ST: High School English

olds

Elite Member
Mar 3, 2000
50,121
777
126
Is English taught in high school any more? It's been a while since I attended and it seems that many younger folks have a hard time forming a paragraph or even a proper thought.
The writing seems so jumbled.

I seem to remember that we were required to take 7 "levels" which worked out to 3 - 3.5 years.
My high school was 9th - 12th grade.

I know when I started high school, we had to take 4 years of PE. My junior year, they dropped it to 2.
 

Alone

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2006
7,490
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0
English was a required subject in each year of high school for me. However, it seems lately that everyone is given a passing grade if they're capable of conveying a point, even if their grammar and spelling is horribly lacking. It has become a sort of "freebie" subject.

Unfortunate.
 

ScottSwing

Banned
Jun 13, 2010
447
0
0
English was a required subject in each year of high school for me. However, it seems lately that everyone is given a passing grade if they're capable of conveying a point, even if their grammar and spelling is horribly lacking. It has become a sort of "freebie" subject.

Unfortunate.

Oh.
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,502
136
Yes.

The ability to write acceptable English for English class and other subjects does not necessarily transfer over to the internet or anywhere else, though. People will write in poor English due to convenience (speed) or out of laziness.
 

schneiderguy

Lifer
Jun 26, 2006
10,801
91
91
My highschool required four years of English. 3/4 years the teachers would give A's to any paper that met the length requirement, regardless of how well it was written.

People still have problems writing complete sentences in the two college English classes I have been in :(
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,502
136
My highschool required four years of English. 3/4 years the teachers would give A's to any paper that met the length requirement, regardless of how well it was written.

People still have problems writing complete sentences in the two college English classes I have been in :(

I dun know what u is talkin
 

mrjminer

Platinum Member
Dec 2, 2005
2,739
16
76
I was a high school English teacher, I got canned because the administration, much like everywhere, pushed their own agendas regarding education that was not in the best interest of the students and I refused to play ball. I was even told directly that the reason my contract was not getting renewed was not due to my teaching. All of the administrators flat out LIED on all of the "evaluations" of my teaching and I had documentation to prove it, submitted to the union, and nothing was done about it.

Every English teacher I've met knows that the kids are going downhill, but there is NOTHING that can be done because the administration is terrible everywhere and the government has, effectively, made teachers powerless in comparison to the administrators and regulations. Basically, administrators are politicians, you get shitcanned if you don't pass kids or if you don't go with their idiotic theories that don't work.

As an example of one of the infinite things occurring during the 7-month period I was there: a kid didn't want to do his work/get out his book, instead he just stood up and told me to get laid. I sent him to the office and they sent him back with a warning.

Further, the problems start EARLY. I substitute taught in this same district for about 5 months before landing the full-time English teacher position at one of the high schools. The kids in the middle school were reading "books" that were rated for seven year-olds, and the principals at one of the middle schools in the city told all of the teachers outright that they were not allowed to assign homework to the kids. The vast majority of what is wrong with kids, at least in the area of English, occurs at the grade-school/middle-school level, and high-school teachers are left holding the bag of shit and look bad because the standardized tests the students have to take in high school are exponentially more difficult than the ones they have to take at any earlier grade level. Another example: the summer reading program for the freshman at the high school I taught at -- the required book was "The Giver"... I read this book when I was in like, second grade.

Anyways, one of the problems with English is that it is developed over time. If administrators and government regulations are forcing teachers to pass kids on / telling them (not directly, of course) that they get fired if they have too low of pass rates, etc... then there is a problem. I was teaching high school freshman (9th grade) and the average reading level of my classes was fifth grade. I had to teach these kids what A FUCKING NOUN WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL. If government regulations and administrators FORCE teachers to lower their standards just to look good on paper, this is naturally what occurs: kids get passed on continually when they know jack shit until there is nothing that can be done for them.

In a subject like math where there's a lot of things that can be done independent of each other, this is less of an issue, but one that is present, nonetheless. In a subject like English, it's just a shitstorm producing idiots who don't even have the capability to critically think, a skill gained and honed largely and primarily from the English subject matter. This is probably why you get so many dipshit threads on ATOT like "how to select a primary care physician..." because people who get out of high school are too stupid to know that you get phone numbers out of a fucking phone book.

Anyways, the problem isn't just English. This may be where you notice the most problems right now, but that's because the skills within it constantly build upon the skills it contains; a failure at any level of building those skills destroys any further progress. In a subject like math, you can do pretty damn well just knowing addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division as long as you take a few minutes to look at a formula (not to knock other subjects, it's just that a lot of the skills other subjects contain are independent of each other or rely on much more basic subject matter).

I guarantee you that the problems are going to continue to swell in every subject until people won't be able to add or subtract, won't know what DNA is, and won't know what year the U.S. revolution occurred. All they'll know is random, useless information from various subjects that have no cohesion because the government and groups of administrators got together and forced teachers to teach only to meaningless standardized tests, while forcing them to use teaching philosophies that don't work, and allowing the kids to get away with things like telling their teachers go get laid.
 
