SSD Caching Question

[nubki11a]

Hello!

I am about to buy my SSD, but I don't know whether I can use the Crucial M4 64GB for caching, next to using it for my complete OS and a game (maybe two, 7 GB average). Because what I would like to do, is put my OS on it (Win7 64-bit) and the game. And then use (a part of) the space left (around 30GB, reserving 27GB for the OS and 3~4GB for the game) for Caching.

Will this work? Or can I only use the Intel SSD Caching on a empty SSD?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[Diogenes2]

Not sure if what you suggest would really work very well, or if at all.

There would be very little if any, noticeablle difference in performance, if you just installed your OS and apps on a spindle drive and used the M4 for caching..

Two large spindle drives in RAID 1 for security, and the SSD cache is what I would recommend ..

 

[nubki11a]

I will be using an old 750GB HD for my new build, I will be adding the SSD for faster performance of the OS and Call of Duty 4. I would rather only use the SSD for my OS and CoD4 and no caching at all than only using it for caching.

Still, does anyone know for sure if I can use the SSD Caching in combination with installing my OS and CoD4 completely?

 

[GotNoRice]

No, what you ask is not possible via normal methods.

This is because when the cache is created, it re-partitions the SSD in the process.

The only workaround is to install a copy of windows temporarily on a mechanical drive and then enable caching on the SSD. (You have to choose between 20gb or the max capacity of the drive up to 64gb). Once the cache partition is created, you can reboot and install onto the remaining space on the SSD. Once you are back into windows again it should allow you to enable caching using the cache partition that was originally created within the temp windows install.

I will say though, that having your OS installed on a 30gb partition is probably not going to result in the best user experience in the long-run. The best solution really is to just install onto the mechanical drive and use the SSD only as cache. The vast majority of the files that constitute a typical OS install are NOT accessed on a regular basis and are just wasting space on an SSD.

 

[nubki11a]

Alright... So you're saying that I shouldn't put my OS on the SSD? Won't the loss in performance be really big? Also, the Windows start-up time, won't that be influenced? Anyway, do you think it would be of better use if I would put CoD4 on the SSD completely, then use the rest for caching? Thanks so far!

 

[GotNoRice]

Alright... So you're saying that I shouldn't put my OS on the SSD? Won't the loss in performance be really big? Also, the Windows start-up time, won't that be influenced? Anyway, do you think it would be of better use if I would put CoD4 on the SSD completely, then use the rest for caching? Thanks so far!

SRT will cache your OS and you will still benefit in terms of responsiveness and boot times, and the difference between that and running on the SSD directly will be tiny.

You could put COD4 directly on the SSD, the problem is that you only have 2 cache values to choose from when you setup SRT. You can set ~20GB as cache (and use the remaining space for whatever you want) or you can set 64GB as cache (which would take up your entire drive). Those are your only two options. The bigger the cache, the more stuff it can fit before it starts having to boot out old data. With 64GB as cache it's rare for stuff you use with any degree of regularity to not be cached. Even if you had CoD4 on your mechanical drive it would still end up cached by the SSD via SRT.

 

[nubki11a]

Wait, so you can only set 20GB or 60GB as cache? So what do people with 30GB SSD's do? Are you sure you can only use 20GB or 60GB?? :S

Anyway, what if I'd put CoD4 on the SSD and then just use the rest for caching?

 

[GotNoRice]

Wait, so you can only set 20GB or 60GB as cache? So what do people with 30GB SSD's do? Are you sure you can only use 20GB or 60GB?? :S

If your SSD is 64GB or smaller, using the 64GB option will simply use the entire SSD (however big it is).

Anyway, what if I'd put CoD4 on the SSD and then just use the rest for caching?

SRT re-partitions the drive when you setup caching so you would need to setup the cache using the 20GB option first, then initialize and format the remaining space, assign a drive letter, and then install CoD4 onto there.

 

[Diogenes2]

Good info GotNoRice .. Thanks for sharing..

 

[nubki11a]

Thanks for your help GotNoRice I just found this: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2172381 It looks pretty good, would this be a good thing to do? I would put CoD4 and Win 7 on the SSD and use the rest for caching.

 

[GotNoRice]

Thanks for your help GotNoRice I just found this: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2172381 It looks pretty good, would this be a good thing to do? I would put CoD4 and Win 7 on the SSD and use the rest for caching.

