes to EA, I KNOW the only messages they understand is the lack of sales and profits in their pockets, and know that the only "real" way to send them a message is to simply not buy the game, period. But I DO want to support DICE, how do I do that exactly? I just tell them "Welp, sorry guys, your game is ACTUALLY good, but suck it up and die because you work for EA"? THAT is the right thing to do?! Let them die?

At this point, I want DICE themselves to do THEIR fight as well internally. I'm sure they have way more power than perhaps they themselves think. Who else will make EA's precious Battlefront series otherwise? For now DICE is way too profitable to shut them down if they 'rebelled'. They are CONTRACTED to make Star Wars games for Disney and EA (well mostly EA, as long as EA has the agreement going from Disney). What about DICE fighting back and telling whoever is in charge to also suck it up if they do want their Star Wars game now? I mean shit, if I was them I'd just threaten to sabotage the whole thing at this point if the Execs don't change their mind and don't put a break on their obsession for sucking the Shareholders' schlongs all day long. There's other ways to make money like... * drum rolls * DAMN, what about simply making a good game?! What an interesting concept! But I myself cannot help DICE doing that fight. If my "help" for them is to NOT buy their game then I'm sure that EA will perceive them as non profitable and we all know what that means. I genuinely do NOT want to see DICE biting the dust.

Anyway, I don't know what happened internally but DICE's CEO for now apparently acts (or has been payed to act) like the scapegoat with that "We're sorry" message (heh, maybe it was genuine, but I feel like it's just Public Relations for now and got someone more important than himself on the phone telling him to do it) and the temporary removal of the Crystals purchase with real money. I've NEVER seen that happen before (from EA, or any other publishers that I can think of right now), so sure, something happened internally. The question I have in mind is WHO made that decision. Was it DICE that said "enough is enough"? Or was it EA that realized that too much damage had been done and they absolutely have to do something as drastic as simply removing the whole micro transaction system from the game? Or was it Disney now that they might "fear" the investigation that's going on now in Belgium and the Netherlands? I don't know. But I wish that DICE had something to do about it. I want them to defend themselves too. I don't know what's going on over there and yes I hope for the best.

But ultimately I, myself, only wanted to "thank" DICE. And just sending them a personal e-mail to them without paying for their game and pirating it wasn't an option that I was contemplating. I wanted BF2, I was pleased by the announcement of the game's features compared to BF1. My way to say thanks to double BF1's content with a campaign was to buy the damn thing. And my way to not support EA was to ignore the micro transactions. Simply not buying the game at all to me is also showing the finger to the entire DICE team behind BF2 while I know very well that many of them are genuinely disgusted to work for EA and know internally that shit would hit the fan with a progression system like that, but were "forced" (or "convinced") to do it anyway; but that's NOT DICE, that's EA. I'm not going to just sit there waiting for DICE to either leave EA (if they can) on their own, or waiting for them to be shut down in 2 or 3 years from now like Visceral Games and so many other EA-purchased studios before them.

But whatever, some people are hellbent to hate others on a molecular level and regardless what you're trying to point at they'll believe otherwise. It goes for both sides (you can believe that's exactly the case for me, for being gullible; and me thinking the same about you for thinking that every single person on this planet who DARED buying BF2 because they simply enjoy it as a video game are in fact as much monsters as EA themselves).

OK hold on a minute. No one writes this much unless they have been emotionally affected. Its not worth getting all bent out of shape about, despite my convictions or anyone else's. Many of us are trying to send a message to EA that this isn't acceptable. Many people are still buying the game, so it is what it is. You just made a tragic mistake that will impact our lives forever, so don't worry about it. jk jk We still love you like family.

 

[Zenoth]

There's simply no good solutions outside of simply not buying the game.

There's no system in place where a gamer can choose which 'party' he or she would prefer to give the money to. If I could, I'd pay DICE myself, giving the equivalent of the full price of the game to the whole team who made the head and handwork with a check for each one of them. But the current system asks me to give money to my retailer or the digital seller; after that then I don't know what happens to it. I'm the kind of guy who works, appreciates work, and especially work well done. When someone offers a service, does his/her job, they get paid. They need to eat, and pay their bills, have a roof on their head; that's how life works. The Battlefront II I see, hear and play happens to be a Star Wars game that visually accurately depicts its universe just as well and perhaps better than the 2015's attempt. It's work well done, a team of human beings with real life needs worked on it. I don't want THEM to have issues now or in the future; they are a very capable game development studio, but they're working for the bad guys; it doesn't mean that they ALL should be considered part of them problem, themselves.

