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Staff Sgt. Camilo Mejia- Coward or Patriot?

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Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
From Websters:

Main Entry: pa·tri·ot
Pronunciation: 'pA-trE-&t, -"ät, chiefly British 'pa-trE-&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French patriote compatriot, from Late Latin patriota, from Greek patriOtEs, from patria lineage, from patr-, patEr father
: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests

so if you love your country..but dont support the government...you are NOT a patriot...

therefore...Protestors are NOT patriots

If you must support the government to be a patriot, I guess I'm not a patriot.

Are you active or are you in an organization that is active is the removal and overthrowing of the Constitution?


no.

Do you support the Constitution?....that is our goverment.

If you want to change representation make sure to vote.

BULLSHIT IT IS!!! The current government has NOTHING to do with the constitution. It's a farsical self-serving plutocracy which is abhorrent to lovers of the constitution. You sully it by associating it with the current administration and it's actions.
 
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
From Websters:

Main Entry: pa·tri·ot
Pronunciation: 'pA-trE-&t, -"ät, chiefly British 'pa-trE-&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French patriote compatriot, from Late Latin patriota, from Greek patriOtEs, from patria lineage, from patr-, patEr father
: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests

so if you love your country..but dont support the government...you are NOT a patriot...

therefore...Protestors are NOT patriots

If you must support the government to be a patriot, I guess I'm not a patriot.

Are you active or are you in an organization that is active is the removal and overthrowing of the Constitution?


no.

Do you support the Constitution?....that is our goverment.

If you want to change representation make sure to vote.

Errr the constitution is the blueprint that our elected government follows for organization and fundamental functions. If every politician were corrupt or performing in ways that citizens felt were contrary to their interpretation of the constitution, then overthrowing those politicians would not neccessarily be "against the constitution."

Zephyr

We have a defined process for changing our elected officials...none of which involve an overthrow....lets leave that up to the communists and dictators

You are incorrect. The idea is to not overthrow until all other options have been exhausted however. We can call for impeachments, file various suits, campaign, etc. If all of that fails, and if the government is refusing to adhere to the constitution and properly represent it's people...then we are called by all documents of our founders to take arms against the corrupted administration and cast it down, replacing it with a once again just and honorable rule.
 
I think by now you all know how I feel about the current administration and commander-in-clown....errrr chief. Even so, I say fry the bastard. When you sign up you agree to do as ordered or accept the consequences if you don't. I disobeyed orders when I was in, openly, on moral grounds, and stood ready for any punishments every time. Had I been in during the start of the war, I would have refused to take any part in it, and I would have faced court martial for it, and that would have been fine with me. I would have argued based on 'unlawful order', I would have stood to my moral ground, I would have been found guilty, sentenced to prison and dishonorably discharged. And I would have stood proud and tall the whole time.

To turn and run, or hide, or lie, or anything else...that's the mark of a small pitiable man and I have no remorse for such as he.
 
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
From Websters:

Main Entry: pa·tri·ot
Pronunciation: 'pA-trE-&t, -"ät, chiefly British 'pa-trE-&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French patriote compatriot, from Late Latin patriota, from Greek patriOtEs, from patria lineage, from patr-, patEr father
: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests

so if you love your country..but dont support the government...you are NOT a patriot...

therefore...Protestors are NOT patriots

If you must support the government to be a patriot, I guess I'm not a patriot.

Are you active or are you in an organization that is active is the removal and overthrowing of the Constitution?


no.

Do you support the Constitution?....that is our goverment.

If you want to change representation make sure to vote.

Errr the constitution is the blueprint that our elected government follows for organization and fundamental functions. If every politician were corrupt or performing in ways that citizens felt were contrary to their interpretation of the constitution, then overthrowing those politicians would not neccessarily be "against the constitution."

Zephyr

We have a defined process for changing our elected officials...none of which involve an overthrow....lets leave that up to the communists and dictators

You are incorrect. The idea is to not overthrow until all other options have been exhausted however. We can call for impeachments, file various suits, campaign, etc. If all of that fails, and if the government is refusing to adhere to the constitution and properly represent it's people...then we are called by all documents of our founders to take arms against the corrupted administration and cast it down, replacing it with a once again just and honorable rule.


Oh charade you are....you equate "the government" = "the administration" which is completely inaccurate. Dont forget the Legislative and Judicial branches....they would have to be "overthrown" as well...

