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Star charts show China beat Columbus to the Americas
- Thread starter KDOG
- Start date
NikPreviousAcct
No Lifer
For the lazy...
<< A Chinese explorer reached America 72 years before Columbus and circled the globe a century before Magellan accomplished the feat, according to a review of star positions in the 15th Century along with secret maps and other evidence.
If proved true, the speculative new theory would force a rewriting of textbooks around the world.
British amateur historian Gavin Menzies used Starry Night software, run on his home computer, to generate the locations of Southern Hemisphere stars in the 1420s and help support his suspicions about an epic Chinese voyage by an admiral named Zheng He.
Stars change location over long periods of time, relative to terrestrial vantage points, because of changes in Earth's axis of rotation. Starry Night software, published by SPACE.com, can be set forward or back in time to display the positions of stars and other celestial objects.
Menzies presented his new theory March 15 in a lecture to the Royal Geographical Society in London. It was received courteously but cautiously by historians, who have long thought the Zheng He venture ended near the southern tip of Africa.
Circumnavigating the globe
Sent by the Chinese emperor, Zheng He led more than 100 ships, armed with weapons and loaded with treasure, to the Middle East and Asia.
That much is widely agreed upon.
Menzies thinks the admiral continued on to South America and also explored the Caribbean and the Sea of Cortez, tucked inside Baja California. The journey ran from early 1421 to late 1423.
A navigation expert and retired Royal Navy submarine commander, Menzies says maps used by Columbus in 1492, Ferdinand Megellan in 1519, and other Europeans of the era were based on earlier Chinese charts. Menzies used these documents to recreate the Zheng He voyage, a path along which he then found other clues.
He also presented evidence to the Geographical Society of shipwrecks near Australia and in the Caribbean, as well as porcelain and stone Chinese artifacts found in various locations, all of which he said supports his view. A full account of his findings, however, is being withheld. Menzies, 64, and his publicist hope to get a contract for a book, which would divulge the entire body of evidence.
Guiding star
Over centuries, the perceived locations of stars move because of changes in Earth's tilt on its axis. The phenomenon is called precession, and it works like this:
Earth is fatter at the equator than from pole to pole. The gravity of the Sun and Moon work on this so-called equatorial bulge and turn the planet into something like a spinning top. Earth's axis of rotation, if extended into space, would trace out a circle among the stars. It takes about 26,000 years for this imaginary extension of the pole to complete the circle, and along the way the pole points at different stars.
The North Star, Polaris, is currently within 1 degree of the north celestial pole. But about 5,000 years ago it pointed at the star Thuban. In about 12,000 years, Vega will replace Polaris as the North Star.
The same phenomenon controls which stars appear directly above the South Pole. Menzies figures the Chinese explorer used the bright Southern Hemisphere star Canopus, as well as the Southern Cross, a prominent constellation, as navigational aids.
According to an article in The New York Times , Menzies used Starry Night to recreate the positions of the stars during Zheng He's voyage. Then while comparing the software's results to the maps, he drew a line from one of the stars in the Southern Cross, vertically to Deception Island, off the coast of South America.
"The maps suddenly line up with current coastlines to an uncanny degree," he said.
Menzies thinks the Portuguese had in 1428 a secret map that showed Australia, South America, and the Cape of Good Hope at the southern tip of Africa. The Portuguese would not sail around the cape until late in the century, however.
"What nobody has explained is why the European explorers had maps," Menzies told London's Daily Telegraph . "Who drew the maps? There are millions of square miles of ocean. It required huge fleets to chart them. If you say it wasn't the Chinese, with the biggest fleets and ships in the world, then who was it?"
Proof waits
Other historians have documented Zheng He's travels through Malaysia, India, the Middle East and Africa. Along the way, the admiral captured the Sri Lankan king and waged military attacks along the African Coast. His multi-masted ships have been called marvels of technology for the time.
But there's been no evidence to suggest the Chinese voyages extended beyond the southern tip of Africa.
