SSD in USB 3.0 enclosure: TRIM issues?

[DrMrLordX]

I have read that it is theoretically possible that a SATA SSD inside a USB 3.0 enclosure could support TRIM, provided that:

The operating system supports ATA -> SCSI command translation
The enclosure supports UASP (rather than just BOT)

Assuming one is running Linux (let's say Ubuntu 14.04), can anyone think of an enclosure that would allow proper TRIM support?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Okay, maybe the intended use case is overly-specific (or just plain impossible). Let's come at this from a different angle.

I've heard that in 99%+ of cases when running a SATA SSD in a USB enclosure, one should expect no support for TRIM, even in the case when the enclosure is UASP-compliant. So, the recommendations I've seen revolve around choosing a drive that functions well without TRIM. Usually this boils down to the controller, and the controller I've seen cited most often as being suitable for this application is anything in the SandForce 2xxx series.

Am I wrong here, or am I just dealing with dated information? For a budget build, I've been looking at a Kingston 120GB SSDNow v300 (SandForce 2281) in a StarTech USB 3.0 enclosure. If there are other, better controllers out there that handle non-TRIM usage just as well as (or better than) the Sandforce 2281, perhaps I should be looking at drives that feature said controllers.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Okay, maybe the intended use case is overly-specific (or just plain impossible). Let's come at this from a different angle.

I've heard that in 99%+ of cases when running a SATA SSD in a USB enclosure, one should expect no support for TRIM, even in the case when the enclosure is UASP-compliant. So, the recommendations I've seen revolve around choosing a drive that functions well without TRIM. Usually this boils down to the controller, and the controller I've seen cited most often as being suitable for this application is anything in the SandForce 2xxx series.

Am I wrong here, or am I just dealing with dated information? For a budget build, I've been looking at a Kingston 120GB SSDNow v300 (SandForce 2281) in a StarTech USB 3.0 enclosure. If there are other, better controllers out there that handle non-TRIM usage just as well as (or better than) the Sandforce 2281, perhaps I should be looking at drives that feature said controllers.

OR -- find a very handy USB 3.0/eSATA "docking station" for $25 and use TRIMCHECK to prove or disprove -- with the USB.3.0 connection, of course.

 

[DrMrLordX]

If you've got a product link, I'll look into it. Thanks!

 

[BonzaiDuck]

If you've got a product link, I'll look into it. Thanks!

We're all busy, and it's amazing how I've overlooked some solutions to other problems I've researched just for not making enough web-searches.

But TrimCheck was featured in discussions about TRIM here during this last year.

You should be able to find the right link (I verified the link is there) in this "SSDReview" article. A lot of freeware utility hosting sites offer it, I think, like Softpedia et al.

http://www.thessdreview.com/daily-news/latest-buzz/trimcheck-does-your-ssd-really-have-trim-working/

You need to run it twice. [This becomes obvious from the instructions that follow the first time -- in the Command window.] The guideline to wait 30 seconds or so seems to be reliable.

ONE THING: I can't remember whether folks were using it to validate TRIM on WHOLE ARRAYS, but I thought they did.

UPDATE: I got confused between different threads, and it's obvious you're talking about USB 3.0 interface for an SSD. I'd say -- no problem -- try the TRIMCHECK program on the USB-connected SSD!! Fact is, if Acronis or Parted Magic works for low-level cloning through USB connections, the TRIMCHECK program will at least TELL you whether you're "good to go" with TRIM.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I'll give it a shot if/when I finally get around to meddling with a USB-connected SSD. Much appreciated.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

I tested with an ASMedia ASM1053e controller-based USB 3.0 enclosure, and the results of trim testing was in-determinant. I am using an Samsung 830 SSD in it.

EDIT: This is a UASP supporting controller.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I tested with an ASMedia ASM1053e controller-based USB 3.0 enclosure, and the results of trim testing was in-determinant. I am using an Samsung 830 SSD in it.

EDIT: This is a UASP supporting controller.

Interesting. Under what OS?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I tested with an ASMedia ASM1053e controller-based USB 3.0 enclosure, and the results of trim testing was in-determinant. I am using an Samsung 830 SSD in it.

EDIT: This is a UASP supporting controller.

And you ran the program twice, giving a gap of time to assure valid second-pass results? I'm stunned if that's the case and it didn't provide a result.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Interesting. Under what OS?

Windows 7 Enterprise

And you ran the program twice, giving a gap of time to assure valid second-pass results? I'm stunned if that's the case and it didn't provide a result.

I absolutely did wait between tests I tested a couple of times, and each time resulted in that same answer.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Well, that gives us at least one combination of drive/enclosure/OS in which TRIM function can't be certified. I think it's safe to say that, in a majority of cases, TRIM won't work over USB 3.0 right now.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Well, that gives us at least one combination of drive/enclosure/OS in which TRIM function can't be certified. I think it's safe to say that, in a majority of cases, TRIM won't work over USB 3.0 right now.

Seems counterintuitive, that I could run a low-level disk utility like Acronis DD or Parted Magic through USB, but TRIM wouldn't be implemented. But if we couldn't get TRIM with some RAID configurations, I suppose USB might also be a problem.

Good to know, anyway.

The docking station I use (Thermaltake BlacX) has both eSATA and USB interfaces. Frankly, I'd use a USB disk drive (2.0 or 3.0) only for backup and transport purposes -- not for some 24/7 application. But I've had the need to use the docking station with SSDs -- cloning, for instance. And you don't get eSATA on my old laptop.

 

[DrMrLordX]

The docking station I use (Thermaltake BlacX) has both eSATA and USB interfaces. Frankly, I'd use a USB disk drive (2.0 or 3.0) only for backup and transport purposes -- not for some 24/7 application. But I've had the need to use the docking station with SSDs -- cloning, for instance. And you don't get eSATA on my old laptop.

Normally I wouldn't use USB for long-term storage either, but now that the A8-7600 is widely available, there is the possibility of doing bclk-based overclocks with the SATA controller in IDE mode. The easiest way to cope with that and still use an SSD would be to go USB. On a budget, the old Kingston drive I linked in an earlier post here plus the cheap Startech enclosure might be okay if Sandforce controllers are as good in non-TRIM operation as I've read. If the 7700k ever comes down in price, though, then the extra cost associated with using the enclosure will sort of kill the value proposition of using the 7600 for overclocking.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Hmm, looks like the Mushkin Ventura Ultra line of USB flash drives feature a Sandisk controller and shows working TRIM support as well. No need for me to look at enclosures.

edit: it does get hot, which could hurt performance during sustained read/write operations. Hmm. Oh well!