Though if we took up arms against the adminstration, what would we use? Guns? how would you ward off and airstrike?
 
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
From Websters:

Main Entry: pa·tri·ot
Pronunciation: 'pA-trE-&t, -"ät, chiefly British 'pa-trE-&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French patriote compatriot, from Late Latin patriota, from Greek patriOtEs, from patria lineage, from patr-, patEr father
: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests

so if you love your country..but dont support the government...you are NOT a patriot...

therefore...Protestors are NOT patriots

If you must support the government to be a patriot, I guess I'm not a patriot.

Are you active or are you in an organization that is active is the removal and overthrowing of the Constitution?


no.

Do you support the Constitution?....that is our goverment.

If you want to change representation make sure to vote.

Errr the constitution is the blueprint that our elected government follows for organization and fundamental functions. If every politician were corrupt or performing in ways that citizens felt were contrary to their interpretation of the constitution, then overthrowing those politicians would not neccessarily be "against the constitution."

Zephyr

We have a defined process for changing our elected officials...none of which involve an overthrow....lets leave that up to the communists and dictators

You are incorrect. The idea is to not overthrow until all other options have been exhausted however. We can call for impeachments, file various suits, campaign, etc. If all of that fails, and if the government is refusing to adhere to the constitution and properly represent it's people...then we are called by all documents of our founders to take arms against the corrupted administration and cast it down, replacing it with a once again just and honorable rule.


Oh charade you are....you equate "the government" = "the administration" which is completely inaccurate. Dont forget the Legislative and Judicial branches....they would have to be "overthrown" as well...

Though if we took up arms against the adminstration, what would we use? Guns? how would you ward off and airstrike?

I recall some Iraqi inssurectionists who were able to ward off airstrikes, if they were even targets for airstrikes. Boots on the ground is the only way to fight a guerrila war.

Zephyr
 
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I think by now you all know how I feel about the current administration and commander-in-clown....errrr chief. Even so, I say fry the bastard. When you sign up you agree to do as ordered or accept the consequences if you don't. I disobeyed orders when I was in, openly, on moral grounds, and stood ready for any punishments every time. Had I been in during the start of the war, I would have refused to take any part in it, and I would have faced court martial for it, and that would have been fine with me. I would have argued based on 'unlawful order', I would have stood to my moral ground, I would have been found guilty, sentenced to prison and dishonorably discharged. And I would have stood proud and tall the whole time.

To turn and run, or hide, or lie, or anything else...that's the mark of a small pitiable man and I have no remorse for such as he.

So you disobyed orders on a regular basis? hmm...glad you aren't in the military anymore.

How proud would you have been filling out your job application to McDonalds knowing when you came to the question about military service you would have to check yes and that you would have to check no to the question were you honorably discharged....you could lie but that would instant grounds for dismissal if they found out.
 
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
From Websters:

Main Entry: pa·tri·ot
Pronunciation: 'pA-trE-&t, -"ät, chiefly British 'pa-trE-&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French patriote compatriot, from Late Latin patriota, from Greek patriOtEs, from patria lineage, from patr-, patEr father
: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests

so if you love your country..but dont support the government...you are NOT a patriot...

therefore...Protestors are NOT patriots

If you must support the government to be a patriot, I guess I'm not a patriot.

Are you active or are you in an organization that is active is the removal and overthrowing of the Constitution?


no.

Do you support the Constitution?....that is our goverment.

If you want to change representation make sure to vote.

Errr the constitution is the blueprint that our elected government follows for organization and fundamental functions. If every politician were corrupt or performing in ways that citizens felt were contrary to their interpretation of the constitution, then overthrowing those politicians would not neccessarily be "against the constitution."

Zephyr

We have a defined process for changing our elected officials...none of which involve an overthrow....lets leave that up to the communists and dictators

You are incorrect. The idea is to not overthrow until all other options have been exhausted however. We can call for impeachments, file various suits, campaign, etc. If all of that fails, and if the government is refusing to adhere to the constitution and properly represent it's people...then we are called by all documents of our founders to take arms against the corrupted administration and cast it down, replacing it with a once again just and honorable rule.


Oh charade you are....you equate "the government" = "the administration" which is completely inaccurate. Dont forget the Legislative and Judicial branches....they would have to be "overthrown" as well...