Menzies spent 14 years putting his theory together. He holds that Italian explorer Nicolo da Conti, thought by others to have sailed with Zheng He, may have provided the charts to the Portuguese.
Gillian Hutchinson, curator of the history of cartography at the National Maritime Museum in London, is not sure there is a link to be made.
"It is possible that Chinese geographical knowledge had reached Europe before the Age of Discovery," Hutchinson said in the Daily Telegraph . "But Mr. Menzies is absolutely certain of it, and that makes it difficult to separate evidence from wishful thinking."
Zheng He returned to China and died in 1433, a decade after his emperor had lost the throne to Confucian mandarins, who refocused China on itself. In 1436, still more than five decades before Columbus set sail, an imperial ban was issued on the construction of oceangoing vessels, ending the country's era of discovery.
Other historians said they could not review the theory until all of the evidence is presented. >>
<< A Chinese explorer reached America 72 years before Columbus and circled the globe a century before Magellan accomplished the feat, according to a review of star positions in the 15th Century along with secret maps and other evidence.
If proved true, the speculative new theory would force a rewriting of textbooks around the world.
British amateur historian Gavin Menzies used Starry Night software, run on his home computer, to generate the locations of Southern Hemisphere stars in the 1420s and help support his suspicions about an epic Chinese voyage by an admiral named Zheng He.
Stars change location over long periods of time, relative to terrestrial vantage points, because of changes in Earth's axis of rotation. Starry Night software, published by SPACE.com, can be set forward or back in time to display the positions of stars and other celestial objects.
Menzies presented his new theory March 15 in a lecture to the Royal Geographical Society in London. It was received courteously but cautiously by historians, who have long thought the Zheng He venture ended near the southern tip of Africa.
Circumnavigating the globe
Sent by the Chinese emperor, Zheng He led more than 100 ships, armed with weapons and loaded with treasure, to the Middle East and Asia.
That much is widely agreed upon.
Menzies thinks the admiral continued on to South America and also explored the Caribbean and the Sea of Cortez, tucked inside Baja California. The journey ran from early 1421 to late 1423.
A navigation expert and retired Royal Navy submarine commander, Menzies says maps used by Columbus in 1492, Ferdinand Megellan in 1519, and other Europeans of the era were based on earlier Chinese charts. Menzies used these documents to recreate the Zheng He voyage, a path along which he then found other clues.
He also presented evidence to the Geographical Society of shipwrecks near Australia and in the Caribbean, as well as porcelain and stone Chinese artifacts found in various locations, all of which he said supports his view. A full account of his findings, however, is being withheld. Menzies, 64, and his publicist hope to get a contract for a book, which would divulge the entire body of evidence.
Guiding star
Over centuries, the perceived locations of stars move because of changes in Earth's tilt on its axis. The phenomenon is called precession, and it works like this:
Earth is fatter at the equator than from pole to pole. The gravity of the Sun and Moon work on this so-called equatorial bulge and turn the planet into something like a spinning top. Earth's axis of rotation, if extended into space, would trace out a circle among the stars. It takes about 26,000 years for this imaginary extension of the pole to complete the circle, and along the way the pole points at different stars.
The North Star, Polaris, is currently within 1 degree of the north celestial pole. But about 5,000 years ago it pointed at the star Thuban. In about 12,000 years, Vega will replace Polaris as the North Star.
The same phenomenon controls which stars appear directly above the South Pole. Menzies figures the Chinese explorer used the bright Southern Hemisphere star Canopus, as well as the Southern Cross, a prominent constellation, as navigational aids.
According to an article in The New York Times , Menzies used Starry Night to recreate the positions of the stars during Zheng He's voyage. Then while comparing the software's results to the maps, he drew a line from one of the stars in the Southern Cross, vertically to Deception Island, off the coast of South America.
"The maps suddenly line up with current coastlines to an uncanny degree," he said.
Menzies thinks the Portuguese had in 1428 a secret map that showed Australia, South America, and the Cape of Good Hope at the southern tip of Africa. The Portuguese would not sail around the cape until late in the century, however.
