Split routine - lower body day

[IHateMyJob2004]

Currently doing a 3 day split. Day 1 is upper body. Day 2 is lowe body. Day 3 is upper body stabalizer/target exercises. The occasional Day 4 routine that I might start would be lower effort lower body. Day 4 does not currently exist but I want it to.

To my question .....
My currentl lower body routine is:
Squat
Deadlift
Calf Raise (on machine)
Leg extension

This routine takes 45 minutes. I wouldn't mind adding 1-2 more exercises.

I was thinking about doing lunges (not sure which variation) along with something for halmstrings. Thinking of doing dumbbell side lunges:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaximus/DBSideLunge.html

For hammys I was thinking about a leg curl variation using my lat pull down tower (has lower pully section for curls that can be used for leg curls. At my friends house, we could just do leg curls.

Thoughts?

 

[surfsatwerk]

dump the calf raise and leg extension and spend more time with squat and deadlift. Leg raises would be good assistance, don't use those stupid straps do them from a dead hang.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...raining_performance/dispelling_the_glute_myth

This article is a great resource of butt stuff, anything it suggests is a million times better than wasting effort on calf or leg ext.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

5x5 squats and 5x5 deads at workout weight. You advise more?

Definitely not dumping calf exercises. I admit that I don't care for the leg extension but I am not the only one doing the routine. Having said that, I/we are keeping both of those.

 

[surfsatwerk]

5x5 squats and 5x5 deads at workout weight. You advise more?

Definitely not dumping calf exercises. I admit that I don't care for the leg extension but I am not the only one doing the routine. Having said that, I/we are keeping both of those.

To each their own, but whatever your goals are they would be better served by other exercises. It's your workout. if you want to do more squats, do more squats. There is never a good reason for calf raises. I suggested the leg raises because I like to balance back work with ab work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ysNevIv0w

Look at dem sexy abs, rawr.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

The reason for the calf raises is that nothing else hits them. They need a dedicated exercise.

Illmread up on leg raises.

 

[surfsatwerk]

The reason for the calf raises is that nothing else hits them. They need a dedicated exercise.

Illmread up on leg raises.

That's simply not true.

Edit: Deadlift, squat, standing press, olympic lifts, etc... If your feet are on the floor and you butt isn't sitting on something you are working your calves.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

That's simply not true.

Edit: Deadlift, squat, standing press, olympic lifts, etc... If your feet are on the floor and you butt isn't sitting on something you are working your calves.

Want big calves? You do calf raises and toe raises.

Deadlift does not do calves unless your form is bad.

Squats might, but only as stabalizers.

Olympic lifts, probably has more impact on the calves.

have you done anything on calf machines? Done Toe rasies? I don't see how anyone that has done these can think the workout you get from macros has anywhere near the imapct on calves as toe rases and the calf machine.

 

[Tencntraze]

I don't see the problem with toe raises or the like either. As long as the macro exercises are being done, there's really no harm in adding this additional isolation work.

Leg extensions on the other hand I'm not as comfortable with, particularly because there's no real-world application for this movement, not to mention that they put additional stress on the knees (more than squats, per a Mayo clinic study...no link handy)

 

[blackdogdeek]

apologies in advance for my anecdotal evidence for the off-topic discussion in this thread. my wife said to me this past weekend: "your calves are getting bigger".

here is a list of some of the exercises i perform:

squat (front/back/overhead), deadlift, thruster, clean (power/squat/hang power/hang squat), snatch (power/squat/balance), jerk (split/push), press (strict/push), clean and jerk, sumo deadlift high pull, double under, burpee, run, row, kettlebell swing, wallball.

i NEVER do targeted or isolation exercises. i'm not trying to condemn them but just trying to show that i don't think they're necessary to get results.

 

[surfsatwerk]

]Want big calves? You do calf raises and toe raises.[/B]

Deadlift does not do calves unless your form is bad.

Squats might, but only as stabalizers.

Olympic lifts, probably has more impact on the calves.

have you done anything on calf machines? Done Toe rasies? I don't see how anyone that has done these can think the workout you get from macros has anywhere near the imapct on calves as toe rases and the calf machine.

There is a whole mess of arguments out there for and against isolation work. In my experience for such a short, 45 minute, workout I don't see isolation work of any kind being time well spent.

 

[Sid59]

i had to separate SL5x5 because DL and Squats, were killing me.

A -
Main - Deadlifts, weighted chinups, overhead press
Auxiliary work - shrugs and calves

B -
Main - Bench, weighed dips, incline bench
Auxiliary work - rows, curls, abs

C -
Main - Squats, leg press
Auxiliary work - tricep and weighted back extension

2 days min rest between squat and DL days.

 

[Pantlegz]

5x5 squats and 5x5 deads at workout weight. You advise more?

Definitely not dumping calf exercises. I admit that I don't care for the leg extension but I am not the only one doing the routine. Having said that, I/we are keeping both of those.

I started doing Bulgarian Split Squats and they're awesome, or at least I think so, for unilateral quad work. (seated) Box jumps are a good addition for explosiveness. I've started doing weighted step ups, just make sure the leg on the box is the only one pushing, stand on your toes on the other foot to make sure you don't push off with it. GHR is good for posterior chain. Good mornings too. I'm sure I'm forgetting something...

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Pantzlegz,

I am thinking about adding Good Mornings to Day 2 for extra hammy work.


I am planning on doing a day 4 which will be mostly lower body. Day 4 is a ways off though. I might incorporate some of your suggestions.

Is this the bulgarian split squat you speak of?
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/DBSingleLegSplitSquat.html

 

[Pantlegz]

Is this the bulgarian split squat you speak of?
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/DBSingleLegSplitSquat.html

Yes, I do them with a barbell though.