Though if we took up arms against the adminstration, what would we use? Guns? how would you ward off and airstrike?

I recall some Iraqi inssurectionists who were able to ward off airstrikes, if they were even targets for airstrikes. Boots on the ground is the only way to fight a guerrila war.

Zephyr

Where do you keep your personal stash of anti-aircraft missles? and would your left or right foot be left after an apache helicopter shot you and your car up with a hellfire missle?
 
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
From Websters:

Main Entry: pa·tri·ot
Pronunciation: 'pA-trE-&t, -"ät, chiefly British 'pa-trE-&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French patriote compatriot, from Late Latin patriota, from Greek patriOtEs, from patria lineage, from patr-, patEr father
: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests

so if you love your country..but dont support the government...you are NOT a patriot...

therefore...Protestors are NOT patriots

If you must support the government to be a patriot, I guess I'm not a patriot.

Are you active or are you in an organization that is active is the removal and overthrowing of the Constitution?


no.

Do you support the Constitution?....that is our goverment.

If you want to change representation make sure to vote.

Errr the constitution is the blueprint that our elected government follows for organization and fundamental functions. If every politician were corrupt or performing in ways that citizens felt were contrary to their interpretation of the constitution, then overthrowing those politicians would not neccessarily be "against the constitution."

Zephyr

We have a defined process for changing our elected officials...none of which involve an overthrow....lets leave that up to the communists and dictators

You are incorrect. The idea is to not overthrow until all other options have been exhausted however. We can call for impeachments, file various suits, campaign, etc. If all of that fails, and if the government is refusing to adhere to the constitution and properly represent it's people...then we are called by all documents of our founders to take arms against the corrupted administration and cast it down, replacing it with a once again just and honorable rule.


Oh charade you are....you equate "the government" = "the administration" which is completely inaccurate. Dont forget the Legislative and Judicial branches....they would have to be "overthrown" as well...

Though if we took up arms against the adminstration, what would we use? Guns? how would you ward off and airstrike?

I recall some Iraqi inssurectionists who were able to ward off airstrikes, if they were even targets for airstrikes. Boots on the ground is the only way to fight a guerrila war.

Zephyr

Where do you keep your personal stash of anti-aircraft missles? and would your left or right foot be left after an apache helicopter shot you and your car up with a hellfire missle?

Tell that to the Iraqi insurrectionists, where the majority of the population doesn't actively support them, and the occupiers have no reason to feel sympathy, yet they continue to conduct attacks and elude consequences. In a nation with larger segments of the population in support of a resistance, and government "enforcing" soldiers who may have sympathies to the rebels, the situation would be more favorable for the insurrectionists.

Zephyr
 
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
From Websters:

Main Entry: pa·tri·ot
Pronunciation: 'pA-trE-&t, -"ät, chiefly British 'pa-trE-&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French patriote compatriot, from Late Latin patriota, from Greek patriOtEs, from patria lineage, from patr-, patEr father
: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests

so if you love your country..but dont support the government...you are NOT a patriot...

therefore...Protestors are NOT patriots

If you must support the government to be a patriot, I guess I'm not a patriot.

Are you active or are you in an organization that is active is the removal and overthrowing of the Constitution?


no.

Do you support the Constitution?....that is our goverment.

If you want to change representation make sure to vote.

Errr the constitution is the blueprint that our elected government follows for organization and fundamental functions. If every politician were corrupt or performing in ways that citizens felt were contrary to their interpretation of the constitution, then overthrowing those politicians would not neccessarily be "against the constitution."

Zephyr

We have a defined process for changing our elected officials...none of which involve an overthrow....lets leave that up to the communists and dictators

You are incorrect. The idea is to not overthrow until all other options have been exhausted however. We can call for impeachments, file various suits, campaign, etc. If all of that fails, and if the government is refusing to adhere to the constitution and properly represent it's people...then we are called by all documents of our founders to take arms against the corrupted administration and cast it down, replacing it with a once again just and honorable rule.


Oh charade you are....you equate "the government" = "the administration" which is completely inaccurate. Dont forget the Legislative and Judicial branches....they would have to be "overthrown" as well...

Though if we took up arms against the adminstration, what would we use? Guns? how would you ward off and airstrike?

I recall some Iraqi inssurectionists who were able to ward off airstrikes, if they were even targets for airstrikes. Boots on the ground is the only way to fight a guerrila war.