"What nobody has explained is why the European explorers had maps," Menzies told London's Daily Telegraph . "Who drew the maps? There are millions of square miles of ocean. It required huge fleets to chart them. If you say it wasn't the Chinese, with the biggest fleets and ships in the world, then who was it?"
Proof waits
Other historians have documented Zheng He's travels through Malaysia, India, the Middle East and Africa. Along the way, the admiral captured the Sri Lankan king and waged military attacks along the African Coast. His multi-masted ships have been called marvels of technology for the time.
But there's been no evidence to suggest the Chinese voyages extended beyond the southern tip of Africa.
Menzies spent 14 years putting his theory together. He holds that Italian explorer Nicolo da Conti, thought by others to have sailed with Zheng He, may have provided the charts to the Portuguese.
Gillian Hutchinson, curator of the history of cartography at the National Maritime Museum in London, is not sure there is a link to be made.
"It is possible that Chinese geographical knowledge had reached Europe before the Age of Discovery," Hutchinson said in the Daily Telegraph . "But Mr. Menzies is absolutely certain of it, and that makes it difficult to separate evidence from wishful thinking."
Zheng He returned to China and died in 1433, a decade after his emperor had lost the throne to Confucian mandarins, who refocused China on itself. In 1436, still more than five decades before Columbus set sail, an imperial ban was issued on the construction of oceangoing vessels, ending the country's era of discovery.
Other historians said they could not review the theory until all of the evidence is presented. >>
the who was there first debate is utter BS in my opinion. If you think about it the Native Americans "discovered" America thousands of years before anyone else. There's no reason to re-write the history books. All they gotta add is a little blurp at the beginning
"The chinese landed in America then turned around and never came back due to religious zealots. The End"
piku is right...it doesn't matter who got there first.
"The chinese landed in America then turned around and never came back due to religious zealots. The End"
piku is right...it doesn't matter who got there first.
<< Star chart shows that this is most likely a repost.
Icelanders discovered America around 1000, but it was full of indians so they left after I think few years of living in Newfoundland. >>
I rememeber that from my history as well Czar. I read it in a book about misconceptions of Peacful Indian Tribes in the North East and how they fought off invading Icelanders.
Of course if you ask Native Americans who discovered America you get a different reaction 😉
Also on the Discovery Channel, 2 skulls have been found that pre-date even Native Americans. One of possible Asian origin found in Alaska, Another in the Contentinal US that was not Native American in origin but appeared more Anglo in nature. It was really interesting.
<<
<< Icelanders discovered America around 1000, but it was full of indians so they left after I think few years of living in Newfoundland. >>
I thought they left after they met Texmaster. That's what I recall from my history class, at least. >>
Oh Man. Yet another Graduate from the Red Dawn school of Humor.
<<
<<
<< Icelanders discovered America around 1000, but it was full of indians so they left after I think few years of living in Newfoundland. >>
I thought they left after they met Texmaster. That's what I recall from my history class, at least. >>
Oh Man. Yet another Graduate from the Red Dawn school of Humor. >>
😀
LongCoolMother
Diamond Member
<< the who was there first debate is utter BS in my opinion. If you think about it the Native Americans "discovered" America thousands of years before anyone else. There's no reason to re-write the history books. All they gotta add is a little blurp at the beginning
"The chinese landed in America then turned around and never came back due to religious zealots. The End"
piku is right...it doesn't matter who got there first. >>
HappyPuppy
Lifer
I never have believed that the so called "Native Americans" were the first humans to live in the Americas. It just never made any sense.
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
I never have believed that the so called "Native Americans" were the first humans to live in the Americas. It just never made any sense.
Who cares if it makes sense to anyone's peewee intellect?! A multitude of unique cultures occupied North America for millenia B4 the land was invaded by pestilence from the East and well apparently the West. At least the Chinese didn't out stay their welcome . . .
Who cares if it makes sense to anyone's peewee intellect?! A multitude of unique cultures occupied North America for millenia B4 the land was invaded by pestilence from the East and well apparently the West. At least the Chinese didn't out stay their welcome . . .
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