The original game lacked too much content to excuse the price they asked for it. At the time, my Star Wars "fanboyism" didn't get the best of me; I passed and moved on. A few months ago they announced the features for BF2, that it'd have a campaign, how "double" of this and "double" of that it'd have over the original one's content. And about how every single post-launch DLCs / extra content releases would be free. That stuff I asked for, wished for in their 2015 BF. Almost everyone at the time also did. You guys wanted a campaign? Well, here's one! You guys wanted more maps? Well, here's pretty much double the count. Oh, you guys also wanted even MORE content? Well, here's the THREE eras. It kept going on. At that point, and before the Beta came out, before everyone "realized" what was going on; what was then the apparent 'trade-off' for having free DLCs, I had already made my mind. That I would "thank" DICE for listening to what 'we' wanted, even if they absolutely didn't * have * to do it especially considering that it was a series that from the start was conceived to be focused on multiplayer. I was, in fact, ready to buy BF2 without a campaign as long as the multiplayer content for it would be significantly increased over what 2015's BF had at release. But they went not only with a campaign, but an Arcade mode I can casually enjoy whenever I happen to have enough of online multiplayer.

As a consumer, I could only realize that "Wow... they actually did a good job this time around". I was simply satisfied.

I planned to buy it from the beginning before the whole microtransaction controversy / fiasco started. When I got to see the progression system first hand during the open Beta I simply realized that - yes, even though I "hated" the concept (still do), and its execution - it really did not influence my enjoyment of the actual gameplay itself. The gunplay, the mechanics, the controls, the physics, the match objectives. That everything was doable even if I was at an apparent 'disadvantage' versus those in the same match whom happened to have spent money or also happened to have simply played a lot more than me and just unlocked more and better stuff. And that I would - like most people - wait without haste, at my own pace to also progress by accumulating enough in-game credits to open the occasional loot box along with getting my daily login one, and the few others we can get from doing the campaign and finishing some other challenges in various modes. That, ultimately, I'd be happy with just playing it "like that", while ignoring the microtransactions.

The actual BF2 dev team, the guys who worked on it. The guys and gals who made the textures, animations, models, coding, A.I., scripts, campaign, motion capture, written the story, created the new canon characters, made the sound editing. All that stuff, and more; THOSE guys not only deserve to be paid for their work, but they need to. I want to support them. I ENJOY the gameplay of the game that they worked on. The progression system does NOT affect me as much as some people think it "should". It's incredible but yeah, there's tough-as-nails gamers around apparently. I can endure and I'm very casual with online games. Yeah, EA decided to include microtransactions and 'force' (persuade / incite) us to get those damn Cards and "progress" by purchasing Crystals with real money. That it would greatly accelerate the process. Mmmmk, what if I don't give a damn? Not only I simply don't care, I don't WANT to care about it. It's my personal way to 'fight' their decision. What if I just... oh, you know, enjoy the base "default" non-or-barely-progressed gameplay? I do have some cards anyway, it's not like all my Class, Troopers and Vehicles slots are always empty. I have my daily box and the ones I get with in-game credits. I got some Whites, Greens and a few Blues. It's enough for me as much as it was enough to get the equipment and various weapons mods in Mass Effect 3's multiplayer the 'free' way (never spent a single dime on that thing, and proud of it). The TIME it "would take" to get the best Cards, etc. Those estimations I saw around the web, yeah, it's ludicrous. But it is the case for those who WANT to achieve that, to get there. It's horrible for those whom are concerned about it, for those it affects. I do NOT actually want the best cards or even the Blue or the Green cards. I bet EA didn't plan for THAT crowd huh? I'll simply get the ones I get by chance whenever I play normally and open the boxes I get that way, and that's it.