Zephyr

Where do you keep your personal stash of anti-aircraft missles? and would your left or right foot be left after an apache helicopter shot you and your car up with a hellfire missle?

Tell that to the Iraqi insurrectionists, where the majority of the population doesn't actively support them, and the occupiers have no reason to feel sympathy, yet they continue to conduct attacks and elude consequences. In a nation with larger segments of the population in support of a resistance, and government "enforcing" soldiers who may have sympathies to the rebels, the situation would be more favorable for the insurrectionists.

Zephyr

But what I am referring to is your attack against the US government when it comes time for a regime change...what weapons would you and the rest of the "american" insurgents use that would hope to bring about their defeat.

I guarantee if a group started that in the US they would be harshly dealt with....with missles, bombs, airstrikes, tanks and the like...so I ask what as an American insurgent would you use to defeat the US military and remove the current government?
 
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
From Websters:

Main Entry: pa·tri·ot
Pronunciation: 'pA-trE-&t, -"ät, chiefly British 'pa-trE-&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French patriote compatriot, from Late Latin patriota, from Greek patriOtEs, from patria lineage, from patr-, patEr father
: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests

so if you love your country..but dont support the government...you are NOT a patriot...

therefore...Protestors are NOT patriots

If you must support the government to be a patriot, I guess I'm not a patriot.

Are you active or are you in an organization that is active is the removal and overthrowing of the Constitution?


no.

Do you support the Constitution?....that is our goverment.

If you want to change representation make sure to vote.

Errr the constitution is the blueprint that our elected government follows for organization and fundamental functions. If every politician were corrupt or performing in ways that citizens felt were contrary to their interpretation of the constitution, then overthrowing those politicians would not neccessarily be "against the constitution."

Zephyr

We have a defined process for changing our elected officials...none of which involve an overthrow....lets leave that up to the communists and dictators

You are incorrect. The idea is to not overthrow until all other options have been exhausted however. We can call for impeachments, file various suits, campaign, etc. If all of that fails, and if the government is refusing to adhere to the constitution and properly represent it's people...then we are called by all documents of our founders to take arms against the corrupted administration and cast it down, replacing it with a once again just and honorable rule.


Oh charade you are....you equate "the government" = "the administration" which is completely inaccurate. Dont forget the Legislative and Judicial branches....they would have to be "overthrown" as well...

Though if we took up arms against the adminstration, what would we use? Guns? how would you ward off and airstrike?

It is exceptionally unlikely any government would utilize mass destruction weaponry on their own soil. Even so much as tanks or direct fire rocketry would turn more people against them with every strike, until there were none left to rule over. No, with insurrection it would be guerilla tactics, surgical strikes, small unit counters. Anything more destroys what both sides are trying to protect, wouldn't happen. When it became obvious to the administration that they could not win (which they couldn't) they would more than likely either sue for peace, or remove themselves to a remaining friendly country and set up 'administration in exile' or merely a haven for those who stood with them. Their thoughts, probably, being that without their 'genetically suerior material' the nation couldn't survive and they'd eventually return to claim it, or merely that they'd use their financial and any remaining politcial clout to destroy us from afar.
 
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I think by now you all know how I feel about the current administration and commander-in-clown....errrr chief. Even so, I say fry the bastard. When you sign up you agree to do as ordered or accept the consequences if you don't. I disobeyed orders when I was in, openly, on moral grounds, and stood ready for any punishments every time. Had I been in during the start of the war, I would have refused to take any part in it, and I would have faced court martial for it, and that would have been fine with me. I would have argued based on 'unlawful order', I would have stood to my moral ground, I would have been found guilty, sentenced to prison and dishonorably discharged. And I would have stood proud and tall the whole time.

To turn and run, or hide, or lie, or anything else...that's the mark of a small pitiable man and I have no remorse for such as he.

So you disobyed orders on a regular basis? hmm...glad you aren't in the military anymore.

How proud would you have been filling out your job application to McDonalds knowing when you came to the question about military service you would have to check yes and that you would have to check no to the question were you honorably discharged....you could lie but that would instant grounds for dismissal if they found out.


