Spin Off: AT's Testing Methods & Uber Mode

[smithkt]

Oh, well yeah I would rather see both modes in any given review for comparison.
I would also like to see all this being able to be done via software instead of having to physically open my case and flipping the AUSUM switch. Why cant they do this with software? I understand there are two BIOS but still.

Unless I have completely misunderstood everything about this new mode of operations, you can do this in software. The only difference is supposed to be the default fan speed cap.

Quiet was 40% (now a fixed speed)
Uber was 55% (now a fixed speed)

Open up CCC, change the power tune setting for fan speed and you now have uber mode without flipping a switch.

 

[Keysplayr]

Unless I have completely misunderstood everything about this new mode of operations, you can do this in software. The only difference is supposed to be the default fan speed cap.

Quiet was 40% (now a fixed speed)
Uber was 55% (now a fixed speed)

Open up CCC, change the power tune setting for fan speed and you now have uber mode without flipping a switch.

Yeah, pretty much. Don't even need the switch.

 

[Vesku]

I think there is a high likelihood we will see a fully warrantied software button "performance" mode from both AMD and Nvidia next generation. So best figure out how to deal with that now. Perhaps an expansion of review section regarding sound profiles is in order, something involving Sones perhaps instead of Decibels, but whatever changes I hope to not see another tirade as conclusion.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Unless I have completely misunderstood everything about this new mode of operations, you can do this in software. The only difference is supposed to be the default fan speed cap.

Quiet was 40% (now a fixed speed)
Uber was 55% (now a fixed speed)

Open up CCC, change the power tune setting for fan speed and you now have uber mode without flipping a switch.

To unlock the overdrive menu there is some talk of doing this at your own risk and voiding warranty and what not.

Flipping the switch is protected by warranty.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Yeah, pretty much. Don't even need the switch.

The switch is useful for people playing with bios settings - there is always a way out.

 

[SiliconWars]

To unlock the overdrive menu there is some talk of doing this at your own risk and voiding warranty and what not.

Flipping the switch is protected by warranty.

Nope, just overclocking. http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/CCCFAQ.aspx

What are the optimal over-clocking settings for game play using AMD OverDrive™?
Although there is an AMD OverDrive™ option in the AMD Catalyst Control Center, AMD does not provide support or assistance with regardsto changes to the default settings. There are various how-to guides available on the web that are not endorsed by AMD; however, please note that over-clocking will void the warranty.

 

[Keysplayr]

The switch is useful for people playing with bios settings - there is always a way out.

Well like all things, I'm sure it will be useful to someone, somehow.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

The switch is useful for people playing with bios settings - there is always a way out.

I like the switch on my cards, but I don't think that's the issue!

 

[Teizo]

Far from it! If we want subjective data on a card, hell, go to manufacturers slides, it doesn't get more subjective (biased) then that. Reviewers are here to show us real world data. Without any backstabbing, and crippling competition, and that is what is going to happen here. One product will be shown in not the best possible way, to say the least.

Just remember, no reviewer is obliged to make you happy with his opinion on a product. A reviewers opinion is what people want and what makes him different than others reviewers. If reviewers didn't have opinions, every review would be the same and there would be no reason to read the multiple reviews from all the website out there.

Do you like [H]'s reviews? Is their saying "despite the fact that the 770 has higher fps than the 280X, the 280X delivers better gaming performance in BF4 Online Beta" (paraphrased) acceptable to you? I realize [H] is not on trial here, but if we are going to be talking about consistency, let's make sure those complaining are consistent in their complaining as well.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Nope, just overclocking. http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/CCCFAQ.aspx

The full text is:

WARNING: AMD processors are intended to be operated only within their associated specifications and factory settings. Operating your AMD processor outside of official AMD specifications or outside of factory settings, including but not limited to the conducting of overclocking (including use of this overclocking software, even if such software has been directly or indirectly provided by AMD or otherwise affiliated in any way with AMD), may damage your processor and/or lead to other problems, including but not limited to, damage to your system components (including your motherboard and components thereon (e.g. memory)), system instabilities (e.g. data loss and corrupted images), reduction in system performance, shortened processor, system component and/or system life and in extreme cases, total system failure. AMD does not provide support or service for issues or damages related to use of an AMD processor outside of official AMD specifications or outside of factory settings. You may also not receive support or service from your board or system manufacturer. Please make sure you have saved all important data before using this overclocking software. DAMAGES CAUSED BY USE OF YOUR AMD PROCESSOR OUTSIDE OF OFFICIAL AMD SPECIFICATIONS OR OUTSIDE OF FACTORY SETTINGS ARE NOT COVERED UNDER ANY AMD PRODUCT WARRANTY AND MAY NOT BE COVERED BY YOUR BOARD OR SYSTEM MANUFACTURER’S WARRANTY.
WARNING: The software that has been directly or indirectly provided by AMD or an entity otherwise affiliated with AMD may disable or alter: (1) software including features and functions in the operating system, drivers and applications, and other system settings; and (2) system services. WHEN THE MATERIALS ARE USED TO DISABLE OR ALTER THESE ITEMS IN WHOLE OR PART, YOU MAY EXPERIENCE (A) INCREASED RISKS THAT CERTAIN SECURITY FUNCTIONS DO NOT FUNCTION THEREBY EXPOSING YOUR COMPUTER SYSTEM TO POTENTIAL SECURITY THREATS INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, HARM FROM VIRUSES, WORMS AND OTHER HARMFUL SOFTWARE; (B) PERFORMANCE AND INTEROPERABILITY ISSUES THAT MAY ADVERSELY AFFECT YOUR EXPERIENCE AND THE STABILITY OF YOUR COMPUTING SYSTEM; AND (C) OTHER EXPERIENCES RESULTING IN ADVERSE EFFECTS, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED, TO DATA CORRUPTION OR LOSS.

Although I agree that changing the fan speed to 55% wont void warranty.

 

[Leadbox]

Do you like [H]'s reviews? Is their saying "despite the fact that the 770 has higher fps than the 280X, the 280X delivers better gaming performance in BF4 Online Beta" (paraphrased) acceptable to you? I realize [H] is not on trial here, but if we are going to be talking about consistency, let's make sure those complaining are consistent in their complaining as well.

Ahh, the good old "slower but smoother" mantra comes to mind

 

[GaiaHunter]

Ahh, the good old "slower but smoother" mantra comes to mind

Yeah, [H] kept saying that CF wasn't as smooth as SLI even though CF frames were the same or higher.

Also [H] explains.

Neither NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 nor the AMD Radeon R9 280X felt playable at 2560x1600 with 4X MSAA enabled. While the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 outperformed the AMD R9 280X in terms of raw frame rates by an average of 9.5FPS over the course of 5 minutes, the overall gameplay feel of the NVIDIA offering was very inconsistent compared to the AMD offering which felt far more fluid.

For example, when playing with the GTX 770, when there was not much action happening on the screen and there was not a lot of fast motion on the screen, gameplay was fluid and acceptable. However, once we got into firefights and explosions, we would experience significant lag and frame rate dips that made it a very unplayable experience. On the AMD R9 280X side, the overall gameplay felt sluggish and less responsive than we would have liked, however, it did not have the significant lag issues in heavy action. This is a case of the framerate showing one thing, but the actual feel and fluidity of the game being better on one card, despite the framerate. The card with the superior feel in this case, was the R9 280X.

They didn't discard the FPS values though.

It is a Beta so something funny going with the drivers is not unusual.

 

[wand3r3r]

Just remember, no reviewer is obliged to make you happy with his opinion on a product. A reviewers opinion is what people want and what makes him different than others reviewers. If reviewers didn't have opinions, every review would be the same and there would be no reason to read the multiple reviews from all the website out there.

Do you like [H]'s reviews? Is their saying "despite the fact that the 770 has higher fps than the 280X, the 280X delivers better gaming performance in BF4 Online Beta" (paraphrased) acceptable to you? I realize [H] is not on trial here, but if we are going to be talking about consistency, let's make sure those complaining are consistent in their complaining as well.

Pulling one sentence out of context from a review in an attempt to show "bias" is pretty weak for demonstrating said bias. I'd say it says more about the attempt to claim bias than for the actual basis.

However, in reality, some of the slowdowns that we experienced on the GTX 770 (that we did not feel on the R9 280X) felt like the issue was related to an insufficient amount of video memory. More testing will be needed to flesh this out more, as the Beta also does not have the full graphics settings included in it. The full-version game may be more graphically intense, have more art assets, and have better image quality putting a greater demand on VRAM and performance.

