SSD for an HTPC build

[zliqdedo]

Hi. I'm wondering which SSD is best suited for going into an HTPC build. It doesn't have to be big - ~90GB would be alright, but seeing as ~120GB drives aren't really more expensive these days, it seems that's the capacity I'm looking at. It would primarily be used for fast booting, web browsing and video playback software; I wouldn't really put a lot of stuff on it.

My absolute priority is fast Windows boot time - I'd like it to be as fast as possible. Now, I realize that's a bit of a silly question/matter and the answer is probably - most modern SSDs pretty much boot the same, plus there are other factors that have an impact on boot time. Still, I'd like to hear your opinions - there might be something I'm missing. Maybe recommendations for a motherboard with short POST? Should I be looking at a specific model or is it a matter of manufacturer or even chipset?

The platform would be: mini-ITX H77/Z77 (or Haswell equivalent), Ivy Bridge dual/quad-core with HD 4000 (or Haswell with GT2), 8GB 1600 dual-channel.

As far as fast booting is concerned, what should I be looking for in an SSD - capacity, controller, synchronous vs. asynchronous NAND?

Thank you for your time.

 

[piasabird]

You going to use a video with this system? Play computer Games? If not you might consider Thin Mini-Itx and MSATA SSD. This seems to be a trend in embedded devices.

 

[zliqdedo]

Won't be using a dedicated GPU, won't be playing games; mSATA is an option as long as I find a mini-ITX board which has it and I'm happy with. One comes to mind. Anyway, physical storage space is not an issue, I'm more concerned with which SSD to buy (controller, manufacturer, capacity, NAND type, etc.) where fast booting is the main priority.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Won't be using a dedicated GPU, won't be playing games; mSATA is an option as long as I find a mini-ITX board which has it and I'm happy with. One comes to mind. Anyway, physical storage space is not an issue, I'm more concerned with which SSD to buy (controller, manufacturer, capacity, NAND type, etc.) where fast booting is the main priority.

Any SSD will do. Just look for the cheapest one in the capacity you want. The only two things you need to look out for are OCZ and Sandforce-based drives. If reliability is paramount look at Intel or Samsung.

You could look at this gigabyte board. It seems to be a pretty good HTPC board.

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4405#ov

 

[SSBrain]

Phison-based SSDs like the Crucial V4 are better avoided too. Many people have noted poor performance during real-life tasks.

Sandisk "SSD" models (they could have chosen a less generic name. It seems sometimes the OEM version of this model is called "U100") have poor performance too and should be avoided. Here's the 64 GB model, for example:

Sandisk Ultra Plus and Sandisk Extreme models are decent, though.

 

[Phynaz]

Wouldn't a HTPC be on all the time?

Anyway anything current except OCZ.

 

[zliqdedo]

@Insert_Nickname, That's pretty much what I thought up beforehand, seems like there's no 'better' answer. About the motherboard - that's actually one of the models (although the H77 variant with WIFI) I'm considering. Should be solid.

@SSBrain, Thanks. I will keep those in mind and steer clear.

@Phynaz, Not all the time, I plan on powering it off when not in use, however, it would be on for long periods of time.

Why all the negatives towards OCZ and/or SandForce? Have you guys actually had bad experience with one of those first hand? I've worked with three SandForce drives, one OCZ, none of which have failed so far: Corsair Force 3 120GB, OCZ Agility 3 120GB, Kingston SV300S37A 120GB. I'm actually considering that Kingston for the HTPC build as it's quite cheap and a decent performer. For or against?

I was hoping to get a bit more technical advice on how to maximize boot-up time on the SSD/mainboard side. Like for example, is there a controller that's better at booting than the rest? Is there a mainboard model, manufacturer or chipset I should be looking at for short POST? Asynchronous vs. synchronous NAND for boot-up, e.g. is there a point in getting an 840 Pro rather than an 840 or would that be a waste of money? Stuff like that.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Why all the negatives towards OCZ and/or SandForce? Have you guys actually had bad experience with one of those first hand? I've worked with three SandForce drives, one OCZ, none of which have failed so far: Corsair Force 3 120GB, OCZ Agility 3 120GB, Kingston SV300S37A 120GB. I'm actually considering that Kingston for the HTPC build as it's quite cheap and a decent performer. For or against?

In my friends circle we've so far had two Vertex2's, one Vertex3 and one Vertex4 fail. The only other we've had failing was an Intel 320 with the "infamous" 8MB bug. Granted, this is in no way a large sample, but it is striking...

I was hoping to get a bit more technical advice on how to maximize boot-up time on the SSD/mainboard side. Like for example, is there a controller that's better at booting than the rest? Is there a mainboard model, manufacturer or chipset I should be looking at for short POST? Asynchronous vs. synchronous NAND for boot-up, e.g. is there a point in getting an 840 Pro rather than an 840 or would that be a waste of money? Stuff like that.

It should not matter that much. Even my HTPC boots in 5 seconds to the Win8 start screen. Just remember to disable any unused devices in the BIOS.