Just orders I disagreed with. Things that were inherently wrong: violation of laws, harming the environment against treaty or regulation, discrimination of people based on anyting (like sexual orientation). I never said 'screw you lieutenant I don't feel like doing it', I said more like 'I'm sorry sir, but to perform that action would directly violate my morals. Moreover it would be an unlawful order as it violates (insert violation here) and as such I am not required to carry it out'. This was especially true for anything that directly opposed the constitution. At first they were mad, even told me I'd be captains masted (like a mini court martial). But they always dropped it. After a while they just didn't give me any objectionable orders. I think by the end they respected how serious I was about right and wrong. And it didn't hurt my time a bit...I advanced from E1 to E4 and had enough points and passed the advancement test to E5 (although I was honorably discharged before being frocked), and I did it in 19 months (and got some decorations and special duties as well). You don't do that unless you're damn good (or fairly lucky).

As for the job thing, I would have stood proudly by my decision and explained it fully. I've never cared about status or wealth, so I doubt if it would have mattered much...hell I've never made 30k in a year in my life and I'm fine with it. Anyplace that would rather hire an ignorant kiss-ass than a morally upstanding individual isn't someplace I want to work anyway.
 
He's a jackass. How the hell did he make it to SSgt with that childish attitude?

Edit: I guess this is a good example as any for the removal of "promotion testing".
 
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
From Websters:

Main Entry: pa·tri·ot
Pronunciation: 'pA-trE-&t, -"ät, chiefly British 'pa-trE-&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French patriote compatriot, from Late Latin patriota, from Greek patriOtEs, from patria lineage, from patr-, patEr father
: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests

so if you love your country..but dont support the government...you are NOT a patriot...

therefore...Protestors are NOT patriots

If you must support the government to be a patriot, I guess I'm not a patriot.

Are you active or are you in an organization that is active is the removal and overthrowing of the Constitution?


no.

Do you support the Constitution?....that is our goverment.

If you want to change representation make sure to vote.

Errr the constitution is the blueprint that our elected government follows for organization and fundamental functions. If every politician were corrupt or performing in ways that citizens felt were contrary to their interpretation of the constitution, then overthrowing those politicians would not neccessarily be "against the constitution."

Zephyr

We have a defined process for changing our elected officials...none of which involve an overthrow....lets leave that up to the communists and dictators

You are incorrect. The idea is to not overthrow until all other options have been exhausted however. We can call for impeachments, file various suits, campaign, etc. If all of that fails, and if the government is refusing to adhere to the constitution and properly represent it's people...then we are called by all documents of our founders to take arms against the corrupted administration and cast it down, replacing it with a once again just and honorable rule.


Oh charade you are....you equate "the government" = "the administration" which is completely inaccurate. Dont forget the Legislative and Judicial branches....they would have to be "overthrown" as well...

Though if we took up arms against the adminstration, what would we use? Guns? how would you ward off and airstrike?

I recall some Iraqi inssurectionists who were able to ward off airstrikes, if they were even targets for airstrikes. Boots on the ground is the only way to fight a guerrila war.

Zephyr

Where do you keep your personal stash of anti-aircraft missles? and would your left or right foot be left after an apache helicopter shot you and your car up with a hellfire missle?

Tell that to the Iraqi insurrectionists, where the majority of the population doesn't actively support them, and the occupiers have no reason to feel sympathy, yet they continue to conduct attacks and elude consequences. In a nation with larger segments of the population in support of a resistance, and government "enforcing" soldiers who may have sympathies to the rebels, the situation would be more favorable for the insurrectionists.

Zephyr

But what I am referring to is your attack against the US government when it comes time for a regime change...what weapons would you and the rest of the "american" insurgents use that would hope to bring about their defeat.

I guarantee if a group started that in the US they would be harshly dealt with....with missles, bombs, airstrikes, tanks and the like...so I ask what as an American insurgent would you use to defeat the US military and remove the current government?

You are incorrect, for the reasons I stated. Furthermore, it is quite easy to build superiorly destructive weapons out of common materials; thermite plasma, chlorine gas, etc (hell just look at oklahoma city). You use long range high powered rifles, assassinate all targets of opportunity (any federal agent or politician or frankly anyone who supports them), you use bombs to take out installations, you continue to spread the truth, attack supply lines, advertise morale droppers, pick and choose the battles you can win. Take out a few storage facilities to gain access to limited stores of anti-aircraft or hard target weapons (or just rob a bank and then buy em on the black market). Trust someone who's made a lifetime study of revolution and combat, if a revolution was ever TRULY called for, the government would stand no chance. It would be long (2-5 years) and bloody (I'd guess 5-15 million in casualties), but in the end, the revolutionaries would win.
 