After logging hours of play time in Battlefield 4 Beta using both the Radeon R9 280X and GeForce GTX 770, the AMD Radeon R9 280X appears to deliver a far superior gaming experience compared to the NVIDIA GeForce 770 GTX no matter what the framerate graphs show. Since the game is so new, there might be a significant amount of performance that could be unlocked with driver updates from both NVIDIA and AMD that could quickly change the observations that we have today. The full-version game could also change this game in big ways, as all the graphics options come into play.

Clearly they felt that the 280x was smoother and they offered the subjective opinion it might be due to the lack of RAM. They also said more investigation and data is needed, both signs of an objective analysis with subjective input on their experience.

What struck you as so strange with it?

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/10/10/battlefield_4_beta_performance_preview/4

 

[krumme]

The difference between H and AT testing methology is that H tries to mirror user behavior and experience. Therefore they run the 290 cards at 55%, and even recommends setting it higher.

What is the goal of Ryans review?

According to Anand they have to take care how the manufactures behave in the future. Is it therefore we see equilizing with noise?

Anand say he have 17 years experience running the site. Yes, and many of us have more or less read the articles since then. And as it have been said before we notice the Intel, NV and Apple flavour. We live happily with it, because there is so much more good. We understand it. I wouldnt say its going the right way though , on the contrary unfortunately it seems from here. But anyway there is eg. so much more quality in the articles than just the benchmarking.

We can talk all kind of technical methology here. I am sure the Anand team can find the right solutions. The omitting of 55% fan setting is just crazy, and the reviews was bended more than usual. And the noise rant was historical - even for Ryan.

Today i went to read the 290 review with the purpose of comparing it to the 290x - I somehow forgot it is not possible. The 290x is run at 40% or what?? - i guess so but i read fast - where can i read the 290x is at 40% in the review?

Perhaps its why half this forum walks around saying its 97% the same speed as 290x. lol.

 

[Z15CAM]

Anand say he have 17 years experience running the site.

You can say 20 years as I've been an avid Anand Fan since 1995. Believe my nick was MosFet back then - LOL

I can't say if it was any more difficult to review back then but I can say it was much easier to OC when all you had to do was increase the Video Cards Voltage in BIOS use SoftWare which hacked the Cards BIOS to increase either the GPU or Memory Frequencies - Nothing was locked out back then. Whether it was due too much Mhz's, Voltage or insufficient cooling, you could always tell when you maxed the card - It's definitely not like that today.

I do recall a few TNT2's kinda getting rather Flaming Hot

 

[Teizo]

Pulling one sentence out of context from a review in an attempt to show "bias" is pretty weak for demonstrating said bias. I'd say it says more about the attempt to claim bias than for the actual basis.



Clearly they felt that the 280x was smoother and they offered the subjective opinion it might be due to the lack of RAM. They also said more investigation and data is needed, both signs of an objective analysis with subjective input on their experience.

What struck you as so strange with it?

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/10/10/battlefield_4_beta_performance_preview/4

Well, what if Ryan said that while the 290 gives great gaming fps performance, the overall gaming experience was sullied due to the noise of the fan...then went into an objective explanation as to why the fan revved up as high as it did?

An opinion is an opinion, no matter how you may want to spin it in favor of said argument. If you don't like opinions here, then don't like opinions anywhere. And, for the fact of the matter...I don't have a problem with [H] given their opinion on the BF4 Open Beta performance between the two cards. You pretty much confirmed, whether knowingly or unknowingly, why opinions matter and why they are given and why they are not dismissed when they come from reputable review sites.

 

[mak360]

Not flipping the switch was of no benefit to anybody, but Nvidia alone. Am still having a hard time believing the reasons given. I mean; who would test a card on slow settings Vs a 780Ti?

Its a bit like tripping someone up in a race.

Edit: Forgot to shake my head (Shakes head slowly in disbelief)

 

[Vesku]

Well, what if Ryan said that while the 290 gives great gaming fps performance, the overall gaming experience was sullied due to the noise of the fan...then went into an objective explanation as to why the fan revved up as high as it did?

That is what I was expecting* after reading the rest of the review but I almost did a double take when I got to the "Final Words" and instead of that there was a veritable rant on the noise.

