SSD for desktop even though I rarely boot?

[glugglug]

I know. I not only shut the system down, I pull the surge protector strip it and all its peripherals are connected to...from the wall.

But we each should do what's right for us.

Unless it's a laptop with a still-working battery, this is a really BAD IDEA!

Back in the days before ATX, you could do this, as off was really off, and the battery on the motherboard that maintains the BIOS settings could last a few years.

Nowadays, the expectation is that even if the computer is turned off, it will still be getting trickle power to maintain settings and such from the wall. Unplugging it, your BIOS battery will not last more than a few months, and you will constantly be getting scrambled settings.

SSD wakes much faster from sleep than a HDD does. You just don't want to hibernate (or hybrid sleep).

 

[Virgorising]

Unless it's a laptop with a still-working battery, this is a really BAD IDEA!

Back in the days before ATX, you could do this, as off was really off, and the battery on the motherboard that maintains the BIOS settings could last a few years.

Nowadays, the expectation is that even if the computer is turned off, it will still be getting trickle power to maintain settings and such from the wall. Unplugging it, your BIOS battery will not last more than a few months, and you will constantly be getting scrambled settings.

I use this system every day I am home. Been doing what I evolved to do from 3 desktops ago, never once had a problem.

So far, had to replace only one CMOS battery, in the lappy I almost never use.

And, pulling the one cord from the wall (takes under a second) as I do makes absolute sense both pragmatically and scientifically.

My oldest Optiplex (I always keep the most recent backup one), I just gave away when I got this latest one (I now use the one I moved up from as backup).....booted perfectly in its new home, I was there, and I had not used it for 3 years. And all my Optis have been ATX.

See this:

You won't wear your computer out by turning it off

You won't wear your computer out any faster by cycling it once a day, or even a few times a day. Modern computers just aren't that fragile. I did hardware troubleshooting at Apple, by the way. If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe Jonathan Koomey, a project scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, who says, "PCs are not hurt by turning them on and off a few times a day." [SIZE=-2]([/SIZE][SIZE=-2]Wall St. Journal[/SIZE][SIZE=-2]) [/SIZE]The useful life of a computer these days is only a few years anyway. The computer will become obsolete long before you wear it out, no matter how often you cycle it. Bottom line: Turn your computer off when you're done with it (or simply Sleep it), and don't worry about it. [SIZE=-2]([/SIZE][SIZE=-2]more on this topic...[/SIZE][SIZE=-2])[/SIZE]
It also doesn't take more energy to start a computer than to keep it running. The only extra energy it takes to start a computer is the two minutes or so it takes to start up, which is barely different than any other two minutes' of use. You'll always save energy by turning your computer off when you're not using it. Of course you don't have to turn it off since you can easily use the sleep or standby mode instead.
The myth of "turning it off uses more energy than keeping it on all the time" exists for just about every device that exists, and it's wrong in every single case, in practical terms. (Meaning, you will never, ever, ever see any savings on your electrical bill by keeping something on all the time vs. turning it off. Period.) You will always save electricity by turning your device off when you're not using it.

 

[Virgorising]

1. Yes, it's very much worth it. For the fasterr launching of applications and the faster access to data and files.

2. Look at your current usage. I'd bet that a 120-128MB SSD is probably more than sufficient.

I respect your decision. I will go there when I decide the time is right for ME, and I am tired of sharing the specifics of the whys.

 

[Virgorising]

My person experience has been that I've had a 240GB Mushkin Chronos Deluxe (supposedly the cat's meow, the fastest consumer SSD on the market at the time), go completely bad (no BIOS detect at all) within a month of using it in my netbook and desktop PC.

Contrast that with over a dozen HDDs, in the same period, still spinning and working fine.

SSDs are fast, sure, but their reliability still HAS NOT approached HDDs. Which is one big reason we have yet to see mainstream OEM desktop computers shipping with pre-installed SSDs.


Edit: Here's a thread with at least two Kingston V300 (2nd-gen SandForce, like my Mushkin) that died, one within six months.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316409

Nothin but net. Forget, confirming data are all of the net, but the other kind of net.()

Mechanical drives have been around for many decades. I think 6. When SDD technology matures into greater reliability, I will go there. Esp given what I use my computers FOR, and that with what I now have, I no way need more speed.