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
From Websters:

Main Entry: pa·tri·ot
Pronunciation: 'pA-trE-&t, -"ät, chiefly British 'pa-trE-&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French patriote compatriot, from Late Latin patriota, from Greek patriOtEs, from patria lineage, from patr-, patEr father
: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests

so if you love your country..but dont support the government...you are NOT a patriot...

therefore...Protestors are NOT patriots

If you must support the government to be a patriot, I guess I'm not a patriot.

Are you active or are you in an organization that is active is the removal and overthrowing of the Constitution?


no.

Do you support the Constitution?....that is our goverment.

If you want to change representation make sure to vote.

Errr the constitution is the blueprint that our elected government follows for organization and fundamental functions. If every politician were corrupt or performing in ways that citizens felt were contrary to their interpretation of the constitution, then overthrowing those politicians would not neccessarily be "against the constitution."

Zephyr

We have a defined process for changing our elected officials...none of which involve an overthrow....lets leave that up to the communists and dictators

You are incorrect. The idea is to not overthrow until all other options have been exhausted however. We can call for impeachments, file various suits, campaign, etc. If all of that fails, and if the government is refusing to adhere to the constitution and properly represent it's people...then we are called by all documents of our founders to take arms against the corrupted administration and cast it down, replacing it with a once again just and honorable rule.


Oh charade you are....you equate "the government" = "the administration" which is completely inaccurate. Dont forget the Legislative and Judicial branches....they would have to be "overthrown" as well...

Though if we took up arms against the adminstration, what would we use? Guns? how would you ward off and airstrike?

I recall some Iraqi inssurectionists who were able to ward off airstrikes, if they were even targets for airstrikes. Boots on the ground is the only way to fight a guerrila war.

Zephyr

Where do you keep your personal stash of anti-aircraft missles? and would your left or right foot be left after an apache helicopter shot you and your car up with a hellfire missle?

Tell that to the Iraqi insurrectionists, where the majority of the population doesn't actively support them, and the occupiers have no reason to feel sympathy, yet they continue to conduct attacks and elude consequences. In a nation with larger segments of the population in support of a resistance, and government "enforcing" soldiers who may have sympathies to the rebels, the situation would be more favorable for the insurrectionists.

Zephyr

But what I am referring to is your attack against the US government when it comes time for a regime change...what weapons would you and the rest of the "american" insurgents use that would hope to bring about their defeat.

I guarantee if a group started that in the US they would be harshly dealt with....with missles, bombs, airstrikes, tanks and the like...so I ask what as an American insurgent would you use to defeat the US military and remove the current government?

Money and assassinations
 
Originally posted by: maddogchen
Disappearing for 6 months or whatever long period it was counts as going AWOL to me, not patriotism.

The idiot should've never been in the Military to begin with, period.


 
I didn't notice this as part of 60 Minutes, nor did I see it mentioned in any of these postings:
He had surrendered to Army Officials 2 weeks ago

The most obvious thing about his story is that his entire life of lessons learned, and his Military training,
did not prepare him for what he would see, face, and have to perform under while in Iraq.
He was involved in a firefight - in which he saw, possibly by his own hand, civilians and childern die.

Psycologically he couldn't reconcile what had happened, and cannot face what he has done.
Simply put - he snapped, Battle Fatigue, Shell Shock, PTSD - whatever you want to call it,
he is psychologically damaged, and this will remain with him for the rest of his life.

While I was in 'Nam there were 2 opposite polar disorders that manifested with the troops in combat -
one was exactly what this guy did - flee. There is a 'Fight or Flight' mechanism that tries to protect
the human element from psychological shock in order to preserve the body and mind.
It's quite fragile, and can be easily overwhelmed with self concious re-evaluating.

The 'Other' way it manifested itself was in the loss of the 'Flight' part of the mentality,
There the person became a 'Thrill Kill Warrior' and has lost the total sense of their own vulnerability
to dangerous situations. They no longer care enough about themselves to distinguish between
living and dying - both their own, and those they encounted, either friend or foe.