 

[zliqdedo]

@Insert_Nickname, That's some striking statistics for sure. I was never a fan of OCZ, no particular reason to seek out this brand so I guess I'm crossing it out of my list for good - one less choice to think about.

Could you tell me the SSD and motherboard of your HTPC build?

 

[Charlie98]

I have my old 64GB Agility3 in my HTPC, it works very well... I did babysit it when it was in my desktop, and now in my HTPC... I do NOT sleep or hibernate it.

You could actually get away with a 60-64GB SSD, my Win7 HTPC install is only at 20GB even with some extra diagnostic tools installed, but the 120-256 GB SSDs are somewhat faster, so if you are looking for absolute speed that's where you need to go.

Any reasonable premium SSD will give you the speed you want... you can overanalyze the drive features all you want, but in general use you are talking about a few seconds difference on boot between them on a clean Windows install... not enough to worry about.

 

[zliqdedo]

@Charlie98, Yeah, my friend's OCZ Agility 3 120GB that I installed a couple of years ago is still alive and kicking. Some people are having issues with OCZ though - no doubt about it, maybe not with the Agility 3. Anyway, there's little point in getting one now, or a ~60GB SSD for that matter - 120GB drives cost almost the same now.

I think I'll just get a Samsung 840 120GB (non-Pro) since I won't be writing to it a lot. I like the low power draw.

You never ever put it to sleep? Does that mean you've disabled sleep from the control panel? What are the negative effects of sleep on an SSD? Ultrabooks seem to heavily rely on this usage scenario for 'instant on'.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

840pro 128gb if budget isn't an issue

 

[zliqdedo]

Are you certain an 840 Pro would boot faster than a non-Pro? Does this mean that NAND type has a direct impact on boot-up time? I would spend extra, but only if there's a real benefit to Windows 8 start-up time (I'm running out of adjectives to use). I'm not really concerned with overall performance, especially write performance since I won't be doing a lot of that. As I mentioned in the original post - mostly web browsing and video playback software.

I can see that you're using 30nm Samsung system memory. Don't those run at 1600 with lower latency (CL11) and voltage (1.35V)? Apparently pretty good overclockers. Would you recommend? I'm asking because I'm considering this memory for my HTPC build, mostly for the low power draw, although I can't find them in stock anywhere.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Charlie98]

Are you certain an 840 Pro would boot faster than a non-Pro? Does this mean that NAND type has a direct impact on boot-up time? I would spend extra, but only if there's a real benefit to Windows 8 start-up time (I'm running out of adjectives to use). I'm not really concerned with overall performance, especially write performance since I won't be doing a lot of that. As I mentioned in the original post - mostly web browsing and video playback software.

I can see that you're using 30nm Samsung system memory. Don't those run at 1600 with lower latency (CL11) and voltage (1.35V)? Apparently pretty good overclockers. Would you recommend? I'm asking because I'm considering this memory for my HTPC build, mostly for the low power draw, although I can't find them in stock anywhere.

Thanks for your time.

In real-world use I think the non-Pro 840 would be fine, but very often you can find the 840Pro on sale. Don't discount the Plextor M5P, either. It's not mentioned as much as the Samsung, Intel or Crucial, but I think it is on par with the 840Pro. I was headed that way when the 840Pro came up on sale.

I have the Samsung RAM, it's good stuff. I have mine OC'ed to 1866 and the clocks knocked down @ 1.36v. Good luck finding it, now... TBH, for HTPC duty, any decent RAM will be fine, 1333 or 1600.

 

[Mfusick]

SSD is mandatory

 

[zliqdedo]

In real-world use I think the non-Pro 840 would be fine, but very often you can find the 840Pro on sale. Don't discount the Plextor M5P, either. It's not mentioned as much as the Samsung, Intel or Crucial, but I think it is on par with the 840Pro. I was headed that way when the 840Pro came up on sale.

I have the Samsung RAM, it's good stuff. I have mine OC'ed to 1866 and the clocks knocked down @ 1.36v. Good luck finding it, now... TBH, for HTPC duty, any decent RAM will be fine, 1333 or 1600.

The Plextor M5P is a nice drive for sure, but the relatively high power consumptions puts me off. 840 Pros go on sale, but the same can be said about 840s so I'd rather decide which one to get beforehand.

You're right - any decent RAM would do; the reason I'm attracted to Samsung is efficiency and low power draw. I was thinking of getting a 2x2GB kit (against for lower power draw compared to 2x4GB). I hope they come up here and there some time soon. I could always go for Corsair Vengeance LP 1.35V though.

I realize this power efficiency thing is becoming an obsession, but I might as well follow through... I just hope Intel release 35W i3 part with GT2 graphics, although I have a bad feeling about this. If not, at least a 45W i5 quad-core part (not really willing to pay premium for an i7) with GT2 graphics. Pretty please!