It would work, those are basically the same instructions I gave you regarding how to make it work earlier in this thread. The only issue being that you are limited to 20GB as cache instead of 64GB. Stuff will be pushed out of the cache significantly faster with only 20GB to work with, but if the main game you care about is on the SSD directly perhaps that doesn't matter? You would have approx 40GB to work with for your OS and CoD4, which IMO is really not enough space, but if you feel like you can make it work then go for it. Remember, even if it's "enough" space, you don't want to fill up all the space on your OS partition. Free space is a good thing.

It just seems like you're going through an aweful lot of effort to put stuff directly on your SSD, when it would benefit from the SSD anyway if you just used your SSD as cache.

 

[nubki11a]

That is because of this: http://www.techspot.com/review/395-asrock-z68-extreme4/page11.html SSD+HDD Caching appears to be quite a bit slower than using a SSD only. I am willing to go through the hassle of setting this thing up. On the partitioning, CoD4 is about 3GB (old games ftw ), if we take 30GB for the OS. That would leave me 27GB for caching. Would I be able to use 27GB for caching (if I would set it to the maximum)? Or only ~18GB?

If this doesn't work out, I should be able to put just CoD4 on the SSD right?

 

[GotNoRice]

That is because of this: http://www.techspot.com/review/395-asrock-z68-extreme4/page11.html SSD+HDD Caching appears to be quite a bit slower than using a SSD only.

SSD Caching is just that, caching. That means you have to access something at least once before it is loaded into cache for the first time. If you look at the Anandtech benchmarks you can see that performance continues to improve on subsequent accesses from cache until performance is virtually indistinguishable from a standalone SSD :
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4329/intel-z68-chipset-smart-response-technology-ssd-caching-review/4

On the partitioning, CoD4 is about 3GB (old games ftw ), if we take 30GB for the OS. That would leave me 27GB for caching. Would I be able to use 27GB for caching (if I would set it to the maximum)? Or only ~18GB?

No the only options you have are 20GB or 64GB. Keep in mind that if you follow the instructions, you essentially have to setup caching on the SSD before you install your OS onto the remaining space via the use of a temporary windows install. You can't setup caching on your boot SSD after you've already installed windows onto that SSD, unless the cache partition already exists from before.

If this doesn't work out, I should be able to put just CoD4 on the SSD right?

Yeah.

 

[nubki11a]

Alright. Though I would really like to put just CoD4 on the SSD and use the rest for caching. Do you know how I could do this? Just the normal way but skipping the steps that have to do with the OS install? As CoD4 is only 3GB, it wouldn't make any sense to just put CoD4 on it and then use 18GB for SRT. I would have 49GB of wasted space. Do you have an idea how I could still use CoD4 on my SSD and use the rest for caching?

 

[MustangSVT]

im waiting for the ssd caching hating guy to pop in any minute now

but I say just save up for 128gb ssd. I have 64gb M4 and although its all great, I wished I would have waited juuuust a bit more for 128.

but with OS, main work programs, and SC2 (13gb?!!) and Skyrim and rest on 1tb hdd, it is working out fine.

 

[LokutusofBorg]

With a quality 64GB SSD there is no reason to go with SRT. If it was smaller than that, or wasn't a tier 1 SSD then I would say go with SRT. But a 64GB M4 for OS/Apps and any new-ish 7200RPM HDD and you'll be just fine.

I run all my games off my 1TB and they run great. If you want to speed up your game, you can just put it on the SSD as you've mentioned. You haven't said what else is on your HDD that you are so determined to have SRT for, but I can't think of anything that would be worth limiting your OS/Apps drive like that.

 

[Chaoticlusts]

There is definitely a reason to go cache if your a big gamer..

Here's an old thread for info on the howto
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2172381

Copying a game your playing onto your SSD then playing it is fine if your gaming style lends itself towards playing one game regularly till your done with it then moving onto another. However I tend to open my steam library and rummage for something I feel like playing at the time and it jumps all over the place, given the drive I have cached has 2TB of data *used* and games+mods account for a lot of that copying each game over as I feel like playing it isn't exactly viable. For people who spend hundreds of hours playing COD or Battlefield then yeah pure SSD makes sense. For those of us with hundreds of games in our steam library who jump around a bit caching is a godsend

I'm not sure about splitting a 64GB drive though.. That really does seem to be pushing it from a space perspective and as others pointed out (unless a driver update has changed this since my install) you can't just pick a number for cache so it would have to be 20GB leaving 44GB for OS+overhead for garbage cleanup etc...that really seems to be cutting it fine to me..