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Babbles

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2001
8,253
14
81
I was watching some PBS Frontline documentary about the impact of computers and the internet on society. An interesting part is that they talked to students at MIT and Stanford (I think it was those two) who thought they were great at multi-tasking. They were in fact terrible at it even though as the "best and brightest" they thought they would be excellent. This then translated to their ability to write coherent papers. Essentially their writing was found to be bullet point paragraphs that didn't not really flow in any sort of traditional manner.

Some of the English professors lamented that they can no longer assign long books because the attention span of students is just much lower than in previous generations. Something to keep in mind is that these are otherwise quite intelligent kids; we aren't talking community college kids here. So if their ability is going downhill, then what does that say about the rest of them?
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,502
136
I was watching some PBS Frontline documentary about the impact of computers and the internet on society. An interesting part is that they talked to students at MIT and Stanford (I think it was those two) who thought they were great at multi-tasking. They were in fact terrible at it even though as the "best and brightest" they thought they would be excellent. This then translated to their ability to write coherent papers. Essentially their writing was found to be bullet point paragraphs that didn't not really flow in any sort of traditional manner.

Some of the English professors lamented that they can no longer assign long books because the attention span of students is just much lower than in previous generations. Something to keep in mind is that these are otherwise quite intelligent kids; we aren't talking community college kids here. So if their ability is going downhill, then what does that say about the rest of them?

Since middle school when I first got my own computer, multitasking has greatly killed my ability to concentrate. I realized this only somewhere in sophmore year of college. It's better to study single subjects in blocks of time, with no distractions. Same thing for undertaking any set of tasks; knock each task out one at a time instead of trying to do many things at once. It's more effective usually, even for people who think they are great at multitasking.
 

Babbles

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2001
8,253
14
81
Since middle school when I first got my own computer, multitasking has greatly killed my ability to concentrate. I realized this only somewhere in sophmore year of college. It's better to study single subjects in blocks of time, with no distractions. Same thing for undertaking any set of tasks; knock each task out one at a time instead of trying to do many things at once. It's more effective usually, even for people who think they are great at multitasking.

Totally agree. When I am doing work at home, I usually find that I need to go out to a coffee shop to reduce the distractions at home.

I was in college from 1996 - 2000 and the internet was nowhere as pervasive then as it is now. If it was, I would have been an even worse college student. I'm doing a MBA now and the difference in computing culture from just these past ten years is amazing. I never dreamed of having a laptop in a lecture. While it is tremendously useful, it is also a tremendous temptation to fuck off.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
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I dun know what u is talkin

It's more difficult for me to write in short hand, because I have to consciously think and process it that way.

"Who dat you talkin bout huh, rite now dis taken long time to rite."

So, I would have to assume if you write like that, you think like that as well. AKA - you're a fucking retard.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Some of the English professors lamented that they can no longer assign long books because the attention span of students is just much lower than in previous generations. Something to keep in mind is that these are otherwise quite intelligent kids; we aren't talking community college kids here. So if their ability is going downhill, then what does that say about the rest of them?

You know one problem I had while I was in school? Teachers assigned me books to read. I'd consider myself fairly affluent in English (look, I even used a big word! ;)), but I honestly hate being bored. I recall getting in trouble quite often because I simply would never read the books that were assigned to me. I would read a chapter or two and simply have no interest at all in the book. My fifth grade reading teacher got adamant about it enough that my parents had to actually document that I read the book (Farmer Boy... blech).

The only time I ever had to read a book and actually enjoyed it was in eighth grade. The reason is that the teacher let me choose my own book, but amusingly enough, I only chose the book because it had a space ship on the front. Quite a few of you have probably heard of the book I choose.

Maybe I just don't have a desire to read like others may, but I think it would've been better for me if I was at least given a chance to find another book to put in place of the usual reading material... or perhaps if teachers had a list that spanned multiple genres. That sounds costly, but you could leave some variety up to the kids... maybe visit a library for once :p.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
You know one problem I had while I was in school? Teachers assigned me books to read. I'd consider myself fairly affluent in English (look, I even used a big word! ;)), but I honestly hate being bored. I recall getting in trouble quite often because I simply would never read the books that were assigned to me. I would read a chapter or two and simply have no interest at all in the book. My fifth grade reading teacher got adamant about it enough that my parents had to actually document that I read the book (Farmer Boy... blech).

The only time I ever had to read a book and actually enjoyed it was in eighth grade. The reason is that the teacher let me choose my own book, but amusingly enough, I only chose the book because it had a space ship on the front. Quite a few of you have probably heard of the book I choose.

Maybe I just don't have a desire to read like others may, but I think it would've been better for me if I was at least given a chance to find another book to put in place of the usual reading material... or perhaps if teachers had a list that spanned multiple genres. That sounds costly, but you could leave some variety up to the kids... maybe visit a library for once :p.

The correct word is fluent here, not affluent.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
English was a required subject in each year of high school for me. However, it seems lately that everyone is given a passing grade if they're capable of conveying a point, even if their grammar and spelling is horribly lacking. It has become a sort of "freebie" subject.