Anyone who chooses to do otherwise, FINE!

 

[gamerboy]

Ok decided to get a Samsung 840 Evo 250G drive after watching some vids of people opening up programs using SSD. I think that's plenty of space for now without a HDD. I used to have a 1 TB HDD but barely filled up much on it - a couple of games (I only really play one or two at any given time), the OS, and programs, which most of don't take up much space. I don't really save videos or music, so I should be good to go. Thanks for the responses.

 

[glugglug]

See this:

You won't wear your computer out by turning it off

You won't wear your computer out any faster by cycling it once a day, or even a few times a day. Modern computers just aren't that fragile. I did hardware troubleshooting at Apple, by the way. If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe Jonathan Koomey, a project scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, who says, "PCs are not hurt by turning them on and off a few times a day." [SIZE=-2]([/SIZE][SIZE=-2]Wall St. Journal[/SIZE][SIZE=-2]) [/SIZE]The useful life of a computer these days is only a few years anyway. The computer will become obsolete long before you wear it out, no matter how often you cycle it. Bottom line: Turn your computer off when you're done with it (or simply Sleep it), and don't worry about it. [SIZE=-2]([/SIZE][SIZE=-2]more on this topic...[/SIZE][SIZE=-2])[/SIZE]
It also doesn't take more energy to start a computer than to keep it running. The only extra energy it takes to start a computer is the two minutes or so it takes to start up, which is barely different than any other two minutes' of use. You'll always save energy by turning your computer off when you're not using it. Of course you don't have to turn it off since you can easily use the sleep or standby mode instead.
The myth of "turning it off uses more energy than keeping it on all the time" exists for just about every device that exists, and it's wrong in every single case, in practical terms. (Meaning, you will never, ever, ever see any savings on your electrical bill by keeping something on all the time vs. turning it off. Period.) You will always save electricity by turning your device off when you're not using it.

I'm not saying not to turn it off (as in shutdown). I'm saying not to unplug it, unless it's a laptop. Unlike most modern electronic devices, the amount of power used by your desktop PC when "off" is negiigible, assuming you don't have any offline USB charging features enabled.

 

[Virgorising]

I'm not saying not to turn it off (as in shutdown). I'm saying not to unplug it, unless it's a laptop. Unlike most modern electronic devices, the amount of power used by your desktop PC when "off" is negiigible, assuming you don't have any offline USB charging features enabled.

I know what you were sayin....and I stand by all I have chosen to do forever and all I have posted about it. MAINLY THE UNPLUGGING.

Again, my old Opti GX260, the one I just gave away.....was in a distant corner, neither I nor any power source had touched it for years, and she booted up perfectly in her new home.

And for the bazillionth TIME, power cost is NOT MY CONCERN re always pulling the plug!!! Being smart in protecting the system and all its peripherals.....IS.

Again, after hurricane Sandy (far more devastating here than any normal blackout).....nearly all RCN subscribers in this building......like 80, others still use Time-Warner.....had to have an RCN human arrive in person and replace both their cable modem and broadband modem! I, only cause of my unplugging strategy.....only had to have my cable modem replaced......cause that must remain plugged in or else it looses its complex programming.

Cause my broadband modem is plugged into the same strip my main system is and all its peripherals are, my broadband modem is just fine.

One of the lobby attendants told me computers got fried too!!!!

RELAX, I do nothing capriciously........and this, I've been doing for a long time. Would never think of doing otherwise.

 

[Virgorising]

Just found this, OMG....the NAVY, 10K computers at this location! Serious money!!! NOW thinking re that part....and forget the 10K, check out the percentages. I jus learned sumthing! That my for me, no brainer strategy MIGHT, over time actually be saving some! But that would be only the ICING.

And notice they say also turn off the power strip! Given what has to be the vast numbers of THOSE, just pulling them all from some outlet would not be an option.