To reiterate, the ONLY thing I can do as an honest buyer and a guy who believes in being freakin' paid for work, and work well done on top of that is to buy the game. I did not want to wait for a sale because I believe that DICE, not EA deserve the full price because what they have done on a technical level of game production is very good for my personal tastes and expectations of the visions of a modern take on the Star Wars eras put in a first-person-shooter genre. As the video game that it is, I simply enjoy it. Excuse me for buying a game I liked during the Beta and not pirating it or going on the "cheap" side and waiting for it to be $10 in two months from now. I know my money didn't go to DICE, it went to EA. But not buying it period, or buying it during sales would have felt wrong to me. There is no system in place currently for gamers to decide which "side" they'd want to support separately. So I simply did what I thought and felt was right to do. The money goes to EA, it's the 'necessary evil' part, I suppose. But my act of buying the game and ignoring the microtransactions was my own way to 'vote' for DICE.

If you guys, anyone here, have a solution to propose for people like me who only want to support the dev team of any particular game while not supporting publishers whenever shit like that hits the fan then let me know. For now, all I can do is buying it to support DICE even if it's done indirectly and sends a wrong message to EA. My intention is one of honesty towards DICE and appreciation of their job well done (that part is of course subjective; if you actually do dislike BF2's * everything * on a technical level then heh, for YOU of course DICE didn't do a good job anyway; but that's an opinion). They made a good Star Wars game, I liked it; I paid for it. Now I get to play it the way I want to while showing the finger to the microtransactions even if EA did get my money and laugh about it on their way to the bank. I didn't get "bent over" by EA, I didn't buy Crystals with real money. I do understand that the purchase says (to EA) "I bought your game, keep doing that shit please.". That is the message that THEY understand out of it. But DO imagine one moment, in the best of worlds just for the sake of dreaming in colors here, if NO ONE - after buying the base game - would have bought a single Crystal with real money. Literally, no ONE person on Earth would have done it. Wouldn't that ALSO have sent them a message? We don't want that in our games? I'd of course LIKE it if they'd improve the progression system but - for me - it's not essential to the core game as surprising as it may seem. So ultimately MY message was "Sure, I'll buy the game because DICE worked well on it but don't count on me to support your progression system and overall shitty microtransaction methodology".

The one thing I hope for right now is for this mess to be fixed (permanently) for everyone.

The problem I see for DICE as a dev team, however, is that from now on REGARDLESS of what they'd do to not only really fix the progression system but to please as many gamers as possible by adding good content later on as well is that people won't actually recognize or admit their real attempt at "redeeming" themselves, and people will keep either pirating, trash talking, 'boycotting' or down voting it all the way until BF3 comes out and perhaps even then the haters will keep at it; even if at that point BF2 would have been really fixed for months prior. In other words, even if in one or two months from now they do come up with a good 'compromise' or replacement, the . damage is already done; beyond repair. And BF2, from now on, will always be remembered for the wrong reasons. And if people finally decide to "give it a chance" they'll wait for it to be $5 or something ridiculous like that. Already, right now, purchasing Crystals isn't possible anymore. They already made "a move", it's a step in the right direction. The community that cared about the situation 'rallied' and a move WAS made. But the hatred toward DICE and EA still continues anyway with the same intensity. Some people simply hate, at this point, for the sake of hating and being on the side of the 'movement'. A clear message was heard, apparently. And yeah, perhaps the pressure of the investigations in Europe about gambling 'persuaded' someone high in the EA / Disney ranks to move quickly. Maybe there's really NO goodwill behind the removal of the microtransactions and is only an attempt at hiding a true evil. But the fact is, that right now, the kind of move that people wanted to see being done HAS been done and cannot currently be denied. I understand the suspicion right now and the 'let's wait and see' for what they'll come up with next. But mark my words, the real haters WILL continue to hate anyway regardless of what they do even if it happens to be undeniably better.

Anyway I've made my case. I'll see in 10 years from now if I was right or not. If I was wrong then entire gaming industry should have been long doomed at that point so it should be clear enough.

 

[Ancalagon44]

The gaming industry had a crash in the 80's actually. Entire thing collapsed. So it could happen again, and maybe it should.

I really don't get why you are so desperate to give DICE money. Sure, they did good work. So what? Lots of people do good work, and unfortunately not all of them get paid for it. In this case, you cannot separate EA from DICE. You are trying to encourage the latter, but you are really encouraging the former.

