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Spidey's trip to France

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Originally posted by: bsobel
19.6 tax on everything.

Yea, but no income tax. I'd trade the 45% I'm paying now for 19.6 on absolutely everything in a heartbeat (short of moving to the EU 😉)

Write-offs and tax-shelters, my friend! That will dramatically reduce your overall income and drop your tax bracket. Specifically, take a look at oil and natural gas exploration and drilling. That sector has an 85%+ write-off value and is looked on very favorably by our government.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: spidey07
Call it what you will but here's what I noticed.

Geez, super expensive. I mean 6 euros for a beer is just a little much.

But what got me is the 19.6 tax on everything. Eating at a dive for two with a half carafe of wine (3.5 euro, wine is pretty dang cheap there) was 28 euro. At 1.3 USD per euro that was a pretty pricey lunch.

I guess my point is, watch out what kind of socialism you want (it applies to the US with our problems with social security/health care/welfare, etc). Was it expensive because of the decline in the dollar vs. the euro? I don't think so.

Oh, it was fun driving through the country side in streets that reminded me of the car chase scene from "Ronin".

Why does this go in P&N? Mainly I wanted to make a point of just how expensive stuff was in france and just how high the taxes were and hopefully one can draw a line between socialism and taxes. Some want the government to take care of everything (socialism) others prefer the other end of the spectrum.

They also earn a lot less than we do.

They also work a lot less than you do as well. Its a well known fact that per hour of work, they French are amongst the most productive in the world, ahead of Americans.

The difference is that for some (uknown to me) reason Amreicans seem to prefer working to enjoying life. Instead of spending more time with friends/family/hobbies, they put in overtime so they can earn a few grand more per year, so they can spend a bit more at walmart buying crap they don't really need.

Americans always like to boast of how much they work, calling Europeans lazy etc, but the fact of the matter is, they just have their priorities straight.

And don't think I am just bashing Americans, Canada is the same in this respect.
 
They also work a lot less than you do as well. Its a well known fact that per hour of work, they French are amongst the most productive in the world, ahead of Americans.

A statistic that really doesn't mean much as the average French person works much less than the average American. A worker who works more hours will have diminishing returns on his later work hours. If an longer hours worker is anywhere near a less hours worker in productivity/hour, then that doesn't look too well on that worker that is working less, IMO.
 
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
They also work a lot less than you do as well. Its a well known fact that per hour of work, they French are amongst the most productive in the world, ahead of Americans.

A statistic that really doesn't mean much as the average French person works much less than the average American. A worker who works more hours will have diminishing returns on his later work hours. If an longer hours worker is anywhere near a less hours worker in productivity/hour, then that doesn't look too well on that worker that is working less, IMO.

That is true, but in order to make the statement that the Frencgh aren't good workers, you would have to know the precise amount that the returns diminish in, which you don't. But consider this graph. The French produce .935 of american output with .82 of the hours worked? Does that imply americans or the french are better workers? Neither - if you were to plot a logarithmic curve over this graph (knowing that the law of diminishing returns is logarithmic in nature) it would imply that Germans, French and Americans are pretty much equal (same cannot be said of others).

Of course, the whole point of my post was not to start yet another French-America bashing/pissing contest, but to point out that the French (and other europeans) are not poor because they are incapable/inferior/socialist etc. They simply make the consious choice to work less, earn less, but enjoy life more (As you can see from the graph, they have approx. 1hr per day more free time than Americans).
 
Originally posted by: bsobel
19.6 tax on everything.

Yea, but no income tax. I'd trade the 45% I'm paying now for 19.6 on absolutely everything in a heartbeat (short of moving to the EU 😉)

That's why the tax is so high there, not because of socialism. You should have bought a clue why you was there, instead coming back with some half cocked conservative nonsense.

Oh and Happy New Year 😛
 
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: bsobel
19.6 tax on everything.

Yea, but no income tax. I'd trade the 45% I'm paying now for 19.6 on absolutely everything in a heartbeat (short of moving to the EU 😉)

That's why the tax is so high there, not because of socialism. You should have bought a clue why you was there, instead coming back with some half cocked conservative nonsense.