Unfortunate.

self-pwnage,
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
I was a high school English teacher, I got canned because the administration, much like everywhere, pushed their own agendas regarding education that was not in the best interest of the students and I refused to play ball. I was even told directly that the reason my contract was not getting renewed was not due to my teaching. All of the administrators flat out LIED on all of the "evaluations" of my teaching and I had documentation to prove it, submitted to the union, and nothing was done about it.

Every English teacher I've met knows that the kids are going downhill, but there is NOTHING that can be done because the administration is terrible everywhere and the government has, effectively, made teachers powerless in comparison to the administrators and regulations. Basically, administrators are politicians, you get shitcanned if you don't pass kids or if you don't go with their idiotic theories that don't work.

As an example of one of the infinite things occurring during the 7-month period I was there: a kid didn't want to do his work/get out his book, instead he just stood up and told me to get laid. I sent him to the office and they sent him back with a warning.

Further, the problems start EARLY. I substitute taught in this same district for about 5 months before landing the full-time English teacher position at one of the high schools. The kids in the middle school were reading "books" that were rated for seven year-olds, and the principals at one of the middle schools in the city told all of the teachers outright that they were not allowed to assign homework to the kids. The vast majority of what is wrong with kids, at least in the area of English, occurs at the grade-school/middle-school level, and high-school teachers are left holding the bag of shit and look bad because the standardized tests the students have to take in high school are exponentially more difficult than the ones they have to take at any earlier grade level. Another example: the summer reading program for the freshman at the high school I taught at -- the required book was "The Giver"... I read this book when I was in like, second grade.

Anyways, one of the problems with English is that it is developed over time. If administrators and government regulations are forcing teachers to pass kids on / telling them (not directly, of course) that they get fired if they have too low of pass rates, etc... then there is a problem. I was teaching high school freshman (9th grade) and the average reading level of my classes was fifth grade. I had to teach these kids what A FUCKING NOUN WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL. If government regulations and administrators FORCE teachers to lower their standards just to look good on paper, this is naturally what occurs: kids get passed on continually when they know jack shit until there is nothing that can be done for them.

In a subject like math where there's a lot of things that can be done independent of each other, this is less of an issue, but one that is present, nonetheless. In a subject like English, it's just a shitstorm producing idiots who don't even have the capability to critically think, a skill gained and honed largely and primarily from the English subject matter. This is probably why you get so many dipshit threads on ATOT like "how to select a primary care physician..." because people who get out of high school are too stupid to know that you get phone numbers out of a fucking phone book.

Anyways, the problem isn't just English. This may be where you notice the most problems right now, but that's because the skills within it constantly build upon the skills it contains; a failure at any level of building those skills destroys any further progress. In a subject like math, you can do pretty damn well just knowing addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division as long as you take a few minutes to look at a formula (not to knock other subjects, it's just that a lot of the skills other subjects contain are independent of each other or rely on much more basic subject matter).

I guarantee you that the problems are going to continue to swell in every subject until people won't be able to add or subtract, won't know what DNA is, and won't know what year the U.S. revolution occurred. All they'll know is random, useless information from various subjects that have no cohesion because the government and groups of administrators got together and forced teachers to teach only to meaningless standardized tests, while forcing them to use teaching philosophies that don't work, and allowing the kids to get away with things like telling their teachers go get laid.

fail for wordiness in the first sentence and not using a semicolon or period to break it up.
 
Last edited:

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,572
126
i think my school required 4. i had 5 years worth due to "taking" an advanced lit class and advanced something or other class my last year (they were covers for the academic decathlon team, which the school admin blessed cuz we won and stuff)

the district where my mom teaches is going for a 4/4 schedule starting next year. 4 years english, 4 years math, 4 years science, and 4 years history/civics




I was a high school English teacher, I got canned because the administration, much like everywhere, pushed their own agendas regarding education that was not in the best interest of the students and I refused to play ball. I was even told directly that the reason my contract was not getting renewed was not due to my teaching. All of the administrators flat out LIED on all of the "evaluations" of my teaching and I had documentation to prove it, submitted to the union, and nothing was done about it.
mom complains about kids not knowing math basics in high school. stuff like what you've posted and what i hear from mom are why i firmly believe 50% of school admins could just be fired tomorrow and no one would miss them. they have to create plans and courses of action, etc., to make it look like they do real work. they've lost focus on the classroom. mom was complaining to me the other day that kids have figured out that the admin only allows them to fail once or twice during their schooling. after that they just get passed along. meanwhile, the state has dumbed down the mandatory testing (though it's going on a national program in the next few years).
 
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fire400

Diamond Member
Nov 21, 2005
5,204
21
81
repitition is real, and practice makes good, perfect practice makes perfect.

any college student that is serious about graduating with higher reading and writing retention abilities will know that studying outside of guided coursework material is a must.

you enjoy life better when you know the rules. ignorance can be bliss, but it's certainly not always the best route for exploration.