And WE taxpayers are paying for that energy!!!!! WE are! Well, hopefully, WERE in the past, before they wrote this and, I am sure send it to everyone there.

http://www.vcstar.com/news/2013/nov/13/long-weekend-turn-off-your-computer/?partner=RSS

 

[GlacierFreeze]

Just found this, OMG....the NAVY, 10K computers at this location! Serious money!!! NOW thinking re that part....and forget the 10K, check out the percentages. I jus learned sumthing! That my for me, no brainer strategy MIGHT, over time actually be saving some! But that would be only the ICING.

And notice they say also turn off the power strip! Given what has to be the vast numbers of THOSE, just pulling them all from some outlet would not be an option.

And WE taxpayers are paying for that energy!!!!! WE are! Well, hopefully, in the past, before they wrote this and, I am sure send it to everyone there.

http://www.vcstar.com/news/2013/nov/13/long-weekend-turn-off-your-computer/?partner=RSS

Are you on crack? You always post like you're on crack cocaine. Serious question.

 

[Virgorising]

Ok decided to get a Samsung 840 Evo 250G drive after watching some vids of people opening up programs using SSD. I think that's plenty of space for now without a HDD. I used to have a 1 TB HDD but barely filled up much on it - a couple of games (I only really play one or two at any given time), the OS, and programs, which most of don't take up much space. I don't really save videos or music, so I should be good to go. Thanks for the responses.

Knew U wanted it! Enjoy!!!!!!:biggrin:

 

[Virgorising]

Boy, I am learning new things! I knew, and posted, even when shut down properly and pulled from power source (as we now know I do), a system holds a charge for a long time which, I said, is why, if I need to work inside the box, I always touch metal.

BUT, I had no clue re HOW LONG IT HOLDS A CHARGE, forget, enuff to kill you! See below....and from an official certified tech human:


A computer is always on even when you have it switched off. The only time is when it completely dead is when the psu has been unplugged and switched off for several hours (sometimes days).

A psu that has been unplugged and turned of for 3 days can still output enough [FONT=inherit !important]voltage [/FONT]to give you an electric shock that is enough to kill you, so in that essence it can still supply power to the motherboard.

Microsoft Certified Professional
compTIA Certified Professional

 

[sm625]

I dont buy it. The charge in a pc bleeds off relatively quickly. If I short the power supply pins on the back of the pc even just 10 seconds after unplugging it, I dont get any sparks. A voltmeter on the 12V supply shows it goes almost immediately to 0V.

 

[Virgorising]

I dont buy it. The charge in a pc bleeds off relatively quickly. If I short the power supply pins on the back of the pc even just 10 seconds after unplugging it, I dont get any sparks. A voltmeter on the 12V supply shows it goes almost immediately to 0V.

Well! Just found THIS which would confirm your take!:thumbsup:

http://www.overclock.net/a/capacitor-safety-in-power-supplies

So much for formal credentials in this.....and far too many other arenas.

But I am still going to ground myself if I have to do anything inside the box right after shutting down/unplugging.
Before I replaced my first mobo, I delved intensely online, and everywhere, I was told to keep grounding myself. I took it seriously!

U think, given these new data, that is really necessary?:\

I think it is, cause in this, it's about the static WE bring.

 

[Sunburn74]

Personally I think its kind of ridiculous we're still having the "value of a SSD" discussion in this day and age where high powered ssds are <50 cents a gig easily and you have anandtechs general storage bench showing them destroying conventional SSDs in pretty much every scenario you can imagine. Honestly when the storage system in my tablet outperforms the storage system in your PC, you should be updating.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Unplugging it, your BIOS battery will not last more than a few months, and you will constantly be getting scrambled settings.

That is somewhat of an exaggeration. I would say the settings would last a year or two.

Remember, new motherboards sit in warehouses for months, and they still have the correct (Taiwan) time set when you hook them up.

 

[Virgorising]

This is somewhat of an exaggeration. I would say the settings would last a year or two.

Remember, new motherboards sit in warehouses for months, and they still have the correct (Taiwan) time set when you hook them up.

And.......he also has DIPLOMACY!!!!!!()

Increasingly impressive and refreshing amalgam.

PS When they told me what they wanted for new CMOS batt for my little Alienware Sentia across the St at Staples.....I left, went home and got one for 1/5th the price on eBay. But when the Staples guy told me the price, I was like, "How much is it WITHOUT the 14k hoops, cause I got a lot of those already, not just the ones I have in today!":sneaky:

 

[LoveMachine]

This thread has been completely derailed from the OP's question. Good to know that his/her issue has been resolved. Shall we move this discussion to another thread, or has it been hacked to death yet?