The John Wayne 'Gung-Ho' mentality will usually get them killed, and in many situations causes the
involvement of their 'Band of Brothers' - where they wrongly respond to a non threatening situation,
and brings the focus of the enemy down upon themselves and thier outfit.
Shut up and don't shoot, you'll reveal your location - has it's place in warfare.

Friend of mine at Cam Rahn Bay worked as an Orderly/Male Nurse in the Psycho Ward there in '68 and he had sad tales to tell.
Many couldn't wait to get back to the front and kill everyone and everything that they would see.
Tragic part is that they were sending these soldiers home to the States after 30 to 90 days evaluation & treatment.
Psychological 'Time-Bombs' coming home to civilian life. Scarry stuff.

Yeah, technically he's a deserted, but I personally wouldn't want him back in my outfit.
Had enough fellow soldiers killed by 'Frendily Fire' and 'Fragging' to last me a lifetime.

 
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
I didn't notice this as part of 60 Minutes, nor did I see it mentioned in any of these postings:
He had surrendered to Army Officials 2 weeks ago

The most obvious thing about his story is that his entire life of lessons learned, and his Military training,
did not prepare him for what he would see, face, and have to perform under while in Iraq.
He was involved in a firefight - in which he saw, possibly by his own hand, civilians and childern die.

Psycologically he couldn't reconcile what had happened, and cannot face what he has done.
Simply put - he snapped, Battle Fatigue, Shell Shock, PTSD - whatever you want to call it,
he is psychologically damaged, and this will remain with him for the rest of his life.

While I was in 'Nam there were 2 opposite polar disorders that manifested with the troops in combat -
one was exactly what this guy did - flee. There is a 'Fight or Flight' mechanism that tries to protect
the human element from psychological shock in order to preserve the body and mind.
It's quite fragile, and can be easily overwhelmed with self concious re-evaluating.

The 'Other' way it manifested itself was in the loss of the 'Flight' part of the mentality,
There the person became a 'Thrill Kill Warrior' and has lost the total sense of their own vulnerability
to dangerous situations. They no longer care enough about themselves to distinguish between
living and dying - both their own, and those they encounted, either friend or foe.

The John Wayne 'Gung-Ho' mentality will usually get them killed, and in many situations causes the
involvement of their 'Band of Brothers' - where they wrongly respond to a non threatening situation,
and brings the focus of the enemy down upon themselves and thier outfit.
Shut up and don't shoot, you'll reveal your location - has it's place in warfare.

Friend of mine at Cam Rahn Bay worked as an Orderly/Male Nurse in the Psycho Ward there in '68 and he had sad tales to tell.
Many couldn't wait to get back to the front and kill everyone and everything that they would see.
Tragic part is that they were sending these soldiers home to the States after 30 to 90 days evaluation & treatment.
Psychological 'Time-Bombs' coming home to civilian life. Scarry stuff.

Yeah, technically he's a deserted, but I personally wouldn't want him back in my outfit.
Had enough fellow soldiers killed by 'Frendily Fire' and 'Fragging' to last me a lifetime.

Thanks for the info, that's a lot I hadn't read about. IF it's a psych thing, and not a rational decision, then that's different. That calls for psychological help and rehabilitation, not severe punishments. A person can only take so much. It's sad that he didn't have the ability to go to his superiors before it was too late, but then there often isn't time for that sort of thing. 8-(
 
I see the Princess of Wands is back with more of her lying, losing, lunacy.


Please reconsider where the line is here.

--AnandTech Moderator




 
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
I see the Princess of Wands is back with more of her lying, losing, lunacy.

The judge that sent your kid across the country to live with her mother deserves a medal.

Listen you ignorant cum sucking dick wad, just because you've never ever in your entire life done a single moral or responsible thing, is no reason to hate those attributes in me. I'll continue to pray for your painful and lingering death, as a worthless human waste that you have proven yourself to be. And I won't even blink if it happens.

Oh yes, thanks for reminding me. After passing my psych review with flying colors, my ex challenged the findings. She was charged and cited with contempt, forced to take her own psych review, and was found to have multiple serious problems, as we all knew she would. While I still don't have full custody, I'm within one more contempt order of it, or one more negative action by her. 😎 It's reassuring to know that despite the wishes of anti-christs like you, goodness and justice can still prevail in the world.

You two may now have a week off to cool down and reconsider the rules of engagement here.

--AnandTech Moderator
 
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