Oh and Happy New Year 😛

I posted what I experienced, nothing more, nothing less. (well, with a nice friendly jab thrown in for good measure) 🙂

And did I mention 1.20 euro for a LITER of gasoline?

happy new year!
 
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Gravity
Don't they have a 30 hour work week too?

No. France has/had a 35hr/week, but they are considering abandoning it.

yep

there is a big chance that it's going back to a 38h/40 work week

Yeah, I was reading that workers feel more stressed because rather than work less, employers are pushing them to complete the same amount of work in less hours.
 
[/quote]I thought Value Added Taxes were a Republican's wet dream? They want to move this country to VAT or Flat tax system. [/quote]

Dunno, but unless they repeal the Sixteenth Amendment first (the one authorizing the income tax) I won't support it. Unless and until we permanently drive a stake through the heart of the income tax and kill it for good the last thing I want is to put into play a second tax system. I don't want the Feds to even have the thought of trying to sell us on a "replacement" tax system which they'll simply use in a later bait and switch to bring back the income tax as well.
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: bsobel
19.6 tax on everything.

Yea, but no income tax. I'd trade the 45% I'm paying now for 19.6 on absolutely everything in a heartbeat (short of moving to the EU 😉)

That's why the tax is so high there, not because of socialism. You should have bought a clue why you was there, instead coming back with some half cocked conservative nonsense.

Oh and Happy New Year 😛

I posted what I experienced, nothing more, nothing less. (well, with a nice friendly jab thrown in for good measure) 🙂

And did I mention 1.20 euro for a LITER of gasoline?

happy new year!


Just messin with you guy. Your a good man Spidey 🙂
 
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: bsobel
19.6 tax on everything.

Yea, but no income tax. I'd trade the 45% I'm paying now for 19.6 on absolutely everything in a heartbeat (short of moving to the EU 😉)

That's why the tax is so high there, not because of socialism. You should have bought a clue why you was there, instead coming back with some half cocked conservative nonsense.

Oh and Happy New Year 😛

I posted what I experienced, nothing more, nothing less. (well, with a nice friendly jab thrown in for good measure) 🙂

And did I mention 1.20 euro for a LITER of gasoline?

happy new year!


Just messin with you guy. Your a good man Spidey 🙂

thanks man, just got back from a party and blew sh!t up in my back yard (fireworks, mortars, repeaters) I love this country.

but c'mon! 1.20 euro for a liter of gas?
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: bsobel
19.6 tax on everything.

Yea, but no income tax. I'd trade the 45% I'm paying now for 19.6 on absolutely everything in a heartbeat (short of moving to the EU 😉)

That's why the tax is so high there, not because of socialism. You should have bought a clue why you was there, instead coming back with some half cocked conservative nonsense.

Oh and Happy New Year 😛

I posted what I experienced, nothing more, nothing less. (well, with a nice friendly jab thrown in for good measure) 🙂

And did I mention 1.20 euro for a LITER of gasoline?

happy new year!


Just messin with you guy. Your a good man Spidey 🙂

thanks man, just got back from a party and blew sh!t up in my back yard (fireworks, mortars, repeaters) I love this country.

but c'mon! 1.20 euro for a liter of gas?

I think this in particular is an example of social policy - less fuel usage, smaller cars, less traffic congestion etc.

In any case, the most relevant statistic to this thread is Total Public Spending as % of GDP (including all levels of government). I can't find these right now but from memory, they stand somethign like :
US 34-35%
Canada 36-37%
France 39-40%
Scandinavian countries: ~43-44


 
Originally posted by: Martin
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: bsobel
19.6 tax on everything.

Yea, but no income tax. I'd trade the 45% I'm paying now for 19.6 on absolutely everything in a heartbeat (short of moving to the EU 😉)

That's why the tax is so high there, not because of socialism. You should have bought a clue why you was there, instead coming back with some half cocked conservative nonsense.