 

[KingFatty]

I love love love how delightful it is to install video card drivers off an SSD. The reason is that you'll do this quite often because new drives are released frequently, and they are big downloads, and it usually involves decompressing/unzipping lots of files, then running them. When I switched to SSD I was surprised how much better this routine drudgery became.

Also, can anyone identify an anomalous power situation that could damage a computer that was plugged into a UPS that was left plugged into the wall? I thought the battery acted as a sort of 'firewall' between your computer and the wall, so even if a nuclear fusion reactor exploded and sent out a massive spike of energy, the UPS would block it?

Also, I think it's tiresome to plug and unplug a plug many times. Think about how you do that many times per year! It's like, hey, it's just a little thing each day, but it adds up! I think it's incorrect to just say that unplugging the computer has zero downsides, because it's a real pain in the butt after many times! Try to explain to a child that he has to make his bed every morning, he will complain even though it's just a little task each day.

 

[hot120]

^^^Agreed!

 

[gamerboy]

Ok, installed the SSD (Evo 250 gig). There is no way I am going back to a HDD. Lol at me. Loving this. There is on-paper discussions and then there is real world use.

 

[CRCSUX]

Ok, installed the SSD (Evo 250 gig). There is no way I am going back to a HDD. Lol at me. Loving this. There is on-paper discussions and then there is real world use.

Im glad you love it, its great when stuff insta loads.

Im getting the exact ssd you got sometime soon (being cheap and wanting price to drop a little)

 

[glugglug]

Also, can anyone identify an anomalous power situation that could damage a computer that was plugged into a UPS that was left plugged into the wall? I thought the battery acted as a sort of 'firewall' between your computer and the wall, so even if a nuclear fusion reactor exploded and sent out a massive spike of energy, the UPS would block it?

I can verify that it does happen, after having been on the simultaneously worst and most expensive utility in the world (ConEd) for 13 years. During the many brownouts preceding the 10 day summer blackout in Astoria (officially we never had a blackout, as the voltage at the outlet measured 32V AC), I had a cap on my motherboard literally explode, while plugged into a APC Back-UPS RS 1500VA. I don't know for sure if the damage came through the UPS... there was a likely other path, as the power lines melted onto the RCN cable line, which caught fire, so it is quite possible the motherboard may have been fried through the TV tuner card.

I also had 2 phones fried while on the chargers using the amazing quality ConEd service, but those chargers were not on UPS. Now I plug all my chargers into power strips on UPS, even though that seems stupidly redundant.

Since then I've been using the more expensive SmartUPS line rather than BackUPS, which provide a true sine wave even during outages or when the voltage is out of whack and needs to be adjusted.... At least if you buy them from APC they are more expensive.... they also sell the replacement batteries for close to the UPS price. The batteries for the larger SmartUPSes are a common standard, and can be found cheap on e-bay, along with refurb SmartUPS sans battery.

There are 3 different general types of UPS, "Offline/Standby", "Line-interactive", and "Online/Double Conversion". The majority of home UPSes are one of the first two types above. It takes time for these to switch between passing power from the wall and generating it from the battery, and the surge suppressor can only block so much, so it is definitely possible for stuff to be damaged through them. Only the "Online/Double Conversion" type provides 100% protection like you describe, and is usually targeted at enterprise, not home use, both because of cost and because there is more heat generated and they usually have continuously running fans which may be noisy.

 

[bigboxes]

SSDs are fast, sure, but their reliability still HAS NOT approached HDDs. Which is one big reason we have yet to see mainstream OEM desktop computers shipping with pre-installed SSDs.http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316409

To be fair, OEM not putting SSDs in desktops are more about saving money than reliability. Just like monitors, the masses want cheap. So cheap they get.

 

[glugglug]

To be fair, OEM not putting SSDs in desktops are more about saving money than reliability. Just like monitors, the masses want cheap. So cheap they get.

This.

Premium notebooks have used SSDs for several years now. Apple has put an SSD in every Macbook since 2009.