 

[repoman0]

How is this split that you're doing working compared to regular stronglifts? I'm starting to find that my squats are suffering when I do them every two days and think I'd be able to put more weight on more often if I cut back on frequency a bit. I went from 200 to 210 in two workouts when I had to miss a workout in the middle of each of those days, but found the same 210 much harder two days later and actually missed the very last rep. Why did you decide to change it up?

Also could you post what you're doing each day?

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

All,
I read up more on doing isolation exercises. The bodybuilding.com forums is riddled with these discussions and they appear near the top (usually at the top) in Google searched.

There is no reason to do isolations on a muscle that is getting hit hard by macros. If you find that an area is not being hit hard in your routine though, there is nothing wrong with doing an isolation exercise.


blackdog,
Some of the exercises you do will hit calves pretty good. Running itself helps. But power cleans in particular would hit calves up pretty good.

I intend on doing power cleans soon. If they hit the calves like I think they would, I'd probably stop isolating calves.


repo,
I'll post an update of what I'm doing post cage. It's going to be interesting. I'm lifitng with a friend so we basically have a weekly A-B-C routine. But We are switching locations each day. So it is really going to be an A1-B1-C1-A2-B2-C2 routine. Where the As, Bs and Cs will be similar but have some exercises swapped out.

Currently (from what I remember):
A:
bench press (5x5)
close grip bench press (3x10)
upright row (5x5+)
face pull (3x10+)
barbell curl (3-5x10)
sit up machine (3-5x10)


B:
squats
deads
leg extension
calf machine

C:
concentration curls
military press (or standing overhead press)
lat pull down
close grip incline
incline dumbbell press

This is not exactly it but it is close. I'm going to keep a paper notebook to track this info soon.

yes, I was doing starting strength. I read up on what it takes to consider yourself an intermediate weight lifter and I think I am 90%+ there. I have good form. I have hit certain levels of strength (1RM - 220 pound bench, 320 dead, etc). 12-15 months doing stronglifts. It's time to move on for me. Now, I still do alot of the stronglifts exercises. All of them actually. Doing squats every other day with heavy weights just doesn't cut it anymore. I need more recovery time to get gains. If you are a new lifter (a novice), you will have plenty of time to learn and get better/stronger. You'll know when it is time to move to an intermediate routine. To progress in bench press, you will eventually need to do accessory acercises. lat pulldowns and shoulder mobility/strengthining work, etc. Shoulder mobility exercises helped me up my bench press when I stalled. I read about them and shockingly what the article said was true:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/likness22.htm

When you start stalling, do what that article says to do!
Enough for now .... hockey game is on

 

[Pantlegz]

All,
I read up more on doing isolation exercises. The bodybuilding.com forums is riddled with these discussions and they appear near the top (usually at the top) in Google searched.

There is no reason to do isolations on a muscle that is getting hit hard by macros. If you find that an area is not being hit hard in your routine though, there is nothing wrong with doing an isolation exercise.

Bodybuilding isn't weight lifting though. I know they have huge forum and lots of sub categories.

I do isolation exercises as accessory work for weak parts of my compound lifts. Or for better control/explosiveness/flexibility/whatever. Just because my quads are hit squatting doesn't mean they're both being hit equally, there may be an imbalance(which there is for me) or maybe I'm not being as explosive as I want to be. Rather than trying to correct these issues by just squatting and trying to fix it with one movement, I've worked in both split squats and box jumps so I don't have to deload but I'm still giving my weaknesses extra attention as needed. I do similar work for both deadlift and bench press. As well as, slowly, adding in Oly lifts for speed and coordination of the power that I create.

warming up properly helps a lot, I've done some hip mobilization/warm ups before I squat and I've noticed a huge difference. The issue is warming up properly for the workout you're about to do. And of course stretching afterwards.

Don't take anything I've said to heart I'm still learning too, I think everyone is. This is just what works for me and a little bit of the idea behind it. Some of it comes from JTS(Juggernaut Training System) - pm me for the pdf if you want it and some from Westside Barbell - google "WS4SB3" and it should be a pdf near the top, you'll know when you've found it.

 

[blackdogdeek]

just out of curiosity, how long do your workouts take?

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

just out of curiosity, how long do your workouts take?

The new routine I do takes about an hour each day. The last B day was 45 minutes.

We don't do one exercise then the next. And we each do different exercises so we don't get in eachother's way.

To save time, we do two exercises at the same time. We'll take bench press and lat pull down that work different muscle groups. And Do:
Bench press
Lat pull down
(rest a minute or so)
Bench press
Lat pull down
(rest a minute or so)
Bench press
Lat pull down
(rest a minute or so)
Bench press
Lat pull down
(rest a minute or so)
Bench press
Lat pull down

As one person is doing the bench/lat split the other person is doing some other split. Maybe curls and tricep press.


But you can do things this way on your own to save time.

it saves tons of time. Also hits you up for cardio morethan it would otherwise.

 

[Pantlegz]

You should be using your lats when you bench press, not much but when you de-rack the weight it should be mostly with just your lats.

 

[Zivic]

drop the leg extensions... only puts unneeded stress on your knees.

IMHO, Add:
Sled Leg press
stiff leg dead lift

that said, I already think doing deads and squats on the same day is over doing it if you are lifting heavy. Adding more legitimate lifts will add to the potential of overtraining

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

A few reasonable concerns. I agree with them. With bench, yes the lats are supposed to support the weight as it touches the bench (squeeze the back).

I think we are going to stick with this routine for 12-24 months. At that point, I might change things.