 

[zliqdedo]

SSD is mandatory

I hear you, brother. Already settled this. Thanks for mingling in.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I realize this power efficiency thing is becoming an obsession, but I might as well follow through... I just hope Intel release 35W i3 part with GT2 graphics, although I have a bad feeling about this. If not, at least a 45W i5 quad-core part (not really willing to pay premium for an i7) with GT2 graphics. Pretty please!

Looks like Intel has, at least partially, heard you. No word on availability, though...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di..._Core_i_Haswell_Chips_in_BGA_Form_Factor.html

If you don't mind a little tweaking, you should be able to get the normal 3225 working at 0.1v lower.

 

[Charlie98]

You're right - any decent RAM would do; the reason I'm attracted to Samsung is efficiency and low power draw. I was thinking of getting a 2x2GB kit (against for lower power draw compared to 2x4GB). I hope they come up here and there some time soon. I could always go for Corsair Vengeance LP 1.35V though.

Here's something odd... Newegg doesn't even list the Samsung desktop RAM any longer... all they have is server RAM, nor does MicroCenter (all they list is Samsung laptop RAM as a closeout.) I'm thinking you are stuck with Corsair or Crucial low volt RAM...

 

[zliqdedo]

Looks like Intel has, at least partially, heard you. No word on availability, though...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di..._Core_i_Haswell_Chips_in_BGA_Form_Factor.html

If you don't mind a little tweaking, you should be able to get the normal 3225 working at 0.1v lower.

Wow, I was hoping Intel would change their mind about not shipping GT3 in desktop parts; this is good news. Unfortunately, it's also bad news in a way - generally, I have no problem with BGA packaging and this is not the first time Intel is trying to flush it down our throats, however, the thing is Intel would never ship a truly feature rich motherboard, especially now that they've abandoned this business. Also, 65W is not bad at all, but I'd really like to see a 35W/45W GT3/e desktop part. Nonetheless, that i5-4670R is lookin' pretty sexy.

I don't mind a little tweaking, I also don't mind a lot of tweaking. That's a great idea - undervolting a standard voltage part, haven't thought about it. I think I'll wait for Haswell and if Intel don't release a GT2 low-voltage part (GT3 fingers crossed, but wishful thinking) I would either have to undervolt, or fight the battle with 10 EUs. sadpandaface

Here's something odd... Newegg doesn't even list the Samsung desktop RAM any longer... all they have is server RAM, nor does MicroCenter (all they list is Samsung laptop RAM as a closeout.) I'm thinking you are stuck with Corsair or Crucial low volt RAM...

I actually managed to find the old Newegg listing for the 30nm Samsung desktop RAM using google, but it says Out of Stock and Discontinued... ouch! Samsung's official website still list it though, I really hope they bring it back.


P.S. Since this thread is no longer just about storage, it can be moved to the HTPC section if that's possible; should have posted there to begin with. Apologies.

 

[Silenus]

I say just Samsung 840 (non Pro) and be done with it. 60GB or 120GB.

 

[SSBrain]

I say just Samsung 840 (non Pro) and be done with it. 60GB or 120GB.

There are no Samsung 840 (non-Pro) 60 GB models. They start from 120 GB ones. Maybe their TLC flash memory would have not warranted a sufficiently long (at least as long as the warranty period) write endurance with intense usage with such a low capacity.

This being said, I've got a 250 GB non-Pro 840 model and it exceeded my expectations. Despite hammering it with writes (2 TB in about 1 month of use), P/E cycle depletion is so slow that the drive will last at least 10 years with my relatively intense (for home usage) workload.

 

[johny12]

In my friends circle we've so far had two Vertex2's, one Vertex3 and one Vertex4 fail. The only other we've had failing was an Intel 320 with the "infamous" 8MB bug. Granted, this is in no way a large sample, but it is striking...



It should not matter that much. Even my HTPC boots in 5 seconds to the Win8 start screen. Just remember to disable any unused devices in the BIOS.

certainly striking! Vertex 4 has Indilinx controller & if this has also failed then I think there should be something wrong at your end. Vertex 3 SSDs are good ones & quite stable. Love them.

 

[zliqdedo]

I say just Samsung 840 (non Pro) and be done with it. 60GB or 120GB.

That's what I'll probably do, mostly because of the low power consumption and decent performance. As SSBrain said - no 60GB model.

There are no Samsung 840 (non-Pro) 60 GB models. They start from 120 GB ones. Maybe their TLC flash memory would have not warranted a sufficiently long (at least as long as the warranty period) write endurance with intense usage with such a low capacity.

This being said, I've got a 250 GB non-Pro 840 model and it exceeded my expectations. Despite hammering it with writes (2 TB in about 1 month of use), P/E cycle depletion is so slow that the drive will last at least 10 years with my relatively intense (for home usage) workload.

Great news - I shouldn't be concerned about longevity since I won't be doing a lot of writing. Thanks for sharing.

certainly striking! Vertex 4 has Indilinx controller & if this has also failed then I think there should be something wrong at your end. Vertex 3 SSDs are good ones & quite stable. Love them.

Whether it's bad luck or not, it seems OCZ are getting more negative feedback than the rest; I too haven't had problems with the OCZ but some people have.