Oh and Happy New Year 😛

I posted what I experienced, nothing more, nothing less. (well, with a nice friendly jab thrown in for good measure) 🙂

And did I mention 1.20 euro for a LITER of gasoline?

happy new year!


Just messin with you guy. Your a good man Spidey 🙂

thanks man, just got back from a party and blew sh!t up in my back yard (fireworks, mortars, repeaters) I love this country.

but c'mon! 1.20 euro for a liter of gas?

I think this in particular is an example of social policy - less fuel usage, smaller cars, less traffic congestion etc.

Not to mention lower pollution and beeing a little less in the claws of the oil producers 😛
 
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Thats a poor example because you were hit up at tourist areas. Beer in France or anywhere in Europe does not cost $6.

Bullsh!t. I used to pay $5+ for beer in France back in '92-93 (pints -- .5L was more). Depends on what you buy. If you stick to Stella, you'll probably get away with cheaper, but anything decent is going to run around there especially with the exchange rate as insane as it is right now.
 
Just save your receipts and get your VAT back at the airport when you fly home.

Or, search around for less expensive restaurants. I would imagine Paris is like NYC or SF...expensive restaurants abound. When I was in Belgium and Germany, we found a typical dinner to be comparable to a decent dinner here in the States.
 
A lot of the high cost was because the dollar is depressed compared to the Euro. Coupled with the fact you were shopping/eating in tourist areas (high priced everywhere), and the effect of a high sales tax (VAT) because of no other major taxes explains the sticker shock you faced.
 
Originally posted by: Thump553
A lot of the high cost was because the dollar is depressed compared to the Euro. Coupled with the fact you were shopping/eating in tourist areas (high priced everywhere), and the effect of a high sales tax (VAT) because of no other major taxes explains the sticker shock you faced.

well I stayed in a very small country house - the tourist areas were unbelievable.

But true about the dollar slipping against the euro. If the exchange rate was 1 it would only be "moderately" expensive. With it running about 1.36 it was outrageous.

In fact I was just reading an article in wall street about how euporeans are flocking to america for all the great deals. pair of jeans is 100 USD over there, 25 over here.
 
I guess the VAT makes things expensive for tourists but not the locals. If the VAT replaces the income tax, then you are basically paying part of some French guys income tax. That's not really very good for the tourist economy, is it?
 
Originally posted by: Triumph
I guess the VAT makes things expensive for tourists but not the locals. If the VAT replaces the income tax, then you are basically paying part of some French guys income tax. That's not really very good for the tourist economy, is it?

As Conjur suggsted, these types of Taxes are usually redeemable for Tourists.
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: bsobel
19.6 tax on everything.

Yea, but no income tax. I'd trade the 45% I'm paying now for 19.6 on absolutely everything in a heartbeat (short of moving to the EU 😉)

True, but the US encourages you to deduct those taxes - like owning property, giving to charity, etc.

Look, I'm not doing any france bashing. It was an eye opening experience on expenses and taxes that's all. I've spoken to many german's on my travels and they think the US is expensive.

also the dropping value of the USD vs dollar mean tons of people coming to the US to purchase goods.

Seems more like a warning against a national sales tax more than against socialism, but that's just me.
 
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Triumph
I guess the VAT makes things expensive for tourists but not the locals. If the VAT replaces the income tax, then you are basically paying part of some French guys income tax. That's not really very good for the tourist economy, is it?

As Conjur suggsted, these types of Taxes are usually redeemable for Tourists.

Really? So when I was in England I could have saved my receipts from dinner and gotten the VAT tax back? If so, how would I have done that?
 
Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Triumph
I guess the VAT makes things expensive for tourists but not the locals. If the VAT replaces the income tax, then you are basically paying part of some French guys income tax. That's not really very good for the tourist economy, is it?

As Conjur suggsted, these types of Taxes are usually redeemable for Tourists.

Really? So when I was in England I could have saved my receipts from dinner and gotten the VAT tax back? If so, how would I have done that?

there was a place at CDG (paris airport) that I could have done it. It was a shame realy because I knew I blew over 500 euro.
 
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