Is there anyway you could buy a 128GB drive or even 2x64's? (2x64 would be better for this setup and are more affordable than they were when I was looking at this)

*edit* oh and anyone who says there's not much difference when gaming either hasn't tried it or is full of it the loading time change is fantastic and given most of the data used when playing a game is reused over and over (textures etc) it lends itself rather well to caching, that 12GB game your playing chances are when you sit for an 5 hour session you won't see several GB worth of it's contents so they'll never get cached (or they'll come up once like a cutscene and the cache *should* be smart enough to ignore one off data) so that 64GB/20GB goes a lot further than people think when it comes to how many games stay stored

 

[GotNoRice]

If you want to speed up your game, you can just put it on the SSD as you've mentioned.

At this point in time most people get their games from download services such as steam. There are no built-in provisions within these services that allow you to install individual games away from the main folder, so at that point you're talking about ghetto hacks and workarounds. One of the beauties of SRT is that it just works. No shuffling games around or worrying about what is installed where.

Also don't discount the performance decrease that occurs if you run your drive at or near full capacity - which certainly would be an issue trying to cram any significant amount of data on a tiny 64GB SSD.

 

[Denithor]

If you either split partition an SSD (20/64GB for cache and remainder for OS/etc) or use two SSDs (64GB for cache and second 64GB for OS/etc) won't you wind up caching a lot of data that's already on an SSD? Because it will pull the OS files & etc from the boot drive/partition onto the cache drive/partition...

 

[Diogenes2]

The SRT cache is for a separate spindle drive.. It won't cache the OS and apps installed on an OS partitition, or a seperate SSD unless you designate the other SSD as the drive you want to cache; and there would be no point in doing that ..

 

[nubki11a]

Firstly, thanks for all your replies!

GotNoRice, to be honest I don't really play a lot of different games. So moving stuff around won't be a problem, I also don't really use Steam. The only apps that I would like fast loading on are Call of Duty 4 (3GB) and Windows (30GB?).

Chaoticlusts, I don't think I can afford a 128GB SSD, don't know if it will be completely worth it anyway because as I just wrote, I would only like fast loading on CoD4 and Windows.

LokutusofBorg, the HD that I will be using it with will be from my old build. It is a 750GB made by Samsung, I searched it on Newegg and the only result they came up with was this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...amsung%20750GB It is a laptop drive, so I don't know whether they would put that in a desktop 'gaming' PC (it was pre-built, just bought my old PC from a store fully put together etc.).

So what do you guys suggest? I will be buying a 64GB SSD, will be using it for 1 game (3GB) and Windows (~25-30GB?). If I would use the 18GB option for SRT caching and use the rest of the space for Windows and one or two games? Any suggestions?

 

[Denithor]

The SRT cache is for a separate spindle drive.. It won't cache the OS and apps installed on an OS partitition, or a seperate SSD unless you designate the other SSD as the drive you want to cache; and there would be no point in doing that ..

So you designate the drive the SSD is going to cache for? That's pretty sweet then, I can see how that would work nicely. Thanks!

 

[BonzaiDuck]

The SRT cache is for a separate spindle drive.. It won't cache the OS and apps installed on an OS partitition, or a seperate SSD unless you designate the other SSD as the drive you want to cache; and there would be no point in doing that ..

I'll still stand by my conclusion that ISRT-caching is the best bang for the buck if you have a motherboard that supports it. If you have so many bucks that you don't care about the bang, then go for it, but I doubt you'll notice the difference in throughput -- even if you RAID0 a couple SSDs (with the potential for roughly twice the throughput).

It doesn't make as much sense to get an SATA-II SSD for caching on a board that supports SATA-III, although the benchies are available to show that it's an improvement.

Also, look at the sequential write benchmark or spec for the M4 SATA-III SSD. About 95 MB/s. That's not just lackluster. It's terrible.

For ISRT, I'd recommend the Patriot Pyro 60GB SATA-III SSD. The write spec is right up there with the read spec -- which is about 520 MB/s.

 

[nubki11a]

Low writing speed isn't really an issue for me, as it's only when you're installing stuff right? Well I'll probably be trying to reduce writes to the SSD anyway. Because that's supposed to boost its life.


So what do you guys suggest? I will be buying a 64GB SSD, will be using it for 1 game (3GB) and Windows (~25-30GB?). If I would use the 18GB option for SRT caching and use the rest of the space for Windows and one or two games? Any suggestions?

 

[Diogenes2]

For OS and 1 game, 64gb should be plenty as stand alone drive..
I don't know what you would have to gain by using SRT caching..