And you know what, sometimes publisher owned studios need to fail in order for Good Stuff to happen. A lot of prominent, good indie developers have risen from the ashes of former first party studios. Take a look at Obsidian, for instance. They were formed from mostly ex Bioware and Black Isle employees as far as I know. Without Obsidian, we would not have got some really good games.

Sure, it would be painful for employees to go through such a collapse. I don't doubt that. But sometimes it needs to happen, because it teaches the devs to not be acquired again. To remain independent. Development studios that were formed after the failure of a first party studio are rarely if ever acquired again. Clearly, once the lesson is learned, it stays for life.

I'm not saying that DICE needs to be "taught a lesson". They are, in some ways, the victims here. But I also don't believe that bad businesses should be propped up out of loyalty or anything.

If EA wants to kill DICE, let it happen. The end result would be better without EA.

 

[Majes]

There's a reason that Candy Crush sold for more than the entire Star Wars franchise...

Apparently it's easier to make money with an addictive platform than it is to make money off of good content.

 

[BlitzPuppet]

In this case, you cannot separate EA from DICE. You are trying to encourage the latter, but you are really encouraging the former.

Bingo. EA is DICE, DICE is EA. Dice has long been inseparable from EA, in fact they've been a pretty terrible company since the Battlefield 2 days with their treatment of Trauma Studios.

Don't support bad games. Sucks for the devs but that's the cost of business in this industry.

 

[Rebel_L]

By supporting this game at this critical time, you contribute to the doom of the entire gaming industry. Just telling it like it is.

The mirco-transaction model and gambling loot box model is already a well established model in games. The time to boycott was a long time ago, if you were to actually have a successful boycott for PC games doing this all it would lead to less and less games being developed for the PC. When I see how much more games offer now compared to 20 years ago and the general change in prices overtime of other forms of entertainment I am amazed at how cheap computer gaming is these days.

 

[JTsyo]

After being disappointed in the first one, I'll hold out and buy it $10 for the campaign in two years or so.

 

[SLU Aequitas]

After being disappointed in the first one, I'll hold out and buy it $10 for the campaign in two years or so.

Prepare to be disappointed by the campaign.

 

[Joeydubbs]

Got about 10 hours in and am enjoying BF2 very much. I really don't understand the hate this game is getting.

This game looks and plays great even on my somewhat older rig and I can't remember a multiplayer launch title that was so stable. I do miss walker assault but the galactic battlegrounds work (some of the maps are downright awesome). Progression system could use a tutorial but is fine I guess. I already unlocked darth vader with minimal effort and admittedly limited skill so tales of enormous grinds/progress walls are silly. Sure getting all unlocks will be a chore but isn't it supposed to be?

If you liked BF1 you will like this. That is, if you like a somewhat arcade like shooter, you will enjoy BF2. Biggest con for me are the pure star fighter matches, something just doesn't feel right and there is no depth at all (definitely not the next X-Wing game)...but again, fun arcade like shooter. Price is high but remember this is star wars pricing...DLC is supposed to be free hopefully the community won't get fractured like it did in BF1.

 

[Ancalagon44]

The mirco-transaction model and gambling loot box model is already a well established model in games. The time to boycott was a long time ago, if you were to actually have a successful boycott for PC games doing this all it would lead to less and less games being developed for the PC. When I see how much more games offer now compared to 20 years ago and the general change in prices overtime of other forms of entertainment I am amazed at how cheap computer gaming is these days.

It is never too late.

Admittedly, the problem would be convincing the masses of the problem. Not many people who buy video games also read forums. So they will just hand over money like always.

Less games for PC? Well, no, for one thing this game is multi platform in any case. It makes no difference whether people boycott it on PC or Xbox, as long as they boycott it.

Even if we were to do a PC specific boycott, I don't think EA will give up and not make PC games anymore. There is still money to be made. They would only abandon the PC completely if they were unable to make a profit from it, which is not the case. Games are still profitable without microtransactions. If they weren't, then games like Civilisation would not exist.

So I don't care if EA takes its toys and goes to play elsewhere, doesn't affect me. Still lots of games to play.

 

[Stg-Flame]

I really don't understand the hate this game is getting.

Then you are either too young to understand anything past arm's reach or you haven't read a single thing in this thread.

Nobody is against the game itself. It's probably really fun. It's probably even better if you're a huge Star Wars fan (which many of us are). We are against EA's business model of treating players like mindless open wallets.