*Was roughly 50/50 on whether Ryan would devout a paragraph to the perf/$ side of the 290, prior to reaching the "Final Words" but based on the "noise equalization" stuff I was 100% certain noise would come up.

 

[Janooo]

Not flipping the switch was of no benefit to anybody, but Nvidia alone. Am still having a hard time believing the reasons given. I mean; who would test a card on slow settings Vs a 780Ti?

Its a bit like tripping someone up in a race.

Edit: Forgot to shake my head (Shakes head slowly in disbelief)

The final words page of Ti review is a deception and a lie!
I hope AT will apologize for that.

 

[Erenhardt]

Just remember, no reviewer is obliged to make you happy with his opinion on a product. A reviewers opinion is what people want and what makes him different than others reviewers. If reviewers didn't have opinions, every review would be the same and there would be no reason to read the multiple reviews from all the website out there.

I am sorry for not highlighting whole part of your post I was referring to:

They are supposed to, and their opinions are important. Otherwise AMD or Nvidia would have no use for them and would just put the scores up on their website and let that be it.

I was referring to this whole part, rather than only first sentence.
We don't need opinions of a product that are forced on a reviewer by manufacturer. This applies not only to opinion of said product from the manufacturer that tries to influence reviewer. The more dramatic situation where reviewer is pressed by manufacturer to form negative opinion of their competitors products is even worst!

I think that reviewer should express his opinion, but it should not be affected by neither side. I don't want reviewer to read me marketing slides. And what seems to happened is reviewers picking up nvidia marketing in their reviews.

I don't know how nvidia convinced reviewers to show only quiet mode of 290X. Or what, and why tries to put any pressure on competitors reviews. That is why I would like if backstage action would be available to interested readers.

Now, leaving 290x with only one (slower) setting, reviewers will not show full picture. Or just like in 780Ti, will be ***** (far from truth) when forming their opinions with only half of data in consideration.

 

[Erenhardt]

Reviewer's opinion should NOT be decisive to include/exclude features of the product. I don't care if reviewer doesn't like blended carrot. The food processor he is reviewing have a feature of making carrot juice and it should be included in the review.

Reviewer can't pretend something is not there, just because he didn't like it. And if third party is forcing some kind of stance on him, should he do exact opposite.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Well, what if Ryan said that while the 290 gives great gaming fps performance, the overall gaming experience was sullied due to the noise of the fan...then went into an objective explanation as to why the fan revved up as high as it did?

An opinion is an opinion, no matter how you may want to spin it in favor of said argument. If you don't like opinions here, then don't like opinions anywhere. And, for the fact of the matter...I don't have a problem with [H] given their opinion on the BF4 Open Beta performance between the two cards. You pretty much confirmed, whether knowingly or unknowingly, why opinions matter and why they are given and why they are not dismissed when they come from reputable review sites.

Some people agreed that the 290 was too loud and other disagreed.

All the information was there. The first five comments of the 290 review (at the release time) were people ignoring the noise issue and commenting on the great price/performance.

That is fine - maybe there are people that are as concerned or more about noise than Ryan and for them his subjective opinion aligns.

What made Ryan review come under fire was the difference of tone to the GTX 480 and even GTX 580 and of course the lack of uber numbers for the 290X.

Ryan indicated that the 290 is louder than the GTX 480 but I've seen numbers that would say otherwise.

 

[AtenRa]

Our Ferrari F12 Berlinetta Review will only be made using the Wet Setup. Because turning the nob to the Race setup will rev the engine up to 10k rpm producing high decibels and we dont like to drive the car being that loud.
It is the first Ferrari we will not recommend because of high decibels produced by the 6262cc V12 engine.

Sorry if that was OT

 

[Janooo]

Our Ferrari F12 Berlinetta Review will only be made using the Wet Setup. Because turning the nob to the Race setup will rev the engine up to 10k rpm producing high decibels and we dont like to drive the car with that high sound.
It is the first Ferrari we will not recommend because of high decibels produced by the 6262cc V12 engine.






Sorry if that was OT

Compare this Ferrari to Nissan GTR.
The reviewer refuses to push GTR Launch button because it will be faster than Ferrari.

 

[rgallant]

I'm sure if reviewers had to pay for these gaming cards out of their own pay ,
a $400.00 gaming vid.card vs a $700.00 gaming card how they games would be more important than noise ,knowing better coolers are on the way for the $400.00 card.